Civ5 at PAX

[Churchdown Yank]

Well, maybe I am just more of a warmonger than I thought. It may well be true. It may *be* more of a wargame than Civ4.

I think we can say it probably is. From the info we've seen and the dev's comments.

What we don't know is how the war component is balanced with the other parts of the game (building, exploring, etc.)

As someone above said, the other parts aren't quite as exciting to write about it a preview.

 

[Ahriman]

Seriously, I've played *so* many games of Civ4 where war barely featured at all, & there were so many aspects of the game (like Religion, Civics, Unique Buildings, Cultural Assimilation etc) which had little or anything to do with war.

I'm sad that it appears cultural assimilation is gone; you can no longer take tiles of any other player except through warfare (and the great artist), no matter how much higher your cultural output is.
I'm also sad that almost no-one seems to have a problem with this.

In general I am very positive about Civ5, but the diplomacy things mentioned here are the one big thing I'm really worried about. I've been saying since forever that hiding diplomatic info from the player is just frustrating.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

You're just getting a positively-reinforced bias because you're looking for these things. There are plenty of things in Civ 5 that have nothing to do with war, just like Civ 4. It's just you've played one and you haven't played the other (and you have a starting dislike due to a few changed/removed features).

WRONG! WRONG!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!!! Take a look at my postings in these threads from the time Civ5 was first announced, even up until about 2 months ago, & you will see that I was a staunch advocate for Civ5-based on everything I'd heard to date. I *loved* the shift to hexes & 1upt, & was very excited about City-States & purchasing of tiles. Then, about the start of August, I started hearing things that I *really* didn't like. The shift to an entirely Global Happiness system really irked me, what I see as the undue focus on the combat element of the game, the loss of certain resources & tile improvements-even if they are now inside cities! Even the Social Policies I'm less enthused about, given how many of them are combat oriented. So far from seeking things to positively reinforce a negative reaction-which I never had-its more that what I'm reading has turned me from an advocate of the game to a critic.

Aussie.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Don't be so mad, I'm pretty sure Religion will be one of the first thing to be reintroduced by a DLE (downloadable expansion). Meanwhile, it will be a great oppotunity for the modding company to be creative and invent new path.

 

[Tibblers]

Aussie:

2.5 social policies trees (Commerce is Navy + economy) out of 10 focus on warmongering and you're screaming about that? You can even neatly split the game into Military, Economy, Science and Diplomacy and Culture and the Military side would barely have larger than its share.

I just think you got tripped up over some detail and then just spiraled downwards.

The Diplomacy thing is worrisome, granted, but the social policy stuff is just being ridiculous.

 

[bjbrains]

Yea. I agree that diplomacy is something that could easily turn out badly if it doesn't change from the press builds. An overfocus on warfare isn't a worry for me though.

 

[Tylerryan79]

Thanks for the brief preview! I'm not too worried about the games apparent short comings, that is until I actually get my hands on it. I remeber when I first played IV all the menus and mechanics didn't seem so obvious too me. I would constently discover new menus and features and different buttons etc that I hadn't known where there. I hope that just a lack of time and being unfamiliar with the new game ui overall is really the case for "missing features". It took me a good few months to have everything I needed to know about IV to become apparent, this time with V I plan on reading the manual front to back before play so I'll be up to snuff with the game.

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

Nobody would be interested in a diplo write up.

"Monty asked my for a peace treaty." "Then I asked Monty for a research pact.

Now an explanation of what all the diplo options do would be nice.

 

[haphazard1]

While it is true that a diplo write up might not be the most exciting thing ever, I am concerned that no one seems to be able to find any kind of diplomacy "status" or "overview" information. Yes, it is almost certainly an old build. But if this is what is being publicly presented less than 3 weeks before release...I do not find this reassuring.

Maybe they want to keep the new diplomacy under wraps until release. But since this is one of the biggest new aspects of Civ V, it seems more likely that it just isn't ready yet. Working through Steam does allow them to keep tweaking/updating/patching right until release. Whether late changes will be fully tested and balanced, though....

 

[SevenSpirits]

Nobody would be interested in a diplo write up.

"Monty asked my for a peace treaty." "Then I asked Monty for a research pact.

Now an explanation of what all the diplo options do would be nice.

I actually have a slightly (<-emphasis) amusing diplo anecdote.

