Lonecat Nekophrodite
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2019
- Messages
- 2,800
This is a list of units that has to be fixed. While many units are quite alright to me compared to Civ6. Some if not many needs some attention.
Antiquity Age.
Most units are 'as good as it is' but not all.
- Quadrireme. Should be named Polyreme.
Also by appearance. Asian variants (also used by others) is anachronistics (this included galleys). Gaft rigged tanja sails did n't exists until 19th Century, with British and American sailers ply into Shanghai and other Qing ports with gaft rigged sailships. Asian quadrireme shown there is actually a Hongkong sailship or Keying junk. both of which are 19th Century designs.
- Han Chu-ko-nu appears too early. it should replace archers and not slingers.
Exploration Age.
This is the two most problematic age. and more than just unit lists. but also the needs to separate amateur wartime draftees who persisted only at the duration of war (against other players and not independent powers) and professional 'warrior castes' who spent years of trainings. Biggest examples are Swordsmen, I don't mind heavy archers though since there are countries that can successfully raised peasast archers in the middle ages--England was a big example and famously deployed Longbowmen against French Knights at Agincourt at some point in the Hundread Years War.
The other issues is that gunpowder weaponizations. Firaxis NEVER GETS IT RIGHT!
Amateurs
These are millitias. can be raised immediately when a player is at war and instantly in large numbers, weak (only half or two third of Professionals iterations of the same tier), but player can't keep them forever. this unit simply disappears once the war (against rival players) is concluded. with the ratings of 1 per 10 populations (certin policies or traditions can leverage ratings into a larger portions of 1/5.) and only one third upkeep of regulars / professionals.
Lists of Amateur units in this age. using 3 tier systems
Professionals
These can be trained as normal. Though unit names has to be fixed
1. Swordsmen should be renamed to Footmen (and also have spearmen in formation. Spearmen with shields similiar to antiquity heavy infantry did not disappear).
2. Pikeman of Tier 3 should now be named Battalion. and now the entire formations also have arquebusiers.
3. Arquebusiers should now be renamed Culverin. and they're now cannons on wheeled carriage, Trunioned but have longer barrel with 16th Century carriage. increased attack strenghts VS settlements and ships but still not as strong as a bombard.
en.wikipedia.org
4. Lancers should now renamed to Cuirassiers. as graphical representation shows them to use pistols and wore 16-17th century style armor. Development history suggested that there were originally planned to be 4 tiers with cuirassiers being the last cavalry of Age II (and Pike and Shotte being Tier 4 Infantry) then design change decisions truncated unit tier numbers to 3.
Originally Lancers are heavy knights in heavy full plate armor of 15-16th Century, while knights wore Crusaders era armor at best.
Modern Age.
While distinctions between amateurs and professionals should disappear at this point.
it doesn't seems to be so
especially with Unique Units. Soldaderas are in fact Amateurs, and even so this unit should have Ideology bonus.
And Firaxis never seems to get modenr warfare right, and even wrong when it comes to navy, and when Landship returns.
This is the existing Light and Heavy warships.
Firaxis likes to mix up Frigate and Ship of the Line. While under Civ 6 system, both HAS TO BE be at the beginning of Industrial Era (but this incurs another problem since Ironclad signifies Industrial Era of that setting). Tnder Three Ages model, both Ship of the Line and Frigate should appear. but.... for Firaxis. Ironclad means American Civil War era armored steam gunboats--particularly CSS Virginia and USS Monitor. rather than anything heavy developed by British Navy and French Imperial Navy between 1860-1900, this skipped Pre Dreadnoughts entirely (only being Meiji UU--Mikasa, and Meiji can churn out many of them while IRL there's only one Mikasa (and now a preserved museum), )and quite irony Japan did develops their own Dreadnoughts (Mikasa is the last imported battleship IJN ordered, made in Pembroke).
And overall unit lineups are very off to me. especailly Landships should not even return, or its characteristics should be altered. what really bugs me is that you tend to get either Combustions or Industrializations early. and Industrialization unlocks Tier 2 land units, even before 18th Century is over.
I don't mind getting a train ride in 1776, but not WW1 infantrymen and landships in the Opium War of 1830.
Especially since there's no Victorian era riflemen here.
Adjusted Unitlist (only those that has to be adjusted, those that not is not shown here)
* Renamed from existing units. some unit also needs new graphics*
- Shock Troops should be a better name of Infantry Company.
- Line Cavalry means 'Enlightenment Era' shock cavalry of all kind. Big men on Big horses (in rare cases camels) that doesn't neccessary wears shiny armor of any kind (and these kind of shock cavalrymen at that time tend not to.) and this includes Cuirassiers.
