Civ4 Reimagined
- Thread starter Team NP
- Start date
hey guys,
im started a multiplayer game,
its nice so far.
few notes:
-i cant attack a human player directly - unit just goes over the other human unit - so to declare war: alt button and click on the human civ.
-python error using PLE , hovering on a unit pops a py error.
-lots of copper
- Buddhism wont be researched by ai - it leads to no where, so ai wont learnt it.
-python error on unique power screen shift back to the other options
im started a multiplayer game,
its nice so far.
few notes:
-i cant attack a human player directly - unit just goes over the other human unit - so to declare war: alt button and click on the human civ.
-python error using PLE , hovering on a unit pops a py error.
-lots of copper
- Buddhism wont be researched by ai - it leads to no where, so ai wont learnt it.
-python error on unique power screen shift back to the other options
Last edited:
Thank you for playing and the feedback! Awesome that people try it in Multiplayer. We rarely play with more than 2 people.
If you are trying to enter another players borders you are asked to declare war. When you move a unit on top of another, you are not. I would have thought this is normal BtS behavior. I cannot recall changing anything there.
Can you upload the PythonErr.log? I don't get any errors when activating PLE but we don't use it usually.
Buddhism gets researched by the AI around the time we want it to in a full game with 18 players. The meditation tech is also a requirement for Philosophy so it is not a complete dead end (the AI would still research it anyway because of other benefits).
If you are trying to enter another players borders you are asked to declare war. When you move a unit on top of another, you are not. I would have thought this is normal BtS behavior. I cannot recall changing anything there.
Can you upload the PythonErr.log? I don't get any errors when activating PLE but we don't use it usually.
Buddhism gets researched by the AI around the time we want it to in a full game with 18 players. The meditation tech is also a requirement for Philosophy so it is not a complete dead end (the AI would still research it anyway because of other benefits).
hey,
i play it just me and a friend
im ona relief from my mod dev for now..
ill do aprint screen of the error (i changed some bug options).
Buddhism- seems werid, small map 7 civs, ai skips it, religion wont be founded 200 turns in.
anyway,
we are struggling vs the ai very hard to attack.
no heath in our cities, maybe a civic with some could help.
on small map, we mostly have 1 resource of a type , so not much trade.
but the ai if kinda fun, i like the deals it offers, they're not bad.
civics are quite nice, cool options. interesting take to make all governments high upkeep.
one ai thing i saw,
3 ais are at war with my friend, all stood on the same tile.
together a mighty force, along, they cant take human city.
myabe - ai should think along with more ais on the tile, the attack is worth, since,
one of they ai would take the city.
that takes me back to the movement not declaring war on humans.
seems same rule applies to AI. i think i would prefer, that a question of declare war should be asked for every unit on unit move from different nations, in case of no, than unit on unit is ok.
i might look at the code.
i play it just me and a friend
im ona relief from my mod dev for now..
ill do aprint screen of the error (i changed some bug options).
Buddhism- seems werid, small map 7 civs, ai skips it, religion wont be founded 200 turns in.
maybe im not sure, its probably an easy fix on the moveinto function somewhere.
anyway,
we are struggling vs the ai
very hard to attack.no heath in our cities, maybe a civic with some could help.
on small map, we mostly have 1 resource of a type , so not much trade.
but the ai if kinda fun, i like the deals it offers, they're not bad.
civics are quite nice, cool options. interesting take to make all governments high upkeep.
one ai thing i saw,
3 ais are at war with my friend, all stood on the same tile.
together a mighty force, along, they cant take human city.
myabe - ai should think along with more ais on the tile, the attack is worth, since,
one of they ai would take the city.
that takes me back to the movement not declaring war on humans.
seems same rule applies to AI. i think i would prefer, that a question of declare war should be asked for every unit on unit move from different nations, in case of no, than unit on unit is ok.
i might look at the code.
Attachments
Last edited:
I just finished my first game with this mod and it was very interesting. I really appreciated a lot of the design decisions and it opens up several mod-mod options. My game settings were Noble, 18 players, Continents, Low sea level, Normal speed, No tech trading, No goodie huts. I rolled Charlemagne and my starting spot was middle of the continent. There ended up being 2 major continents. Here are some of my thoughts:
* The number of national wonders per city was unclear. The tool tip would say 1 allowed, but I could build more.
