Civ6 June Update Video

[IvoryPavane]

I agree that firaxis have taken the casual gamer approach with civ6, and perhaps that is a more profitable direction. So I guess here I should just shrug and move on. However, I do think there is still a large following that wants to play a more balanced/competitive version of civ. (Plenty of people still play civ5 with lekmod)

I think a lot of people care less about deity difficulty specifically, and more about general balance and replayability, but again maybe casuals don't notice this, so who cares right? But then my question is: Why attempt to balance the game at all? If they don't understand the game at a high (or even reasonable level) why bother attempting to balance it? I just find it all very baffling.

I haven't bought the latest Frontier Patch because right now it's far too expensive for very little change (perhaps later editions will change my mind). However, if they could prove to me that they understand their own game, I would have full confidence and buy without thinking, but patches like this just expose the fact they have no clue, so instead I won't be dropping any money.

With this in mind, I am now convinced that they are full steam ahead working on Civ7, and this is a small side project to squeeze as much money out of the remaining fanbase as possible, and thats fine, but I ain't taking the bait.

It also helps that no one actually has to buy the frontier pass to get the Civs. It’s possible to buy the DLC separately and I recall it doesn’t come in THAT much more expensive. And the free patches are free (and I’m sorry but I don’t buy “I bought the game anticipating future changes so it’s not free” argument. We bought the expansions for the Civs and new systems. They could have done nothing with the game after that so I’m grateful for the patches we’ve seen).

I agree they shouldn’t balance at Deity level only, but agree that they should aim for overall balance. There are some issues that are visible to all players. Gran Columbia being the most recent example.

I will be disappointed if there are no Civ balance changes in this update, but I’ll reserve judgement until patch notes!

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

But then my question is: Why attempt to balance the game at all? If they don't understand the game at a high (or even reasonable level) why bother attempting to balance it? I just find it all very baffling.

Because, as an "expert" player, you seem to think that casual player is synonymous of carefree or stupid players. Which are not. I'm a casual players, but I still take care of some strategies and read on the wiki to know more, even if I play and feel casual.

Even the most casual player, if he tries to play but there is some large unbalances, would see it. My boyfriend is even more casual than myself and yet he doesn't like Korea because she feels bland and overpowered. Casual players also want some challenges, just not the ones you think. And that asks a little balance. Not "everything must be perfect" balance but a "we will give massive bonuses to Kongo because they have a huge malus" balance, or "is religion fun and not too overpowered/underpowered? Then it's ok" balance.

 

[Piranga]

At this moment I'm very disappointed in myself.

I knew I shouldn't have bought this season pass. Two months in and both "game modes" are absolute garbage.

 

[Kwami]

At this moment I'm very disappointed in myself.

I knew I shouldn't have bought this season pass. Two months in and both "game modes" are absolute garbage.

To clarify, this month's patch is not a game mode. It's just an improvement to an existing scenario. The game modes are going to be released with the paid content packs every two months. The next one is in July, with Ethiopia and the Secret Societies game mode.

 

[Gedemon]

And the free patches are free (and I’m sorry but I don’t buy “I bought the game anticipating future changes so it’s not free” argument.[...]

Not "changes", "fixes".

Now if you're saying that the game should not be released until its systems are all fixed and balanced, I'd agree on the idea, but I'm afraid it's not economically viable for the game's publishers/developers since many years now.

When you understand that you invest money on games based on a trust relationship with the developers, until that trust is broken.

But sometime I wish to have the wisdom of patient gamers, because, yes, that's the other solution.

We bought the expansions for the Civs and new systems.

I didn't bought anything after the base game, still waiting for one of those "free" patches to finally complete what I bought initially.

 

[oSiyeza]

I agree that firaxis have taken the casual gamer approach with civ6, and perhaps that is a more profitable direction. So I guess here I should just shrug and move on. However, I do think there is still a large following that wants to play a more balanced/competitive version of civ. (Plenty of people still play civ5 with lekmod)

I think a lot of people care less about deity difficulty specifically, and more about general balance and replayability, but again maybe casuals don't notice this, so who cares right? But then my question is: Why attempt to balance the game at all? If they don't understand the game at a high (or even reasonable level) why bother attempting to balance it? I just find it all very baffling.

I haven't bought the latest Frontier Patch because right now it's far too expensive for very little change (perhaps later editions will change my mind). However, if they could prove to me that they understand their own game, I would have full confidence and buy without thinking, but patches like this just expose the fact they have no clue, so instead I won't be dropping any money.

