Civ4 Reimagined

[PPQ_Purple]

I just started playing this mod yesterday and I have to report some odd behavior:
1. No city razing is NOT turned on but I can't raze cities. Like the popup to ask me to do it just does not appear. This is a major problem.
2. I am playing using the Earth 2 map and I think the thing is bugged because it generated a completely flat plain with no water on it at all. The map also has very little hills and no copper or iron. I understand this is not your suggested map but still.
3. When looking at the victory condition score (end the game at 2050) is turned on even though I have not turned it on. This is a major problem as I hate this VC.
4. When looking at the game settings something called "no unique powers" is checked even though it does not appear anywhere in the custom game setup.
5. There appears to be some sort of mechanic to generate civs mid game. I noticed this because I have civs in my game that I did not manually add. Problem is that it generates not just duplicate civs but duplicate leaders. I have multiple Chinas and multiple Zara Jacovs in my game. This is minor but annoying.
6. I've been running slavery for like 1000 years now and have yet to get any slaves. Any idea what's happening there?

There is probably more but this is what I found.

I am attaching a save. The game was started using the custom game option. But only after I did the standard thing for any mod which is to run a single Play Now to clear any lingering settings. And it was done using a completely clean install of the mod. I newer used this mod before.

PS. As can be seen from the late date I am very much enjoying the mod in spite of all of this.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Yea, what ever it is that's stopping me from razing cities is really utterly gamebreaking for me. The AI just settles completely idiotic locations where the big city square misses half the resources that it could and I can't raze and resettle. I am giving this mod up.

 

[Team NP]

Possible bug: It appears that when you capture a city from a player who was using the totalitarianism civic that the two free spy specialists remain, regardless of the civic of the capturing player.

Thanks for the report, we will take a look.

1. No city razing is NOT turned on but I can't raze cities. Like the popup to ask me to do it just does not appear. This is a major problem.
---
Yea, what ever it is that's stopping me from razing cities is really utterly gamebreaking for me.

Cities that accumulated >100 culture in their lifetime cannot be razed. This is something we feel improves realism and balance. Sorry this is a gamebreaker for you.

3. When looking at the victory condition score (end the game at 2050) is turned on even though I have not turned it on. This is a major problem as I hate this VC.

Just checked, you can disable Time victory, in which case it doesn't show up as a victory condition. Maybe you misclicked/misremembered the settings when starting your game?

5. There appears to be some sort of mechanic to generate civs mid game. I noticed this because I have civs in my game that I did not manually add. Problem is that it generates not just duplicate civs but duplicate leaders. I have multiple Chinas and multiple Zara Jacovs in my game. This is minor but annoying.

We never encountered this before. Looking at your save game I can see that the duplicate civs were not generated mid-game, but that the game started with them. The only way I can image this happening is if you picked AI civs by hand and used the same civ twice by accident.

6. I've been running slavery for like 1000 years now and have yet to get any slaves. Any idea what's happening there?

As the civic says, you need to conquer cities or found colonies to gain Slaves.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Cities that accumulated >100 culture in their lifetime cannot be razed. This is something we feel improves realism and balance. Sorry this is a gamebreaker for you.

Unfortunately it is. I mean, what am I supposed to do with a bunch of size 1 cities with bad positioning? All they'll ever be is a drain on my economy. Which means I can't go to war against the AI that controls them without loosing even if I win. And if the city is (as they often are) just 1 tile off a good placement it becomes aggravating on top.

I wish you all the best but in the end that really is a hard dealbreaker for me.

 

[Nor'easter]

@PPQ_Purple , my apologies for the simplistic question, but did you try starting a Play Now game to clear any hidden options that might have remained from other mods? (If you did, then these appear to be serious issues, obviously.)

Incidentally, I haven't tried this mod yet, but I took a look at this thread when I saw that you had commented, since we've interacted a bit in the Fall from Heaven forums, so I was curious about your opinion on this one.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

@PPQ_Purple , my apologies for the simplistic question, but did you try starting a Play Now game to clear any hidden options that might have remained from other mods? (If you did, then these appear to be serious issues, obviously.)

Yes, of course I did. In hindsight I think most of the actual bugs were caused by the defective mapscript that I started on. Something is seriously up with that thing. Because once I started a 2nd game with their preferred mapscript they all went away. The only problem that repeated it self in my 2nd game is the one that's actually a feature. Ironically it's the one I can't live with. But oh well.

Incidentally, I haven't tried this mod yet, but I took a look at this thread when I saw that you had commented, since we've interacted a bit in the Fall from Heaven forums, so I was curious about your opinion on this one.

Other than the part where I can't raze cities which really killed it for me I think it's really nice. They resisted the urge to add a million things and completely change everything. And they didn't do stupid things like cosmetic only UU's or pointlessly adding stuff for the sake of it. Instead they just tweaked everything in a way that just really works. Like, if you can get over that one design choice that I couldn't my feeling is that this thing is definitively a top tier mod full of good stuff.