The first guy I met, Askia, asked me for a pact of cooperation. It didn't say what it did. I clicked "OK" and then tried to look it up, but there was no information anywhere. So I though, "OK, fine, well it sounds friendly anyway. I like him being friendly."

I then got writing, and Askia asked me for Open Borders. OK, fine.

Then I met Nobunaga. I immediately opened up the trade screen and looked for pact of cooperation, but it wasn't there. But Open Borders was! So I asked him if he wanted Open Borders. NO! That would not be acceptable. Oh, those wacky Japanese and their hatred of Open Borders.

Anyway, a few turns later, Nobunaga asked me for a pact of secrecy against Askia, and I said no. And then a few turns later he asked me for a pact of cooperation, and I said yes.

And then he asked me for Open Borders. The end.

 

[lissenber]

What I`ve read about your experience of the game has gotten me slightly worried. Call me paranoid but i see a possible conspiracy.

If they see their tester feedback is not very positive gameplay wise then in order to keep the fanbase from canceling their preorders once fans have had a taste of the demo... they move the demo date to 21st September.

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

I think you're being alarmist.

 

[iop]

What I`ve read about your experience of the game has gotten me slightly worried. Call me paranoid but i see a possible conspiracy.

If they see their tester feedback is not very positive gameplay wise then in order to keep the fanbase from canceling their preorders once fans have had a taste of the demo... they move the demo date to 21st September.

Preorders are a small part of the total sale. What would hurt is a lack of sales. Thus, making sure that the demo works is much more important than having a few preorders more or less.

 

[marioflag]

Demos are not released by all games.Considered that they release it on 21 september it is clear that it's directed to people which would buy it months later or are not sure to buy it.
Civfanatics don't really count in their marketing strategy because our money is already in their hand or we are Day 0 sales.

 

[hardcore_gamer]

I'm sad that it appears cultural assimilation is gone; you can no longer take tiles of any other player except through warfare (and the great artist), no matter how much higher your cultural output is.
I'm also sad that almost no-one seems to have a problem with this.

Nobody had a problem with it because people don't like it when one of their cities just suddenly decide to switch sides. I for one always disabled the option to make it happen to prevent it from ever happening prior to starting the game.

 

[sensual benny]

Seriously, I've played *so* many games of Civ4 where war barely featured at all, & there were so many aspects of the game (like Religion, Civics, Unique Buildings, Cultural Assimilation etc) which had little or anything to do with war. With Civ5, though, it feels like every 2nd thing I read has to do with the military aspect of the game!

Aussie.

The history of mankind is the history of war. It would bear no resemblance to our own history if little to no war broke out throughout the course of the game. Realistically, each nation should have to face war, probably more than once.

 

[sdlufkin]

The history of mankind is the history of war. It would bear no resemblance to our own history if little to no war broke out throughout the course of the game. Realistically, each nation should have to face war, probably more than once.

Also, that game he's describing sounds *ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ*

 

[EmpireOfCats]

While it is true that a diplo write up might not be the most exciting thing ever, I am concerned that no one seems to be able to find any kind of diplomacy "status" or "overview" information.

Yeah. Given they are constantly telling us how great the new diplomacy is, you'd think that would be pretty high up on their list of things to show off.

I hope it is not going to be something like "you just have to remember". One problem I have with game companies is that they live in a universe where everybody has time to play a game, every day. Us normal people with rea- ah, normal jobs find themselves in a situation where they can't play the game for two weeks or more. And then if I come back and load that really, really game I was playing, there is no way I'm going to just remember anything.

tl;dr: We need a diplomacy screen. Give it to us.

 

[hclass]

Yeah. Given they are constantly telling us how great the new diplomacy is, you'd think that would be pretty high up on their list of things to show off.

Just wonder if there is an option where "Diplomacy" can be turned off (like tech trade in Civ4)

 

[krunsh]

But you guys know that the ''no info about what the IA think of the player'' thing was annonced as such and was one of the reason why they did not wanted religion in? They felt it was to easy to manipulate the IA and wanted single player game to feel more like you are playing against human (So they can basckstab you anytime if it's the best to win... just like you would do because you are human.).

I think this is a good thing, I always thought it was stupid in Civ4 to have + and - to a relation with the IA and to be able to predict how they would react.

About the missing information for cooperation pact and such, there is no way this is not going to be in the full game... Don't worry... it will at least be in the Super PDF manual.