Civ4 Realism Mod (Extended Gameplay and tweaks)

[Littlelisa]

I only just started to play this game, and found it far to fast so was glad when seeing a mod like this.

So ive not even completed game yet but started using this mod and im impressed.

Sure at the start its a little slow, you have to actualy decide on what techs you need, not just research them all.
With the slow development but fast unit building, wars started early. I was begged into battle against greece, and i accepted as they were far off, but that annoyed the russians who were my neighbours.
So building up a massive force of axemen and horse archers i invaded them before they could me and reduced them to 1 city.

I then made peace as i was low on troops and didnt want to over extend, all the new cities gave me an advantage for a while, but with no razing you have to actualy plan, as most area was jungle the cost to maintain was allot and started to put a drain on me till i planned cities better. And fact i didnt have ability to build villages yet.

The Ai seems to act more aggesive as they have larger forces, i finaly made contact with the other continent who were more advanced due to better land and they instantly started to threaten me and wiped out one of the weaker civs.

So mainly just wanted to say i love your mod. Everything seems fine so far, im at about 1200AD, so aint tested it with more modern tech yet.

Cant wait for Expendable resources, they should spark more wars as they should, when you run out of horses or such as see your neighbours still have some
And cant wait to see how you manage Natural disasters.

Would be nice to see religion cause more tension though.

 

[GrandMatt]

Can u include a full list of the mod changes in the first post

 

[evirus]

Hey guys!! Sorry, I've been cranking the mod lately and not respond, but I've been watching the posts! 0.7 is almost ready, it should be good to go by monday morning.

Anyways, now down to it! I love the discussion thats been going on, I've been reading it all very carefully and taking notes along the way Im glad the playtesting has been going overall good, and that everyone is responding well to the changes im making. The next version has more tweaks (of course), but also some of the bigger changes we've all been discussing here. You'll just have to wait and see what I got done this weekend! You would hate to see my working directories, I have 3 copies of civ running multiple sets of python code AND more backup directories

Anyways, down to brass tackles here:

ANYONE HAVING SAVED GAME LOADING ISSUES
Heres the deal. There are some bugs with mod loading, customAssets, and saved games. Here are my recommendations:

#1. If your running another mod in customAssets besides mine, let me know what it is. If some are common, I will include them.

#2. some mods dont mix well. We all edit the same files, and my mod specifically is a major overhaul of nearly every single XML file there is. So, first things first; If your getting errors, backup your customAssets folder, and then delete it (dont worry, civ4 will re-create it empty).

#3. Next, if that doesnt work, delete your Civ4 Cache folder.

#4. NEXT, if that doesnt work, again make sure you have no other mods in customAssets If you are using the 'Load mod' option every single time you load the game, edit your Civ4 ini file (My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\CivilizationIV.ini). Replace this line:
Mod = 0
with this line:
Mod = Mods\Realism

if *NONE* of the above works, post here and I we can get together and work it out here, on aim, or via email.


Next up, answers!

To ICBM lovers everywhere - Major nuke havock coming with the next version! YAR!

Lord_all_Mighty - I've been watching the disease thread in the main forum since it first started; I liked the idea and plan on implementing it, but Im trying to keep my plate not-to-full, and have it filed for "when i have time to copy and paste alot" work. Basically, like everyone has said, its a modification to a new religion. Add the religion, make its bonus's negatives, etc; The problem comes in on ridding it, building modifications, and abolishing it with units. This is all custom python code I need to do, so I havn't implemented anything for it yet.

JakeCourtney - I will look into it and see if I need to wait for the SDK for it or not


Narcio & Krafweerk - Im glad you guys are around haha. Historical debates on everything im doing is a good thing. I get a headache from crunching dates and detailed history (history channel ftw), just let me know what the verdict is okay? :goodjob: Narcio, I have some modifications to the civics simulating cross-border technological/cultural influences with the free market civics etc. As for the tech trading, I *totally* agree. I usually play with it off tbh, until I can dink with it.


Thanks for all the great input guys!! After the next version release, we need to get into more detailed simantics of gameplay!

eh weekly updates are just fine by me, gives us more time to "test" your mod

 

[DickieBear]

The game just crashed again, so I decided to let you know how things were going with your mod. Your main gripe with the main game was that techs were researched too fast, but I just finished researching the last tech at 1729 AD. I didn't notice until then that you took out future tech, so I just dumped all of my money into culture. Anyway, having nuclear reactors in 1729 doesn't seem like what you were going for, so I thought I'd let you know. By the way, I was playing on Noble with no tech trading. With tech trading, I imagine I could've finished sooner. I love the work you've done, and I can't wait for version 0.7.

 

[Krafweerk]

I suggest you read over your material a little more, this is one article I just found on short notice in regards to some of your claims:

http://www.kasprzyk.demon.co.uk/www/WW2.html

The Polish army had built and designed some of their own tanks that were quite effective. It was more a matter of numbers and the stages in modernization that Poland was in, coupled with the fact that Russia and Germany simultaneously attacked Poland that caused the German panzer to roll over them, as you say.