This because not everyone actually fields cuirassiers. even any cavalry labelled as 'heavy cavalry' with junior noblemen riding big horses also not seen with iron cuirasses.
www.jemimafawr.co.uk
The majority of shock cavalry of the world at that time (1700s-1850s) are big men on big horses but no iron cuirasses, and they still work well without it.
American Continental Army, and later US Army never field cuirassiers. But in 1830s some recieved the same Heavy Cavalry trainings as Europe. though this is not American cavalry tradition (which developed around firepower, and US Army cavalryr was the first to use repeating firearms)
- Moden Cavalry (can be named so lame as Rifle Cavalry, or Mounted Rifles). Armed with magazine rifled carbine, can either fight on horseback or on foot. Americans, as well as British Colonies developed this kind of multpurpose cavalry (Australian Light Horses is such example), while such developments originally what Dragoons fought. but abandoned a century after. European cavalry rarely taps the advantages of mounted rifles until WW1 modern warfare compelled them to do so, and with that mounted infantry doctrine returns.
In game terms, about as strong as infantry, and not impaired by any anticavalry disadvantages. (i can't recall of this thing still exists in Civ7). and can defend.
+ Landship should be slower (only as fast as infantrymen), but stronger against all Tier2 land units, ignores defender fortified bonus.
- Howitzer should be black powder era unit, these are premier siege weapons used alongside mortar, used in sieges (and sometimes against warships), Modern Artillery and Self Propelled Artillery are renamed actually.
- Frigate should replace Ironclad and becomes available at the start. and a fleet should begin with more light warships and one heavy ship.
- All Heavy Warships should be mightier, and more expensive. since there aren't many of these exists at their eras, and not many nations can afford ones (good things is that no independent power uses heavy warships anymore. since these are really out of their reaches)
Not just spamming a fleet full of Dreadnoughts while these not really what existed in real life. Heavy warships in this game is too weak to my likings. though it has to be more vulnerable to countermeasures, while lighter warships aren't.
That's all for now. the unique units are another story.
Antiquity Age.
Most units are 'as good as it is' but not all.
- Quadrireme. Should be named Polyreme.
This is perfectly a description of any Polyremes. Quadriremes only popular by just about a century and later supplanted by bigger Quinqueremes. And in Roman and Carthaginian roster, there are more quinqueremes than quadriremes. especially its ability to equip catapults (it was an alternative name of Ballistae, original meaning is 'Armor piercer')
Also by appearance. Asian variants (also used by others) is anachronistics (this included galleys). Gaft rigged tanja sails did n't exists until 19th Century, with British and American sailers ply into Shanghai and other Qing ports with gaft rigged sailships. Asian quadrireme shown there is actually a Hongkong sailship or Keying junk. both of which are 19th Century designs.
- Han Chu-ko-nu appears too early. it should replace archers and not slingers.
Exploration Age.
This is the two most problematic age. and more than just unit lists. but also the needs to separate amateur wartime draftees who persisted only at the duration of war (against other players and not independent powers) and professional 'warrior castes' who spent years of trainings. Biggest examples are Swordsmen, I don't mind heavy archers though since there are countries that can successfully raised peasast archers in the middle ages--England was a big example and famously deployed Longbowmen against French Knights at Agincourt at some point in the Hundread Years War.
The other issues is that gunpowder weaponizations. Firaxis NEVER GETS IT RIGHT!
Amateurs
These are millitias. can be raised immediately when a player is at war and instantly in large numbers, weak (only half or two third of Professionals iterations of the same tier), but player can't keep them forever. this unit simply disappears once the war (against rival players) is concluded. with the ratings of 1 per 10 populations (certin policies or traditions can leverage ratings into a larger portions of 1/5.) and only one third upkeep of regulars / professionals.
Lists of Amateur units in this age. using 3 tier systems
| Tier 1 | Tier 2 | Tier 3 | |
| Infantry | Fyrd | Pikeman | Militia Pike and Shot |
| Ranged | - | Crossbowman | - |
Professionals
These can be trained as normal. Though unit names has to be fixed
1. Swordsmen should be renamed to Footmen (and also have spearmen in formation. Spearmen with shields similiar to antiquity heavy infantry did not disappear).
2. Pikeman of Tier 3 should now be named Battalion. and now the entire formations also have arquebusiers.
3. Arquebusiers should now be renamed Culverin. and they're now cannons on wheeled carriage, Trunioned but have longer barrel with 16th Century carriage. increased attack strenghts VS settlements and ships but still not as strong as a bombard.
Demi-culverin - Wikipedia
Originally Lancers are heavy knights in heavy full plate armor of 15-16th Century, while knights wore Crusaders era armor at best.
Modern Age.
