Civ6++ 1.11

[ElGuapoCiv]

Thanks, I found the error.
Should have been:
<Set CostProgressionModel="COST_PROGRESSION_PREVIOUS_COPIES" CostProgressionParam1="20"/>

I hate SQL, XML, Prolog and anything related to databases.

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

ElGuapoCiv updated Civ6++ with a new update entry:

District progression tied to number of existing ones, religious spread more macro

This is a bigger update.
- Vanilla districts are tied to the number of techs/civics researched and the average of all players (BS rubber band mechanism). I changed that to a system akin to the settler cost progression: each additional district of the same type costs 20 more (Districts.xml).
- Religion spreads 30% (10-->13) further from adjacent cities to accomodate for the increased cost of religious units in favour of more macro than micro (GlobalParameters.xml).

PS: I didn't find a better...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[PupiWizard]

These are the related barbarian camp settings:
<Row Name="BARBARIAN_CAMP_FIRST_TURN_PERCENT_OF_TARGET_TO_ADD" Value="33" />
<Row Name="BARBARIAN_CAMP_MAX_PER_MAJOR_CIV" Value="3" />
<Row Name="BARBARIAN_CAMP_MINIMUM_DISTANCE_ANOTHER_CAMP" Value="7" />
<Row Name="BARBARIAN_CAMP_MINIMUM_DISTANCE_CITY" Value="4" />
<Row Name="BARBARIAN_CAMP_ODDS_OF_NEW_CAMP_SPAWNING" Value="2" />

I went with reducing the max_per_major_civ from 3 to 2 because it seemed to be the most controllable value.
I think that there's a lot of potential in fiddling with the "first_turn" and "spawning" values instead though. Maybe lowering "first turn" from 33 to 25 (less barb camps initially) and "spawning" from 2% to 1% (less frequent spawns) would be a viable alternative.

Any thoughts on improving the barbarian issue? I don't like the vanilla settings. They put too much emphasis on barb fighting in the beginning and basically force you to start with unit production. In the later game the frequent spawns are a nuisance that require a lot of micro.

PS: Like I wrote initially, the used values are very easy to change. I highly recommend everyone to adjust the settings to their own preference. I'd appreciate it if you report the experience with the existing/adjusted values. Thanks!

I also think the barbarians spawn and raiding is a bit crazy sometimes. I mean ive had it where I start a game and a scout finds me and I have like a warrior and a scout and i get raided by horses, I agree with you that simply is a bit crazy. However its also quite fun if the barbarians attack you and specially on higher difficulty when the barbs attack the AI it helps a lot. I think the barbs should still be there cuz they play an interesting role even though you and I and everyone hates them BECAUSE THEY TOOK MY BUILDER AT TURN 42!!!! but yeah maybe keep it as it is but maybe a slight delay on when they spawn so that at least the player atleast had enough time to prepare and otherwise its your fault for not preparing for barbs. If you keep it as it is, I feel its such a nerf that its killing a part of the game. I mean barbarians are a good thing too, they give you money if you clear a camp and you can get that pantheon where you get faith, civs like you sometimes for killing them and they slow down the AI and stuff. Its a legit strategy to go after barbarians.

 

[PupiWizard]

Barbarian nerf would change the player experience, but it probably helps the AI more than the human.

Yeah agreed, barbs help a lot on higher difficulties to slow down the AI, I mean the player can set up units to keep line of sight so camps don't spawn and also the player is smart enough to prevent barbarian scouts and stuff.

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

I also think the barbarians spawn and raiding is a bit crazy sometimes. I mean ive had it where I start a game and a scout finds me and I have like a warrior and a scout and i get raided by horses, I agree with you that simply is a bit crazy. However its also quite fun if the barbarians attack you and specially on higher difficulty when the barbs attack the AI it helps a lot. I think the barbs should still be there cuz they play an interesting role even though you and I and everyone hates them BECAUSE THEY TOOK MY BUILDER AT TURN 42!!!! but yeah maybe keep it as it is but maybe a slight delay on when they spawn so that at least the player atleast had enough time to prepare and otherwise its your fault for not preparing for barbs. If you keep it as it is, I feel its such a nerf that its killing a part of the game. I mean barbarians are a good thing too, they give you money if you clear a camp and you can get that pantheon where you get faith, civs like you sometimes for killing them and they slow down the AI and stuff. Its a legit strategy to go after barbarians.

I didn't feel that with 2 instead of 3 max_per_major that the early game is too easy. I still had quite a few barbs to deal with (on king) and the a.i. players. Montezuma for instance attacked me at around turn 30 in my last duel-size map. Another problem with Barbs is that they sometimes eliminate an a.i. player early on which completely sucks.

