Civic Buildings

[LumenAngel]

O and another building for communists = Gulags. Crime reduction and industrly points ad happness expense.

Gulags are some sort of concentration camp...
I think having only one building for both is enough
So call it "Prisonner camp" and it will vork for Totalitarism and Despotism.

 

[bill2505]

Gulags are some sort of concentration camp...
I think having only one building for both is enough
So call it "Prisonner camp" and it will vork for Totalitarism and Despotism.

i am t against it because civics must be seen in a more neutral way .for example a despot theoritically can be good and bad. showing the bad side is a bit .

for example imagine if in free trade civic you have building like : work until you die sweatshops (sweatshops are a reality in free trade )

 

[crazyewok]

Yes but it a building you dont have to build it So you can be a dictator and not build the work camps. It your choice, just cause a building avilible dont mean you have to build it As a dictator you have the power and so part of the challange is to resist that temptaion to do evil stuff

O and the sweet shop idea a good one Again you dont have to build it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

for example imagine if in free trade civic you have building like : work until you die sweatshops (sweatshops are a reality in free trade )

Good idea.

I'd like to eventually work a Karma system into the game that judges your choices, from what buildings you build, to razing or not razing, to letting your troops kill workers or capture them and enslave them, or release them freely, to Nuke or act to suppress Nuclear weapons worldwide etc... As you go, your choices, not all of which are easy ones, begin to define you as evil through good. This would give you access to other buildings, choices, and selections as you grow more defined in your ways and would certainly be a huge influence on diplomacy.

Such buildings we're discussing would fit in perfectly with such a project.

 

[bill2505]

Yes but it a building you dont have to build it So you can be a dictator and not build the work camps. It your choice, just cause a building avilible dont mean you have to build it As a dictor you have the power and so part of the challange is to resist that temptaion to do evil stuff

yea but that building could be used somewhare else.plus having an unused building is a bit specialy when other civics have 3 or more buildings
if we add the bad side lets put them everywhare.what about a taliban bomb unit about islam (just an example
. dont pretend that bombings dont happen

what about ........

Thunderbrd unless you add three good unique civic buildings for every civic and three bad for the same civic i thing it will be very unfair

 

[crazyewok]

yea but that building could be used somewhare else.plus having an unused building is a bit specialy when other civics have 3 or more buildings
if we add the bad side lets put them everywhare.what about a taliban bomb unit about islam (just an example
. dont pretend that bombings dont happen

what about ........

Well there is a unit that blow things up, destroys buildings and basicaly acts in that fashion, you have spys and partaisns ect. Plus a camp isnt spefic like a talbiban bomb unit as camps have been used in multiple countrys in diffrent fashions (all evil but some worse than others) as I already said Britain Had them and even America had intermemt camps.

And yeah there should be good and bad sides to each civic. It your nation and your choice what to do. If you cant resist the temptation of building that building maybe you shouldnt have the power of being a dictator lol

But anyway civ should be about choice.

 

[lifehole]

I'm with ewok and thunderbird, I want to be able to create an aztec anarcho-marxist-fascist-copor-nation with re-education centers and public stoning.

 

[crazyewok]

I'm with ewok and thunderbird, I want to be able to create an aztec anarcho-marxist-fascist-copor-nation with re-education centers and public stoning.

Thats the spirit

That what makes Civ a great game lol

 

[Thunderbrd]

Thunderbrd unless you add three good unique civic buildings for every civic and three bad for the same civic i thing it will be very unfair

To some extent I'm in agreement. BUT, I also think its not necessary to try to present every civic as potentially good, neutral, or evil depending on how you work with it. Some Civics could well be simply Good (Emancipation for example) while others undeniably Evil (Fascism or Fanaticism come to mind - though I AM working off game memories of the last Civic options list that I haven't fully adapted to having changed yet.)

 

[lifehole]

ehh fascism is only evil if it is used against other nations and if people are being extremely oppressed by it, in theory it can work peacefully. Didn't turn out that way due to extreme circumstances.

my point is evil is subjective, and circumstances dictate the subject.

 

[Hydromancerx]

for example imagine if in free trade civic you have building like : work until you die sweatshops (sweatshops are a reality in free trade )

Sweatshops were on my todo list. I did not think to link it with a civic. Good idea.

yea but that building could be used somewhare else.plus having an unused building is a bit specialy when other civics have 3 or more buildings
if we add the bad side lets put them everywhare.what about a taliban bomb unit about islam (just an example
. dont pretend that bombings dont happen

what about ........

Thunderbrd unless you add three good unique civic buildings for every civic and three bad for the same civic i thing it will be very unfair

I actually requested Suicide Bombers back for RoM/AND. Them along with Petards would get the Kamikaze promotion and could do major damage to units in return for sacrificing the unit. I just have not found or made the graphic for the units yet.

I'm with ewok and thunderbird, I want to be able to create an aztec anarcho-marxist-fascist-copor-nation with re-education centers and public stoning.

Public Stoning would be obsolete by the time you go those. So maybe Guillotine or Electric Chair.

 

[LumenAngel]

Public Stoning would be obsolete by the time you go those. So maybe Guillotine or Electric Chair.

Why make it obsolete?
There are still public stoning, decapitation and others
Just a form of entertainment
(yes, I prefer video games too)

 

[Galacticat42]

Why make it obsolete?
There are still public stoning, decapitation and others
Just a form of entertainment
(yes, I prefer video games too)

Modern day public stoning? You mean Woodstock?

 

[LumenAngel]

Modern day public stoning? You mean Woodstock?

I mean some islamist theocracy

 

[Galacticat42]

I mean some islamist theocracy

Yea, I already got that. If you can't take a bit of American silliness then fine, just say so.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Bumping for CIVPlayer8.

 

[lilcsg199]

Im with you on the simple mod mod. Let people decide if you want it in game. No one will force you. But I think not to include it at all abit hypocritical and a little offensive as its pretending it didnt happen. And we should be remembering, whether its in history or a game. Unfortunatly it is as integral to history as much as it is horrfic like slavery and the crusades, it just one of the mainly sad things humanity has gone through to get to better englightenment. But as I said maybe just tone it down to work camp or put it in a optional mod mod. How the conditions inside your "work camp" is up to the imagination.

It shouldn't be a civic building though, to be historically accurate the people who "invented" the concentration camp were the English. They put Germans into camps in WWI, and don't forget that America also put Japanese into camps also.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It shouldn't be a civic building though, to be historically accurate the people who "invented" the concentration camp were the English.

In the Napoleonic War. It was a step up from what went before being more humane. I am struggling with implementing something that will simulate the way people captured in war were treated. Currently I am thinking
- early on we are talking 1-2 persons per unit so integrating them into society.
- then comes the idea of slavery and serfs
- then the idea that rich people are important and that you can cash them in (ransom them back) the rest die or become slaves
- then prisoners - who are either put in a jail or made to work for the duration - they get released at the end of the war.
- then prisoners of war which requires prisoner or war camps....

On the civilian line there are rules your nation "signs up to" which gives relationship boosts with other nations for example
- No attacking Civilian Units (Settlers, workers or missionaries(?) )
- No attacking military support units (healers, baggage trains...)

 

[lilcsg199]

In the Napoleonic War. It was a step up from what went before being more humane. I am struggling with implementing something that will simulate the way people captured in war were treated. Currently I am thinking
- early on we are talking 1-2 persons per unit so integrating them into society.

This could work exactly like subduing animals, but only the aspect, possibly base how much by the differences of . So 4 vs 2 could give a possible 2 ?
Could require Warfare? Or make some kind of prisoner line of technology?

- then comes the idea of slavery and serfs

Do we already have something that generates slaves off of battle? I have no idea I don't use the slavery civic.

- then the idea that rich people are important and that you can cash them in (ransom them back) the rest die or become slaves

Not certain how to go about this.

- then prisoners - who are either put in a jail or made to work for the duration - they get released at the end of the war.
- then prisoners of war which requires prisoner or war camps....

- for higher occupants in jail in exchange for + sounds good.

On the civilian line there are rules your nation "signs up to" which gives relationship boosts with other nations for example
- No attacking Civilian Units (Settlers, workers or missionaries(?) )
- No attacking military support units (healers, baggage trains...)

^ This all all sounds great.
Making more options in diplomacy would be great for the game, something like this could require Political Philosophy?

All these ideas sound solid, one way you can handle captured units or "prisoners" could be through a new civic category for the management of POWs. "Intergration" to convert them into which could give a negative culture effect and/or with Nationalist. And so on...