* The hotel building was unclear. It would show the only benefit as unhealthy but once built it would add other benefits.
* I don’t like the nerfing of rivers. I’m ok with removing the default commerce, but allow a building to add it back. I also missed levees adding a hammer. Rivers should be the best settling spots by far.
* I loved using archers as collateral units, but this doesn’t make sense once musketeers arrive. There should be a bombard unit at gunpowder. Overall, great job nerfing collateral and making city assault more realistic.
* The AI and the tech rate stagnated during the renaissance. I won a domination victory in the 1940s but the AIs and I were behind, especially the AIs. I am suspicious that the number of AIs reduces the available land, which reduces the tech rate in the later eras, along with no tech trading. Pacing was good until the 1400s, but then it fell off.
* The progressive trait, replacing spirituals no anarchy, seemed very powerful. With all the new civics I was really able to abuse the system, especially the military civics.
* I didn’t see a good use for the city state civic. The 100% penalty for city maintenance seemed to outweigh the benefits.
* Ideologies? Couldn’t figure out how they worked. It appeared to be passive, I never intentionally chose one.
Thanks for all the work on this fun mod!
* The number of national wonders per city was unclear. The tool tip would say 1 allowed, but I could build more.
* The hotel building was unclear. It would show the only benefit as unhealthy but once built it would add other benefits.
* I don’t like the nerfing of rivers. I’m ok with removing the default commerce, but allow a building to add it back. I also missed levees adding a hammer. Rivers should be the best settling spots by far.
* I loved using archers as collateral units, but this doesn’t make sense once musketeers arrive. There should be a bombard unit at gunpowder. Overall, great job nerfing collateral and making city assault more realistic.
* The AI and the tech rate stagnated during the renaissance. I won a domination victory in the 1940s but the AIs and I were behind, especially the AIs. I am suspicious that the number of AIs reduces the available land, which reduces the tech rate in the later eras, along with no tech trading. Pacing was good until the 1400s, but then it fell off.
* The progressive trait, replacing spirituals no anarchy, seemed very powerful. With all the new civics I was really able to abuse the system, especially the military civics.
* I didn’t see a good use for the city state civic. The 100% penalty for city maintenance seemed to outweigh the benefits.
* Ideologies? Couldn’t figure out how they worked. It appeared to be passive, I never intentionally chose one.
Thanks for all the work on this fun mod!
Last edited:
Hello, I am very happy with this mod. It's fantastic!
Albeit, not without some unbalance still.
I am using Central Planning and it is OP. So many bonuses, but only -10% on ratios! Ok, others give bonuses, so there is a fall, but it doesn't outweigh somewhat the bonuses!
It could be fixed by making the resource ratio to -50% or -66%; believe me, it is not exaggerated. I am coming from a post-soviet country, and I must tell you- that's about how that was! So you woud get all those hammers and gold and food, but would possibly struggle a bit with shortages in the populace resulting in hunger and discontent. Also, the "no production mali" should be taken away to complete the effect with slower production. THEN I should have peace
Also, Free Market is very weak by comparison. No reason to switch there.
It is annoying me so that I would fix it myself, if I knew where to look for it (once modded a variable in Civ4 ).
Other issue is AI visibly slowing with tech development (vel Cruiser76), but also struggling with improving tiles and building more buildings and National Wonders. I also haven't seen a foreign Corp on my soil and almost no missionaries. Also enemy Great Merchant sitting in my city for an eternity... #BUG
Maybe it has something to do with us all playing on Prince or Noble? Still, I researched 3religions and built almost all World Wonders. Tech Trading is on, no brokering, unlimited workers, raging barbarians.
Also, I don't like so many buildings destroyed on conquest.
Greets!
Albeit, not without some unbalance still.
I am using Central Planning and it is OP. So many bonuses, but only -10% on ratios! Ok, others give bonuses, so there is a fall, but it doesn't outweigh somewhat the bonuses!