I would call them armored cars, not tanks. I dont even know if light tank is a good description of them. Several mms of armor to stop rifle caliber rounds, and a swivel, handcrank, or electric turret with a gun in it, doesnt nessacarily mean its a "tank". I guess the name still fits the definition, but not the spirit of a "tank".

This above article says Poland had about 180 tanks at the onset of the German advance. Poland's airforce was 420 aircraft compared to Germany's 2000 that they used. Though they were highly outnumbered, they did still indeed have tanks and aircraft. I'm not sure whether or not Poland actually had her own supplies of oil. If what you say is true, and Poland didn't, the fact that she still built tanks and aircraft would suggest that you are incorrect about a country not being able to build such devices with no supply of their own.

Most of polands tanks were imported. Some of them Czech like the 38T. Some of them french or finnish like the Wz19...they built thier own as well. I still would classify them as armored cars, as none of them were capable of stopping a 37mm round fired from any of light or medium panzers and pak AT guns. Even the 20mm autocannons on 232s, PanzerIs and IIs could penetrate the armor of anything poland had.

Without a large supply of materials (and im sure poland had some of its own oil, oil is everywhere, but not in a signifigant amount that they could survive without importing it.) like oil, steel, and skilled labour, you arent going to be able to research and design new tanks....what you CAN do, is purchase the design, import the materials to produce a factory, tool that factory for that design, and then churn out as many as your own resources can handle (which in poland, was apparently 180 tanks its not like they didnt know Hitler was comming) Since global buisiness was a new thing back then, its fairly likely the course of events was something like: Company in poland presents an investment plan to a tank manufacturer somewhere else in the world, and uses the investment capital to build the factory, which will turn out so many tanks a year, and some of those tanks will be being manufactured for the investor.

Germany used alot of those kinds of things to get around the treaty limitations. Private buisinesses were building an army...not germany.

Also, what you imply about the Czechs is inaccurate. Here is a quote from this site:

http://users.swing.be/tanks.edito/edito/3403.html

"The workhorse of the German Panzerwaffe at the start of the war was neither the Panzer III nor the Panzer IV, but the Czech tanks. The Panzer 35 (t) and the Panzer 38 (t) made up one quarter of the total strength in tanks in 1940-41."

Thats a hell of a lot of Czech tanks that the Germans used in their army.

Because germany facilitated that. It was also key in building up strength before actually breaking the treaty. Though it turned out that the tanks werent really all that great. They were all replaced within a year. Though the 38T remained in service throughout the war in police units, and eventually became the design for the Hetzer I believe...

But the overall point is that it wasnt possible for Poland to design a Stug, or Tiger, or Panther, or really much of anything. Let alone mass produce it. All that infrastructure is dependant on resources...if you dont have them....you may have the capability to design and build a few of them, really bad mock offs each one, but youre not capable of produce a number or quality thats signifigant enough to warrant being able to build high technology in mass without the appropiate resources...not even building them really really really slowly.

 

[Pfeffersack]

The hoover help for the Pacifism civic says "+125% birthrate" and "100% percent birthrate with state religion".Does this mean +225% birthrate in cities with state religion or is it just a relict from the vanilla game in the help?

 

[evirus]

ok i must ask.... what the heck is venilla

 

[Pfeffersack]

The unmodded game.

 

[Krafweerk]

ok i must ask.... what the heck is venilla

Vanilla = plain; ordinary; unchanged

Vanilla civ4 would be civ4 without any mods or patches other than offical ones.

 

[Lightzy]

I disagree.
I think changes to specific religions ARE changes just for the sake of change.

It's the same as if you decided to give every civilization more unique bonuses to differentiate them.
It may even be balanced, but it'll be AOE, not CIV.
And not anything to be tauted as a 'realism mod'.


Oh, and should definitely add a toggle to switch on and off the ability to raze cities.
I personally would play with it off, because I DO appreciate the added strategic element (makes it that sometimes its actually better for you to coexist with someone simply because those cities would do you more harm than good), but I suppose many would lament the lack of choice here, and it doesn't do to alienate people over such a minor thing

 

[belgradar]

ok so i cleared my cache and droped the mod in the lionhead main mod directory and i use the click on save game to load mod. and i am able to save and load my mod games. thanks fo rthe help here and the nice person wo enabled the serch fuction on the fouroms again.

 

[Youri]

The hoover help for the Pacifism civic says "+125% birthrate" and "100% percent birthrate with state religion".Does this mean +225% birthrate in cities with state religion or is it just a relict from the vanilla game in the help?

I'm using Pacifism now and it's +225% from this civic alone now, so my total becomes 325%, not counting any other buildings.

Even with 6 units in all my cities and an offensive force, this is really worth it, especially considering I have Caste System several World Wonders.

I'm using the civic (can't remember it's name) that reduces my regular unit upkeep to reduce the expenses a bit, and the +1 happiness/soldier civic.

 

[Viktor82]

This is a nice mod, it looks promising, I'm sure it will develop even better with later versions. Can there be more types of civics added into Civ 4? Add more various stuff like technology, buildings, resources and this will become a perfect mod. Ofcourse everything within the borders of realism. Great work btw!