Like, I recently got to trying a bunch of non FFH mods out after years of only FFH. And this one is my favorite aside from that one thing.

 

[Nor'easter]

I haven't done a non-FfH mod in a long time, either, but this does seem worth a try.

 

[Cruiser76]

Yes, it’s a good mod, but I agree the razing issue is annoying. I can see both sides, so maybe a compromise would be to make it optional or increase the threshold.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Yes, it’s a good mod, but I agree the razing issue is annoying. I can see both sides, so maybe a compromise would be to make it optional or increase the threshold.

I don't think we need to debate this as it is a design choice. And it is their mod and their choice to make. But personally I just don't see any good reason why there would be any restrictions when there is already a game option to turn it off. Any sort of cap or limit or rule just means those of us that want to raze would have to find annoying workarounds or be snubbed. Either way, I am going back to FFH.

 

[Cruiser76]

Another possible bug: python errors when playing with random personalities. The Foreign Advisor screen will not display. The debugging tool gives the following exceptions:

UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe9' in position 48: ordinal not in range (128)

File "FavoriteCivicDetector", line 134, in doUpdate

File "FavoriteCivicDetector", line 307, in onBeginActivePlayerTurn

File, "BugEventManager", line 366, in _handleDefaultEvent

Traceback (most recent call last):

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I have a question. Since you have shared your source code including your DLL source does that folder include everything I'd need to recompile the DLL after I make some changes? I basically want to play around a bit to see if I can compile a version without the razing limit. I figure that'd be a good intro for me into CIV4 DLL modding.

I am mainly asking because I noticed that there is no .sln file or makefile of any sort.

 

[keldath]

hi PPQ,

you can use the normal k-mod NMAKE and sln files to compile it.
look at my kplatform mod , the source there is kmod based and uses an updated nmake file and sln and such.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

hi PPQ,

you can use the normal k-mod NMAKE and sln files to compile it.
look at my kplatform mod , the source there is kmod based and uses an updated nmake file and sln and such.

Where can I find those? I can't find a download for K that includes the source. Maybe I am just being stupid.

 

[Team NP]

I added the missing files to our project. In case anything else is missing you can find the K-Mod source here: https://github.com/karadoc/Civ4-K-Mod

To change the city raze condition, look at the canRaze() function inside CvPlayer.cpp. You just want to remove:

// Civ4 Reimagined
if (pCity->countTotalCultureTimes100() > 10000)
{
    return false;
}

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I added the missing files to our project. In case anything else is missing you can find the K-Mod source here: https://github.com/karadoc/Civ4-K-Mod

Thanks.

To change the city raze condition, look at the canRaze() function inside CvPlayer.cpp. You just want to remove:

I figured that was it. Out of curiosity though why "countTotalCultureTimes100"? I mean, why times 100? Is that a civ thing or your thing?

 

[lfgr]

I mean, why times 100? Is that a civ thing or your thing?

It's a civ thing, they use it to represent certain fractions via integers. I heard somewhere on this forum that floating-point calculations may differ on different computers, so maybe that's why the developers didn't use any floats for gameplay-related calculations (only for graphical stuff).

 

[PPQ_Purple]

It's a civ thing, they use it to represent certain fractions via integers. I heard somewhere on this forum that floating-point calculations may differ on different computers, so maybe that's why the developers didn't use any floats for gameplay-related calculations (only for graphical stuff).

Could be. Or it could just be an optimization thing. Now that I think about it I am not sure how true it is today any more but back when I was starting off as a programmer floating point calculations were slower on a CPU level than integer ones. So maybe they were trying to speed the game up.

 

[Leoreth]

Independent of different systems there is always a chance of a floating point error, because a floating point number is always only an approximation of the real value. This can lead to wrong results when a floating point number is used in mathematical operations that exacerbate this error.

 

[lfgr]

But it's deterministic, right? That you might gain 0.00000000000000004 extra culture when calculating 0.1*3 is one thing, OOS errors are another.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

But it's deterministic, right? That you might gain 0.00000000000000004 extra culture when calculating 0.1*3 is one thing, OOS errors are another.

Not really. Floating point calculations are... problematic because floating point numbers are infinite where as their computer representation is not. Long story short if you have say 13.37 that might very well not be equal to 13.37 because even though all you care about is the .37 and all you enter is the .37 and your math newer does anything with any other decimals somewhere in the memory one of those is 13.370000001 and the other is 13.370003. That's why you newer ever use floating point numbers for storing anything critical like coordinates or money. *He said, painfully reflecting on the fact people do.*

This said, I honestly completely forgot that CIV even had decimals for culture. I don't recall seeing it in the UI.