It could be fixed by making the resource ratio to -50% or -66%; believe me, it is not exaggerated. I am coming from a post-soviet country, and I must tell you- that's about how that was! So you woud get all those hammers and gold and food, but would possibly struggle a bit with shortages in the populace resulting in hunger and discontent. Also, the "no production mali" should be taken away to complete the effect with slower production. THEN I should have peace
Also, Free Market is very weak by comparison. No reason to switch there.It is annoying me so that I would fix it myself, if I knew where to look for it (once modded a variable in Civ4
).Other issue is AI visibly slowing with tech development (vel Cruiser76), but also struggling with improving tiles and building more buildings and National Wonders. I also haven't seen a foreign Corp on my soil and almost no missionaries. Also enemy Great Merchant sitting in my city for an eternity... #BUG
Maybe it has something to do with us all playing on Prince or Noble? Still, I researched 3religions and built almost all World Wonders. Tech Trading is on, no brokering, unlimited workers, raging barbarians.
Also, I don't like so many buildings destroyed on conquest.
Greets!
Last edited:
It is annoying me so that I would fix it myself, if I knew where to look for it (once modded a variable in Civ4
It's in the civicinfos.xml file as <iBonusRatioModifier>-10</iBonusRatioModifier>.
I agree with you re: Central Planning. That combined with Industrialism is very powerful.
I would boost Capitalism by doubling the production speed of banks. Free Market also needs a boost. Perhaps make corporations more powerful under Free Market by increasing their yields, or adding a percentage boost to commerce for all cities, maybe 25%.
Another thought is move the 100% trade route bonus to Free Market (seems more appropriate) and give the flat commerce bonus to Capitalism, so commerce from Capitalism v. hammers from Industrialism.
Last edited:
Stonehenge is not buildable right now. We might reintroduce it later on though.
Glad you like it.
And thanks for spelling out your settings, that helps put feedback into perspective. Seems you are pretty close to the "official" settings. We didn't change that tooltip from BTS. "National Wonder: 1 left" supposedly means "you can only build 1 more of this building in your cities", and not "you only build 1 more national wonder in your city". As in BTS, the limit is 2 national wonders per city. But I can totally see how the tooltip is confusing.
Agreed, that could be improved. Meanwhile, you can activate "Bug Mod options" -> "City screen" -> "Building actual effects" to show effective commerce gain (shows as "Net effect: +4 gold").
I very much agree with you from a realism point of view. We've made that change a long time ago, but I think our problem was that with 18 players on a map, some are bound to start in relatively river-less areas (usually large plains), which proved to be a massive starting disadvantage we were unable to compensate.
Good point, cannons were invented before muskets. Only problem is that with crossbowmen there's already one collateral damage unit during medieval times, and some other stuff would have to be shuffled as well. We'll have to think about this.
Interesting. No tech trading should not be the problem, we are always playing without tech trading and give civs that are behind a generous research bonus to compensate (that is, the more people have researched technology X, the easier it is for others to research technology X). Games can always be a bit different, but at ~1400 AD the age of colonization begins, which should give everyone new opportunities to settle, which in turn boosts the economy and research rate during that period. If you didn't play with a "new world" continent, that might explain this partly. But thanks for the feedback, we will keep an eye on tech progress at that time.
Great! ;-) Keep in mind though that everyone is able to freely switch religious civics, which reduces the value of progressive.
Personally, that is one of my favorite civics to abuse, if the position calls for it. +2 commerce per specialist can be really powerful when your economy is build around it. But it's not suitable for every position or playstyle, certainly.
Your ideology is determined by your civics. You can see the impact of all your civics at the bottom of the civic screen. The one with the highest value is your ideology. When you switch civics, you can see how those changes would impact your ideologies.
Thanks a lot!
Good news, we are removing the "no production mali" effect in the next version. With regards to your other comparisons to free market: don't forget that Central Planning has higher maintenance costs, no foreign corporation effects (the modern corporations are usually beneficial to you), and -1 commerce from towns (the best commercial improvement in the game). Central Planning is great if you have a production or espionage focus, but Free Market gives you a lot more commerce (and is available ~200 years earlier).I am using Central Planning and it is OP. So many bonuses, but only -10% on ratios! Ok, others give bonuses, so there is a fall, but it doesn't outweigh somewhat the bonuses!