While distinctions between amateurs and professionals should disappear at this point.
it doesn't seems to be so
especially with Unique Units. Soldaderas are in fact Amateurs, and even so this unit should have Ideology bonus.
And Firaxis never seems to get modenr warfare right, and even wrong when it comes to navy, and when Landship returns.
This is the existing Light and Heavy warships.
Tier 1 | Tier 2 | Tier 3 | |
| Light | Ironclad* | Cruiser | Destroyer |
| Heavy | Ship of the Line | Dreadnought* | Battleship |
Firaxis likes to mix up Frigate and Ship of the Line. While under Civ 6 system, both HAS TO BE be at the beginning of Industrial Era (but this incurs another problem since Ironclad signifies Industrial Era of that setting). Tnder Three Ages model, both Ship of the Line and Frigate should appear. but.... for Firaxis. Ironclad means American Civil War era armored steam gunboats--particularly CSS Virginia and USS Monitor. rather than anything heavy developed by British Navy and French Imperial Navy between 1860-1900, this skipped Pre Dreadnoughts entirely (only being Meiji UU--Mikasa, and Meiji can churn out many of them while IRL there's only one Mikasa (and now a preserved museum), )and quite irony Japan did develops their own Dreadnoughts (Mikasa is the last imported battleship IJN ordered, made in Pembroke).
And overall unit lineups are very off to me. especailly Landships should not even return, or its characteristics should be altered. what really bugs me is that you tend to get either Combustions or Industrializations early. and Industrialization unlocks Tier 2 land units, even before 18th Century is over.
I don't mind getting a train ride in 1776, but not WW1 infantrymen and landships in the Opium War of 1830.
Especially since there's no Victorian era riflemen here.
Adjusted Unitlist (only those that has to be adjusted, those that not is not shown here)
| Tier 1 | Tier 2 | Tier 3 | |
| Infantry | Line Infantry | Rifle Infantry | Shock Troops* |
| Cavalry | Line Cavalry* | Modern Cavalry* | Tank + |
| Armored Fighting Vehicles | - | Landship + | Tank + |
| Siege | Howitzer* | Modern Artillery* | Self Propelled Artillery* |
| Naval Light | Frigate* | Cruiser | Destroyer |
| Submarine | - | Submarine | - |
* Renamed from existing units. some unit also needs new graphics*
- Shock Troops should be a better name of Infantry Company.
- Line Cavalry means 'Enlightenment Era' shock cavalry of all kind. Big men on Big horses (in rare cases camels) that doesn't neccessary wears shiny armor of any kind (and these kind of shock cavalrymen at that time tend not to.) and this includes Cuirassiers.
This because not everyone actually fields cuirassiers. even any cavalry labelled as 'heavy cavalry' with junior noblemen riding big horses also not seen with iron cuirasses.
‘King George Commands And We Obey’ (Part 6: Regiments of Horse and Dragoon Guards)
Please try to control your excitement and do not adjust your set, but here are some more British cavalry regiments for the Seven Years War! As discussed last time, I had the sudden urge late last y…
www.jemimafawr.co.uk
American Continental Army, and later US Army never field cuirassiers. But in 1830s some recieved the same Heavy Cavalry trainings as Europe. though this is not American cavalry tradition (which developed around firepower, and US Army cavalryr was the first to use repeating firearms)
- Moden Cavalry (can be named so lame as Rifle Cavalry, or Mounted Rifles). Armed with magazine rifled carbine, can either fight on horseback or on foot. Americans, as well as British Colonies developed this kind of multpurpose cavalry (Australian Light Horses is such example), while such developments originally what Dragoons fought. but abandoned a century after. European cavalry rarely taps the advantages of mounted rifles until WW1 modern warfare compelled them to do so, and with that mounted infantry doctrine returns.
In game terms, about as strong as infantry, and not impaired by any anticavalry disadvantages. (i can't recall of this thing still exists in Civ7). and can defend.
+ Landship should be slower (only as fast as infantrymen), but stronger against all Tier2 land units, ignores defender fortified bonus.
- Howitzer should be black powder era unit, these are premier siege weapons used alongside mortar, used in sieges (and sometimes against warships), Modern Artillery and Self Propelled Artillery are renamed actually.
- Frigate should replace Ironclad and becomes available at the start. and a fleet should begin with more light warships and one heavy ship.
- All Heavy Warships should be mightier, and more expensive. since there aren't many of these exists at their eras, and not many nations can afford ones (good things is that no independent power uses heavy warships anymore. since these are really out of their reaches)
Not just spamming a fleet full of Dreadnoughts while these not really what existed in real life. Heavy warships in this game is too weak to my likings. though it has to be more vulnerable to countermeasures, while lighter warships aren't.
That's all for now. the unique units are another story.