 

[Pfeffersack]

(...)
Oh, and should definitely add a toggle to switch on and off the ability to raze cities.
I personally would play with it off, because I DO appreciate the added strategic element (makes it that sometimes its actually better for you to coexist with someone simply because those cities would do you more harm than good), but I suppose many would lament the lack of choice here, and it doesn't do to alienate people over such a minor thing

You have misunderstood him:

- No City Razing defaulted to true. I dont like this option. You should be forced to deal with a capture.

It just means that the option is now checked, when you enter the setup screen.You are still free the uncheck it and to raze again...

I'm using Pacifism now and it's +225% from this civic alone now, so my total becomes 325%, not counting any other buildings.

Even with 6 units in all my cities and an offensive force, this is really worth it, especially considering I have Caste System several World Wonders.

I'm using the civic (can't remember it's name) that reduces my regular unit upkeep to reduce the expenses a bit, and the +1 happiness/soldier civic.

Hmm, I haven't tried it...but my feeling says this is a bit too much.Why? I never had the impression that Pacifism is too weak under standard rules.

 

[Unspeakable Horror]

I agree, playing Gandhi with world wonders and national wonders I had a Great leader every 10-20 turns, I think it´s a bit too much.

 

[Samuelson]

I definitely think people should definitely be able to build multiple improvements on a tile. Because if you think about it, farms go on for miles but water mills take only a few yards, so why cant you build both? This might not apply for all improvements, but it would make the game a lot better. Also I think what would be really great is if modern artillary could fire about 10 spaces away multiple times in one turn in a Civ 3 type artillary way. It would still be colateral damage. This would make it effective just firing on enemy cities that still arent in your range of sight.

My final sugestion and greatest one is to make a much larger emphasis on trade routes. Throughout history, even as early as the Greeks and before, trading over sea and land (but mostly sea because it is cheaper and faster) has made great profits and has been the main reason for growth in empires. Harbors should be able to be constructed as early as sailing, and should be connected to the rest of your empire upon construction. For each city another city has a direct trade connection with (cities that are within say, 10 squares of a city and have a road to or cities that are within maybe 30 squares of a city with a harbor and have a harbor them selves) they should generate 5 gold profit every turn.

That's all my suggestions for now!

 

[Littlelisa]

No City Razing

It forces you to be carefull and not over extend and you have to deal with your conquests. So instead of just razing city after city and weakening the enemy while you move in and build your own city, you have to try and hold onto it so they dont quickly retake and then deal with the extra costs.

So its good idea not to pillage the area for money and to starve them out beforehand.

Though one bad part is, even when you conquer a city, its often reduced to a tiny influence area. So your new population starts to starve and sometimes even reverts to another civ.

I found that even though i was destroying 1 civ, my peacefull neighbour gained more land by their expanding borders than i did from the new cities, is there a way to mod captured cities so they least start with some of their previous culture or a set amount?
Its annoying to end up with a tiny 3x3 square border or even less while your neighbour who did no work ends up with huge stretches of new land.
Often you have no land for hammers to build culture gaining buildings and no food sources so everyone starves.

 

[JakeCourtney]

So how hard is it to find the right balance between the epic feel and and correct gamespeed. We should be able to figure it out sooner or later.

 

[Lightzy]

Ehheh, yes, I did missunderstand.
Sorry, it's almost always about 3am by the time I'm done working and get down to posting here My head kinda swims..



And yes, I thought the exact same thing about trade routes.
trade routes were like, the main arteries of empires and kingdoms.. Cities situated on the major trade routes became fabulously rich (and therefor much coveted and very well fortified) even though they might have not even had many resources to trade themselves.

It might be abstracted in the game itself, but if were into creating realism here, then at least in the earlier ages, trade routes should play a VERY important role in economics!
Certain cities in certain locations should be desirable regardless of what resources they actually have, but just because their location is somehow given importance..

What I'm saying is, there should be some way to take important trade routes into consideration, but for the life of me I can't see how its possible..
I don't agree with samuelsons suggestion because.. well, you got dozens and dozens of cities in this game.. its all so dense. you'd get a huge surplus of gold.

I suppose you could create some cumbersome system like..
If you have a resource trade agreement with 2 different civs, and have a city connected by roads to both civs, you'd get 5 extra gold a day (not per city. global). or something.

Or (and this is really far reaching), you could decide to cripple economy much more for every new city, thus forcing the player (and AI, if you can do it) to expand much more deliberately, taking great pains to place cities 'just so' and preferrably in a place where more trade will flow through them.
And then ... hm. and then jolly well find a way to simulate the existence of trade routes! hah!

I'm not even sure there's hooks/triggers for stuff like that anyway.

this is game-breaking material, this.

 

[Viggo Smyg]

I found what i was looking for in your mod! Thanks alot, i have just played it in multiplayer and it works fine. Havent been over the year 1300 AD yet so i dont know about the modern units. But in the early years i think the axmen have got too many advantages. You never build any swordsmen because they are crushed by axmen (+50% melee & +50& swordsmen). And maybe the knights come too soon, you will never get an advantage with your elephants because knights will join in the fight about the same time.
Thanks for a great mod, looking forward too the next update.