It could be fixed by making the resource ratio to -50% or -66%; believe me, it is not exaggerated. I am coming from a post-soviet country, and I must tell you- that's about how that was! So you woud get all those hammers and gold and food, but would possibly struggle a bit with shortages in the populace resulting in hunger and discontent. Also, the "no production mali" should be taken away to complete the effect with slower production. THEN I should have peace
It is annoying me so that I would fix it myself, if I knew where to look for it (once modded a variable in Civ4
Sidenote: Foreign corporations won't come to you if you play Central Planning. ;-) With regards to missionaries and corporations games can be very different. Some AIs love spreading their religion, other's don't. Sometimes you gain five religions passively, sometimes you gain close to none.
Usually we get complains that the game is too hard/the AI too strong, so this is something new. :-D
It might be that the AI has problems defending themselves against raging barbarians, we never use that setting.
If you build almost all World Wonders I would advise you to crank up the difficulty, you are clearly not challenged enough.
Also, we really recommend to play with ~18 players. Otherwise, there are too many wonders for the AI, and the player has a much easier time with them.
This is one of our changes to make conquest a less dominant strategy. Conquering cities is still a very, very effective strategy, but with more destroyed buildings, the short-term gains are bit lower.
Last edited:
Any tips for a cultural victory? It looks like the threshold for legendary was raised to 75,000. I just played a game in which I was utterly dominating - building nearly every world wonder and pumping out culture in 3 cities. I was running 20% culture by the 1600s. Even after switching to the civic public welfare and raising the culture slider to 100% it was much faster to just tech out and build the space ship. I had only built cathedrals in my state religion - how does it work for building other cathedrals?
If the threshold had been 50,000, I would have hit it in all 3 cities around 1990, which seems about right. In all the games I have played no AI has come close to a cultural victory.
If the threshold had been 50,000, I would have hit it in all 3 cities around 1990, which seems about right. In all the games I have played no AI has come close to a cultural victory.
Thanks for the feedback. As for tips: Favor specialist economy over cottages, aim for Sistine Chapel, try to get Luxury Industry if you can get access to some of its resources, obviously go Representation/Republic/Public Welfare, the more Religions the merrier, prefer a civ that have a cultural leg-up (the "creative" trait might seem good, but +2 culture/turn turns out to be at most 800 culture during the course of a game. The best civs for cultural victory are those that give a cultural unique building, which are Ethopian, French (w/ Louis), and Native American). Culture-bombing with great artists is critical at the end, and remember that they give more culture the further the game progresses. Late in the game, keep the great artists in reserve until you have enough for a cultural victory.
This might be difficulty related. Cultural victory is less of a competition like the other victory conditions, and more a race against time. Whereas we scale the cost of technologies and science victory should happen roughly at the same time, cultural victory is unscaled. Obviously, an AI with bonuses can build cultural buildings faster, needs to divert less resources for military and so on. But I don't think they are particularily good at cultural victory anyway.
I'm afraid the 50% penalty for strategic resources is not something you can currently change with xml files. As a sidenote: We started playtests with 100% penalties but felt it was too harsh for strategic resources. Of course, YMMV.
I've been doing some more testing. Changed the starting CIV through the World Builder. You don't have to answer, Team NP, as I am using some outlandish start settings
It's a huge map for 11 players with also a huge rocky desert in the middle. Well, actually the almost round continent has a 2-3 cities wide strip of grassland/plains on the border and then this rocky desert with some floodplains in the whole center. The land is 80% of the map and there is a small island for 8-10 cities, settled usually not late by 1 AI. Marathon, no Brokering (but trading), Raging Barbarians, AI prefers war over diplomacy, City flipping after conquest, unlimited workers (but nobody, me included, keeps more than 8 anyway).
- The only player which is doing really fine is Zara Yaqob. Even though he starts on a rocky desert! (with flood plains though). On the 1st game AI's were on par with me with tech progress (until 'present days'). I gave out my techs with pleasure, but they were trading between themselves too I think). Zara Yaqob was high with progress and also he subdued 2 civs and after that took a lot of barbarian outposts with the leftover army. On the next game kept my techs to me, and some CIVs have archers vs riflemen.