I'm currently still in one game, so it might take 1-2 days before I can experiment with other barb settings.
Maybe we can find a new setting together to experiment with.
If I reset max_per_major to vanilla 3, then I'm thinking of reducing first_turn from 33 to 20ish. The spawning odds of 2(%) can't really be changed, because the values aren't discrete. The next step would be 1(%) and halving the spawning rate seems a bit too harsh, no? Another workaround would be to increase the min_distance between camps from 7 to 8, effectively lowering the number of active camps a tad (not as much as the 3-->2 max setting).

#barb nerf helping the a.i.
That's what I feel as well from my experience. The a.i. opponent on my recent map got to 3 cities about as fast as I did on king. Helping the a.i. would definitely be a plus.

 

[PupiWizard]

I didn't feel that with 2 instead of 3 max_per_major that the early game is too easy. I still had quite a few barbs to deal with (on king) and the a.i. players. Montezuma for instance attacked me at around turn 30 in my last duel-size map. Another problem with Barbs is that they sometimes eliminate an a.i. player early on which completely sucks.

I'm currently still in one game, so it might take 1-2 days before I can experiment with other barb settings.
Maybe we can find a new setting together to experiment with.
If I reset max_per_major to vanilla 3, then I'm thinking of reducing first_turn from 33 to 20ish. The spawning odds of 2(%) can't really be changed, because the values aren't discrete. The next step would be 1(%) and halving the spawning rate seems a bit too harsh, no? Another workaround would be to increase the min_distance between camps from 7 to 8, effectively lowering the number of active camps a tad (not as much as the 3-->2 max setting).

#barb nerf helping the a.i.
That's what I feel as well from my experience. The a.i. opponent on my recent map got to 3 cities about as fast as I did on king. Helping the a.i. would definitely be a plus.

I quite like the increase the min_distance between camps from 7 to 8, I usually play on Immortal/Deity (with mods) I think the barbs should somewhat be the same, spawn the same but maybe less average amount of camps would do the trick. If you have 2 camps next to your territory and they both decide to raid you its simply not fun, however I feel the raids should happen it makes the game quite fun. Im not 100% sure how the barbs work in a code LUA perspective you probably know more about that.
Another odd thing about the min_distance is that its so random because it depends on the type of map etc, and the size. Anyhow, Ill do some testing this weekend with your mod and give you some more feedback. Ill just have to ask you what the current stats for barbs is when I redownload it on saturday.

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

Okay, here's what the patch changed:
- counterspy is now 8-->16, I will still leave it at 40
- religious cost progression is +50%, exactly what this mod did
- barb camps now have an extra 1 distance per low difficulty... I assume that prince or king is default and any level lower will increase distance by 1. I will set first turn percent from 33-->25 and leave the rest alone.
- districts haven't been touched, I'll stick with the cost progression model per copy, slightly increase to 25.

Will test the settings now and upload an update soon.

 

[Larsenex]

Great work thank you! Will this be updated for the patch released yesterday?

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

ElGuapoCiv updated Civ6++ with a new update entry:

November patch update

Firaxis completely adopted the +50% religious progression cost. I left the barb settings to vanilla because the patch changed several things and I want to test their balance first. District progression slightly more expensive (20-->25).

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

Great work thank you! Will this be updated for the patch released yesterday?

Done! Not fully tested, but I didn't notice any problems yet.

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

ElGuapoCiv updated Civ6++ with a new update entry:

Bugfixes

Fixed SQL bug that caused the regional range increase not to trigger.
Adjust the barbarian settings to your preference in "globalparameters". If you prefer vanilla, then simply delete the Barbarian line.
The "first turn" barb setting isn't as straight forward as I thought and the new patch only reduces barbs on lower difficulty settings.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[White Out]

hey, wicked mod gave it 5 star and its a must have for me now. have you considered adding a combat bonus for the AI vs barbarians? i find that barbs will often give huge problems to the AI and I dont want to turn them off and make it easier for me

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

hey, wicked mod gave it 5 star and its a must have for me now. have you considered adding a combat bonus for the AI vs barbarians? i find that barbs will often give huge problems to the AI and I dont want to turn them off and make it easier for me

Thanks a lot! I didn't even think about a.i. vs barbs boosts to be honest. Are you sure that's needed at all? From my memory, both city states and a.i. civs are pretty aggressive barb killers, a.i. Sumeria makes a mint with cavalry barb killer forces. Have you observed any difference in the latest vanilla patch?
I don't even know if such changes are possible. Took a quick look at the barbarian and globalmodifier files and found no value for that.

Currently I'm trying to find the perfect district cost progression balance. The current +25 increase per existing district works quite nicely. In a tall game with few cities (I had 4 in my recent game), the districts are dirt cheap in the late game. Then again, most people won't play tiny maps with a handful of cities.