With this in mind, I am now convinced that they are full steam ahead working on Civ7, and this is a small side project to squeeze as much money out of the remaining fanbase as possible, and thats fine, but I ain't taking the bait.

Im sorry to disapoint you, but I would bet for Xcom3 first, and no civ 7 for at least 3 or 4 years

 

[WillowBrook]

More Unique Religious Units. Religious Units need more diversity. I’m sorry FXS didn’t create a few more Unique RUs linked to beliefs, a bit like the Monk.

Would love to get a wonder that enables you to faith-buy a unique unit of some sort.

Apocalypse Mode. But sorry this mode didn’t get a slight balance pass.

I suspect we'll get one down the road - I'm only on my second game with the mode, and I imagine they want a bit more time to figure out what to change.

But it does seem obvious that you shouldn't be able to start yeild-improving forest fires in your own land.

 

[IvoryPavane]

Not "changes", "fixes".

Now if you're saying that the game should not be released until its systems are all fixed and balanced, I'd agree on the idea, but I'm afraid it's not economically viable for the game's publishers/developers since many years now.

When you understand that you invest money on games based on a trust relationship with the developers, until that trust is broken.

But sometime I wish to have the wisdom of patient gamers, because, yes, that's the other solution.


I didn't bought anything after the base game, still waiting for one of those "free" patches to finally complete what I bought initially.

Gosh, I really enjoy the level of passion on this forum lol.

The problem here is that they are “fixes” for you, and “changes” for me, because I don’t personally see the game as broken. (Except bugs, please fix the Cothon bug Firaxis if you are watching)

We are all a vocal minority, the vast majority of Civ plays are happy to play the game at face value, and they can make a decision on whether the content represents enough value for them to spend their money on it.

And ultimately that’s the crux of it, because our own personal feelings on what needs to change do not always align with one another, or the developers.

 

[criZp]

Gosh, I really enjoy the level of passion on this forum lol.

The problem here is that they are “fixes” for you, and “changes” for me, because I don’t personally see the game as broken.

They are called balance tweaks. They don't do this just for fun, they do it to fix a problem with game balance.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

The new Pagoda seems strong for Diplomatic, but, at the same time, do I want to spam Holy Sites in a diplo victory? Georgia can make good use of it, since you want faith anyway, to get envoys. Other Civs need to try to adopt it before the AI does, to deny it from them, but it doesn't seem like something you would want to focus production on, unless you also got a use for all the faith you'll get. Even without Georgia, Religious Unity can be used to get some extra envoys, so it might be worth to invest a bit more on Holy Sites to convert city-states, but it isn't something that seems beneficial to spam.

Two civs that could do holy site spam and pay off would be Arabia and Russia. With Arabia, you get your T3 religious building for free (in a Theocracy). Anything to boost T3s, boosts Arabia.

Russia, of course, has the lavra, which is half priced, and you would want to spam it in every city anyways. They're going to benefit the most from these religious changes. Picture Russia with a religion of Aurora, Work Ethic, and Pagodas. You'll be having lavras with +12 faith, +12 production, and +1 diplo favor. On top of the GPP yields. Faith, production, culture, and now diplo from one district. Needless to say, they're going to be the first civ I play when this update drops.

 

[IvoryPavane]

They are called balance tweaks. They don't do this just for fun, they do it to fix a problem with game balance.

And yet here we are with Gran Columbia?

To clarify, I’m not saying the game is perfect - by any means. I’m saying that, for me, fixes imply something is broken, and I don’t feel any part of the game is unplayable.

However, there are many things that could be done in the name of balance, but I’m not going to go completely off the handle because the second of twelve updates haven’t addressed the specific issues I care about.

Except that Cothon bug, I know you are watching Firaxis C:

 

[azmundai]

did they fix great works steals?

 

[criZp]

"Playable" doesn't imply it's fun to play. Many of my problems are just subjective, and while the following are also sort of subjective I do consider them so poorly designed that I count them as objective flaws: world congress voting, religious combat, tourism to tourist conversion, late game being a chore due to half-functional production queue and excessive unit micromanagement, and the constant annoying AI popups ranging from extremely unfair trade proposals to ridiculous demands including money and that you promise to move away from their borders because you had two scouts near their territory, or because they settled a city right on your border next to your border troops. Many of the things that annoy me I have fixed by modding the game, but these things I can't do anything with.

 

[Gedemon]

Gosh, I really enjoy the level of passion on this forum lol.

The problem here is that they are “fixes” for you, and “changes” for me, because I don’t personally see the game as broken. (Except bugs, please fix the Cothon bug Firaxis if you are watching)

We are all a vocal minority, the vast majority of Civ plays are happy to play the game at face value, and they can make a decision on whether the content represents enough value for them to spend their money on it.

And ultimately that’s the crux of it, because our own personal feelings on what needs to change do not always align with one another, or the developers.

I agree, completely.

For one it's a free patch because what he paid for has already been delivered, for another one some things are broken from the start and need to be fixed, so what he has paid for has not been delivered and when a patch fixe one of those things, he doesn't consider it as a gracious gift.

So one can't say to the other "don't complain, it's free", as they are not in the same referential.

And your last sentence explain why civ4 and civ5 are infinitely superior to civ6 at this time, any personal "fix" or "change" can be done by anyone with a bit of free time.

 

[IvoryPavane]

I agree, completely.

For one it's a free patch because what he paid for has already been delivered, for another one some things are broken from the start and need to be fixed, so what he has paid for has not been delivered and when a patch fixe one of those things, he doesn't consider it as a gracious gift.

So one can't say to the other "don't complain, it's free", as they are not in the same referential.

And your last sentence explain why civ4 and civ5 are infinitely superior to civ6 at this time, any personal "fix" or "change" can be done by anyone with a bit of free time.

Definitely! And I do hope I didn’t come across as “don’t complain, it’s free”. That absolutely wasn’t my intent, but I’m told my communication skills are... not the best haha.

I think what I’m trying to angle at is that I don’t think it’s a case of “don’t complain, it’s free” but more a case of “well at least it’s free, so if it doesn’t fix what you like at this point, then it hasn’t impacted on you negatively”

I don’t want to be some sort of knight here for Firaxis either. It’s healthy to look at businesses with a critical eye and there are certainly plenty of issues needing addressed (for a third and final time, Cothon bug Firaxis!!!!! C, and I’d hope that they do address many of the issues we see suggested by our fine posters here.

However, I don’t personally think Firaxis has been unfair to the consumer as I see suggested here by some. The season pass is certainly a departure, but there’s no impetus to buy it until everyone is certain it will give bang for the buck. The only thing you lose out on is the Teddy/Catherine leader pack, everything else we can wait and see, and buy the DLC packs if we think it’s valuable.

And that’s what I mean by it being free. Not “you just love it because it’s free” and more “well if it doesn’t address what you are looking for this time, at least it’s free!”

Apologies for any confusion, to everyone

 

[UWHabs]

Two civs that could do holy site spam and pay off would be Arabia and Russia. With Arabia, you get your T3 religious building for free (in a Theocracy). Anything to boost T3s, boosts Arabia.

Russia, of course, has the lavra, which is half priced, and you would want to spam it in every city anyways. They're going to benefit the most from these religious changes. Picture Russia with a religion of Aurora, Work Ethic, and Pagodas. You'll be having lavras with +12 faith, +12 production, and +1 diplo favor. On top of the GPP yields. Faith, production, culture, and now diplo from one district. Needless to say, they're going to be the first civ I play when this update drops.

I'd potentially argue Japan as a better use of the changes than Russia, since they also get cheaper holy sites, but also gain an adjacency bonus for them. Certainly Russia is golden because it meshes well with their tundra focus so they have a natural choice of pantheon, but Japan can use holy sites all over the map.
Of course, you still need to actually found the first religion to get the first choice of beliefs, so you still need to make an early focus.It will be interesting to see the default AI selection order, though. Russia still tends to be first to found a religion when they're around, so they still have that bonus over other civs.

 

[DWilson]

What's the Cothon bug?

 

[IvoryPavane]

What's the Cothon bug?

Naval units are supposed to heal to full in city borders with a Cothon present and they currently don’t.

It’s not game breaking by any means, but I’ve had a few games where I really could have used the healing and I’ve submitted a few bug reports now to no avail.

So apologies about bringing it up so often but repetition is key!

 

[universecreep]

I hope they can improve diplomacy. For example, i'm still getting the "you're going into bankruptcy" comments when I'm nowhere near that point.
The whole diplomatic core needs a run through to make it more fun and less frustrating.

 

[Bitterman]

I always thought that the "you're going into bankruptcy" line was just their way to tell you that you are not as rich as they are, because they have that agenda.

I mean I think is not a literal thing.