- There is not too much wars, although there is at least one for 50% time. The AI does not have that much of army, just like 4 units per city.
- The AIs really do not adjust their worker force to the needs. I checked with WB in the late middle age and they had all just 4 workers. I believe AI is losing workers on the no man's land with a road through it (built by barb workers to connect their cities, but they use them to travel between far-off conquered settlements. But the barb fighters use them too). They often do not connect new resources for a long time in the new settlements and don't haste with regular improvements. They rather build roads and are happy to do that on your lands, sometimes parallel to yours.
- They are also neglecting building new settlements, sometimes in a small proximity, keeping to four or six. Because of that Mehmed II had it's land filled with farms, and a lot on plots not within a city proximity, but in the cultural borders, and roads on every plot.
- It seems like AI's are prioritizing war on weak CIVs over taking over a closer barb city, and then settling. The barbarians are rampaging, true, but they are reluctant to destroy improvements, instead go for a city with an army there. The AI does nothing to secure the borders, like building a fort anywhere (but this is not how the AI is able to behave, right?). Barbs take 1-3 cities in total per early game.
- AI still attempts to build World Wonders somewhat and in primary cities all the useful buildings, but neglects it in the newer cities. AI chooses civics very flexibly, adjusting for the current needs and goes for army-promoting only in the war behaviour. So I don't know why are so much behind. Destroyed workers? They AI's most often have friends and neutral CIVs, so I don't know what could be a different problem.
- changed corvee system to +2 food +1 health, and AI's use that often. I stick to later civics, but it's a way to help them a little I guess.
If you could point-out to me what further modifications I could play with, I would be back with more feedback Otherwise pls advise me if I should change some setting in the game-creation. I had not had my ass kicked on regular settings either (without AI favouring war), so it is not a solution, and I hate fake-difficulty in place of smart AI.
Greets!
It's a huge map for 11 players with also a huge rocky desert in the middle. Well, actually the almost round continent has a 2-3 cities wide strip of grassland/plains on the border and then this rocky desert with some floodplains in the whole center. The land is 80% of the map and there is a small island for 8-10 cities, settled usually not late by 1 AI. Marathon, no Brokering (but trading), Raging Barbarians, AI prefers war over diplomacy, City flipping after conquest, unlimited workers (but nobody, me included, keeps more than 8 anyway).
- The only player which is doing really fine is Zara Yaqob. Even though he starts on a rocky desert! (with flood plains though). On the 1st game AI's were on par with me with tech progress (until 'present days'). I gave out my techs with pleasure, but they were trading between themselves too I think). Zara Yaqob was high with progress and also he subdued 2 civs and after that took a lot of barbarian outposts with the leftover army. On the next game kept my techs to me, and some CIVs have archers vs riflemen.
- There is not too much wars, although there is at least one for 50% time. The AI does not have that much of army, just like 4 units per city.
- The AIs really do not adjust their worker force to the needs. I checked with WB in the late middle age and they had all just 4 workers. I believe AI is losing workers on the no man's land with a road through it (built by barb workers to connect their cities, but they use them to travel between far-off conquered settlements. But the barb fighters use them too). They often do not connect new resources for a long time in the new settlements and don't haste with regular improvements. They rather build roads and are happy to do that on your lands, sometimes parallel to yours.
- They are also neglecting building new settlements, sometimes in a small proximity, keeping to four or six. Because of that Mehmed II had it's land filled with farms, and a lot on plots not within a city proximity, but in the cultural borders, and roads on every plot.
- It seems like AI's are prioritizing war on weak CIVs over taking over a closer barb city, and then settling. The barbarians are rampaging, true, but they are reluctant to destroy improvements, instead go for a city with an army there. The AI does nothing to secure the borders, like building a fort anywhere (but this is not how the AI is able to behave, right?). Barbs take 1-3 cities in total per early game.
- AI still attempts to build World Wonders somewhat and in primary cities all the useful buildings, but neglects it in the newer cities. AI chooses civics very flexibly, adjusting for the current needs and goes for army-promoting only in the war behaviour. So I don't know why are so much behind. Destroyed workers? They AI's most often have friends and neutral CIVs, so I don't know what could be a different problem.