 

[White Out]

Thanks a lot! I didn't even think about a.i. vs barbs boosts to be honest. Are you sure that's needed at all? From my memory, both city states and a.i. civs are pretty aggressive barb killers, a.i. Sumeria makes a mint with cavalry barb killer forces. Have you observed any difference in the latest vanilla patch?
I don't even know if such changes are possible. Took a quick look at the barbarian and globalmodifier files and found no value for that.

Currently I'm trying to find the perfect district cost progression balance. The current +25 increase per existing district works quite nicely. In a tall game with few cities (I had 4 in my recent game), the districts are dirt cheap in the late game. Then again, most people won't play tiny maps with a handful of cities.

Well I thought about my post more last night and I think it may actually be more to do with barbarians that are too advanced for the AI to handle. Right now as it stands, the Barbarians will have the latest tech of the highest civ. So civs that are struggling with science will get hammered on by barbarians.

Example, one game I did a duel and France was on the other continent. I was far far ahead of them in science and when I made my way over to their continent they had only settled one city; Barbarians were running wild. Barbs were using gunpowder when the ai france still had horsemen.

I think maybe a better fix would be to have Barbarians at the lowest level of science rather than highest?

Ideally, my perfect fix would be that Barbarian encampments would generate units at the same tech of the nearest Civ. I dunno, spitballing here.

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

Well I thought about my post more last night and I think it may actually be more to do with barbarians that are too advanced for the AI to handle. Right now as it stands, the Barbarians will have the latest tech of the highest civ. So civs that are struggling with science will get hammered on by barbarians.
Example, one game I did a duel and France was on the other continent. I was far far ahead of them in science and when I made my way over to their continent they had only settled one city; Barbarians were running wild. Barbs were using gunpowder when the ai france still had horsemen.
I think maybe a better fix would be to have Barbarians at the lowest level of science rather than highest?
Ideally, my perfect fix would be that Barbarian encampments would generate units at the same tech of the nearest Civ. I dunno, spitballing here.

Good point! The a.i. is notorious for not upgrading their units.

This value regulates the barb tech level relative to something. It's unclear though what the relation is exactly. I assume that it works similarly to what you're proposing. "Tech percent" relative to tech leader, relative to the nearest neighbour? I guess the latter is probably the case.
<Row Name="BARBARIAN_TECH_PERCENT" Value="50" />

You could add these lines to my mod (in the GlobalParamaters file):
<Update>
<Where Name="BARBARIAN_TECH_PERCENT" />
<Set Value="30" />
</Update>

Or whatever value you like of course. I don't think that you can distinguish between barbs for the a.i. and for the player. But since the player is capable of pistol whipping the barbs anyways, the a.i. will benefit more from weak barbs.

 

[White Out]

I think that's exactly the value I'm after. I'm going to have to do an experimental game when I get home tho to verify. Ideally, they're friggin barbarians... they shouldn't be running around as infantry etc etc

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

I think that's exactly the value I'm after. I'm going to have to do an experimental game when I get home tho to verify. Ideally, they're friggin barbarians... they shouldn't be running around as infantry etc etc

Experiments are always best in my experience on a duel size pangaea map.

 

[Cosmic Fox]

I was loving your mod until you also, like many others, began combining solutions to your already good mod. Since the last updates it has broke, no longer working with the mods I run. Why must you guys combine many things to one purpose mods for? I understand you want your mod to be the one to download but dang. It cause severe issues unless its run alone now, I wanted to let you know because I loved your mod. Resolved so many issues.

 

[ElGuapoCiv]

I was loving your mod until you also, like many others, began combining solutions to your already good mod. Since the last updates it has broke, no longer working with the mods I run. Why must you guys combine many things to one purpose mods for? I understand you want your mod to be the one to download but dang. It cause severe issues unless its run alone now, I wanted to let you know because I loved your mod. Resolved so many issues.

Thanks for your feedback!
You can still download the older versions which are compatible with your modding set-up. You can also check the files that were changed by the mods you use. If two mods use one file, there's probably going to be a conflict. Just delete the file in one of the mods and you should be good to go.

In general: I did the mod mainly for myself and since I don't follow the modding scene too too much, I don't know what the other mods do. It's virtually impossible to create a mod that is compatible with all other mods anyways.

 

[Leodim]

Cool mod. Even though I only kept a small part of it :
- district progression model (greatest part!)
- scout strength 12
- edited lua to have less city states as suggested
I deleted the rest because the vanilla seems ok to me.

I'm still looking for a mod to make the AI attack more your units with its units when at war (it's so cautious you can shoot them so easily now), and AI+ is in fact not that good at that (and very bad at other aspects).