- changed corvee system to +2 food +1 health, and AI's use that often. I stick to later civics, but it's a way to help them a little I guess.
If you could point-out to me what further modifications I could play with, I would be back with more feedback
Otherwise pls advise me if I should change some setting in the game-creation. I had not had my ass kicked on regular settings either (without AI favouring war), so it is not a solution, and I hate fake-difficulty in place of smart AI.Greets!
Last edited:
I've been doing some more testing. Changed the starting CIV through the World Builder. You don't have to answer, Team NP, as I am using some outlandish start settings
It's a huge map for 11 players with also a huge rocky desert in the middle. Well, actually the almost round continent has a 2-3 cities wide strip of grassland/plains on the border and then this rocky desert with some floodplains in the whole center. The land is 80% of the map and there is a small island for 8-10 cities, settled usually not late by 1 AI. Marathon, no Brokering (but trading), Raging Barbarians, AI prefers war over diplomacy, City flipping after conquest, unlimited workers (but nobody, me included, keeps more than 8 anyway).
- The only player which is doing really fine is Zara Yaqob. Even though he starts on a rocky desert! (with flood plains though). On the 1st game AI's were on par with me with tech progress (until 'present days'). I gave out my techs with pleasure, but they were trading between themselves too I think). Zara Yaqob was high with progress and also he subdued 2 civs and after that took a lot of barbarian outposts with the leftover army. On the next game kept my techs to me, and some CIVs have archers vs riflemen.
- There is not too much wars, although there is at least one for 50% time. The AI does not have that much of army, just like 4 units per city.
- The AIs really do not adjust their worker force to the needs. I checked with WB in the late middle age and they had all just 4 workers. I believe AI is losing workers on the no man's land with a road through it (built by barb workers to connect their cities, but they use them to travel between far-off conquered settlements. But the barb fighters use them too). They often do not connect new resources for a long time in the new settlements and don't haste with regular improvements. They rather build roads and are happy to do that on your lands, sometimes parallel to yours.
- They are also neglecting building new settlements, sometimes in a small proximity, keeping to four or six. Because of that Mehmed II had it's land filled with farms, and a lot on plots not within a city proximity, but in the cultural borders, and roads on every plot.
- It seems like AI's are prioritizing war on weak CIVs over taking over a closer barb city, and then settling. The barbarians are rampaging, true, but they are reluctant to destroy improvements, instead go for a city with an army there. The AI does nothing to secure the borders, like building a fort anywhere (but this is not how the AI is able to behave, right?). Barbs take 1-3 cities in total per early game.
- AI still attempts to build World Wonders somewhat and in primary cities all the useful buildings, but neglects it in the newer cities. AI chooses civics very flexibly, adjusting for the current needs and goes for army-promoting only in the war behaviour. So I don't know why are so much behind. Destroyed workers? They AI's most often have friends and neutral CIVs, so I don't know what could be a different problem.
- changed corvee system to +2 food +1 health, and AI's use that often. I stick to later civics, but it's a way to help them a little I guess.
If you could point-out to me what further modifications I could play with, I would be back with more feedback
Greets!
In general I would suggest you to try our recommended settings which can be found on the first page of this thread. We always play with these settings and this heavily influenced how we design this mod. Since most of the AI improvements are universal I would assume that even with your settings the AI should do better than in vanilla BTS but especially tech pace could be very far off with tech brokering or trading. Marathon speed also usually helps the human player because AI is just bad at war in general. It also sounds like you should upper the difficulty, I would say Emperor is the first difficulty where the AI actually gets notable cheating bonuses at the start of the game. Before they just have very small advantages in terms of modifiers which is only fair considering Civ is such a complex game and the AI still kinda dumb unfortunately.
Regarding your points, its tough to comment on them because your settings are so different from what we usually play. When playing with raging barbarians, AI should build more units. I have not checked if they actually do this. Else you could upper the buildUnitProb in LeaderHeads.xml. AI not founding enough cities and building enough workers seems very weird too me because I never saw this before. Could be that they are really struggling on lower difficulties, I can have a look at this.
-edit-
another question: are you actually playing with the newest version 1.6 now?
Last edited:
