Civics Improvements Suggestions

[gay_Aleks]

Has unhappiness ever been a lategame problem? I don't see it, honestly.

 

[Pepo]

In my current game runing Superhuman I'm having problems with unhappiness with war weariness at deity difficulty. Granted that most of the times Paradise will be more appealing, but I can see it working due to the rev reduction (really the changes of rev due to civ size make going big harder. To bad I can always buy cities out, maybe you shouldn't be allow to pay cities if you did recently)

 

[Vokarya]

Hive is the "dystopian future" Society civic. It doesn't completely negate unhappiness, but the civic + its Hab Complex civic building will take off about half your unhappiness from population, and then you can use resources and buildings to take care of the rest.

 

[<Nexus>]

I would say that home world would be more fitting for a future religion rather than a civic

Well I had such a modmod idea too that adds fictional future religions. Such as:

• Homeworld (spaceship oriented)
• Bene Gesserit ( oriented)
• Brotherhood of Nod (military oriented)

I wonder if anyone would be interested in such a modmod?

 

[Vokarya]

I like the idea of future religious civics, although I would probably go with "Will to Power" for a non-religious conquering civic, and "Transcendent" for a universal-morality, build up to Ascension Gate civic.

The joker is what happens when the civilization that gets Shwedagon Paya adopts one of these civics before the Medieval Era begins. You can't make things too powerful or that's a recipe for disaster. Tying the primary benefits to a civic building (like I did for Virtual) would probably be the safest bet.

 

[Pepo]

Would it be possible that certain civics aren't unlocked by wonders? For example Shwedagon Paya could unlock every religious civic except atheist and possible future civics

 

[Vokarya]

Would it be possible that certain civics aren't unlocked by wonders? For example Shwedagon Paya could unlock every religious civic except atheist and possible future civics

Not without modifications to the code, which probably wouldn't be worth it.

Theoretically, you could lock off a civic by making it incompatible with a large part of another category. So if a Religion civic was incompatible with most Economy civics, and you didn't have a Wonder that unlocked all Economy civics, then you would be forced to wait until you got the first Economy civic before you could get the Religion civic in question. But again, I think that would be not very elegant.

That said, splitting the abilities between the civic itself and its civic building can be done without hurting anything. For example, +3 happiness and No State Religion from a religion civic would actually be underpowered compared to Reformation and Secular, but could be used with other civic abilities as a balancing factor.

 

[<Nexus>]

I would probably go with "Will to Power" for a non-religious conquering civic

Where is that from? Movie? Book? Game? I'm just not familiar wit it.

The joker is what happens when the civilization that gets Shwedagon Paya adopts one of these civics before the Medieval Era begins.

Oh, I forgot SP again... Than (a) either forget the trans-human religious civics or (b) change Shwedagon Paya's bonus. Since I know well enough you wont do (b) I stick for (a).

Tying the primary benefits to a civic building (like I did for Virtual) would probably be the safest bet.

No, that's very unfortunate and artificial. It's totally immersion breaking when you have access to a futuristic civic in the early game even if it's useless without it's civic building.

-Mr Washington. We can adopt Virtual Rule policy.
-Ah, forget it. It would hurt more than help without the ability of building Voting Links.
-What is a Voting Link, sir and why cannot we build it?
-Well... it requires Computers.
-Sir?
-Computers are advanced machines but they require electricity.
-Do you mean lightning?
-Sort of...

Not without modifications to the code, which probably wouldn't be worth it.

It would worth it.

 

[Vokarya]

I think I've come up with a mechanical identity for Mercantile and that is basing it around free Specialists, like it is in BTS.

For Mercantile's civic abilities, this is the package:

• +1 free Specialist per city
• +15% commerce per city
• -25% foreign trade income -- or more; I could see this going to -50%
  
• No Foreign Corporations

For a better civic building, I suggest Trading Company. Trading Company takes over Free Port's mechanics. I've never really liked Free Port, mostly because it's a coastal building and I don't think civic buildings should be limited that way.

• +1 commerce/domestic city, max 5
• +1 commerce/3 foreign cities, max 25 -- under Mercantilism, some foreign trade is allowed but not as much
  
• +1 free Merchant

Trading Company is not necessary for East India Company or Adam Smith's Trading Company. I try not to put too many restrictions on World Wonders. Trading Company is also not limited to coastal cities.

With Trading Company taking Free Port's mechanics, the civic building for Free Market and Corporate is the Stock Exchange.

• Requires Corporation tech and a Bank
• +15% gold
• 2 Merchant slots

This lets you have more Merchants but you have to devote specialists to them.

The English Stock Exchange becomes the Royal Exchange.

 

[<Nexus>]

For Mercantile's civic abilities, this is the package:

• +1 free Specialist per city

Do you mean a free Merchant?

Trading Company is not necessary for East India Company or Adam Smith's Trading Company.

but maybe it could give a little bonus in building speed? Just an other random idea.

But it all sounds good to me.

 

[Pepo]

If we want to represent that there is a limit to foreign trade, I would change the maximum from 25 to 10 commerce from foreign cities, and change the 1 commerce per domestic city to 1 commerce per two domestic cities with a maximum as well of ten. And I think a merchant slot would be better than a free specialist

 

[<Nexus>]

If we want to represent that there is a limit to foreign trade, I would change the maximum from 25 to 10 commerce from foreign cities, and change the 1 commerce per domestic city to 1 commerce per two domestic cities with a maximum as well of ten. And I think a merchant slot would be better than a free specialist

Well, taking a little research into Mercantile I see how hard it is to represent it in the game. + for importing gold and silver and - for exporting gold and silver is not possible by game terms, only a +/- foreign trade income.
I think this the right place where we could use the mint Gold and Silver mechanics, because that's the closest to Mercantile's "maximize the accumulation of gold and silver". This mechanic encourages the player not to sell his Gold and Silver but to trade even for more. I'd use that instead of the +1 free Specialist per city.

 

[gay_Aleks]

The Gold and Silver minting mechanics are kind of poor, though. Buildings such as Jewellery can give you a lot more from Silver/Gold than the bonus from Coinage. Perhaps the bonus should be boosted somewhat.

 

[Vokarya]

Do you mean a free Merchant?

You get a free Specialist of any type with the civic -- it's about self-sufficiency and you get whatever you need from your own cities. You get a free Merchant from the civic building.

but maybe it could give a little bonus in building speed? Just an other random idea.

But it all sounds good to me.

I was thinking something along those lines, yes.

 

[Vokarya]

Well, taking a little research into Mercantile I see how hard it is to represent it in the game. + for importing gold and silver and - for exporting gold and silver is not possible by game terms, only a +/- foreign trade income.
I think this the right place where we could use the mint Gold and Silver mechanics, because that's the closest to Mercantile's "maximize the accumulation of gold and silver". This mechanic encourages the player not to sell his Gold and Silver but to trade even for more. I'd use that instead of the +1 free Specialist per city.

The XML code for that routine cuts off all gold and silver and there is no choice about it; I think it's not a very well-done mechanic.

Coinage is getting +50% production of Market and Bank instead of the minting mechanic. That way it jump-starts your gold production but doesn't produce too much gold early on.

 

[<Nexus>]

The XML code for that routine cuts off all gold and silver and there is no choice about it;

I know. I think it could be another "Life is either this or that." decision.
I totally agree on removing it from Coinage because you didn't really have a choice regarding minting.
But putting it on Mercantile you have the choice: convert gold and silver into money and lose the other abilities of those resources OR stay with Coinage.

 

[Vokarya]

I want to stick with +1 free specialist on Mercantile and make it the "self-sufficient" civic. Mercantile will be the only Economic civic with this ability (Democracy and Communalism will have it too, but they are in different categories) and I think it gives Mercantile a very tight theme. Planned should be the Economy civic of pushing hammers at the expense of just about everything else. If necessary, I would rather give Planned a maintenance break on city distance rather than giving it free specialists.

The minting mechanic doesn't care how much gold or silver you have; it's an all-or-nothing binary, so it's not worth trading for more. I haven't traded resources in a very long time, so I don't know if you can even trade under Coinage, but if you can, this encourages getting rid of all but 1 copy of the resource. I just don't like the mechanic in general, but I don't have the DLL programming skills to change it, so I'd rather not use it at all.

 

[<Nexus>]

The minting mechanic doesn't care how much gold or silver you have; it's an all-or-nothing binary, so it's not worth trading for more.

Afforess said that it does matter how many resources you have. Of course it may be still a wrong information...

I don't know if you can even trade under Coinage, but if you can, this encourages getting rid of all but 1 copy of the resource.

IIRC you can trade them.

 

[Vokarya]

For the sake of completeness, is there room for ANY other Government category civic? I don't think there is. Not counting Chiefdom, we have a fairly well-defined spectrum of participation from Despotism (no participation) through Federation (lots of participation to the point of near-decentralization). So there doesn't seem to be room for anything else.

If we don't, then I think the Government, Rule, Economy, and Military categories are defined well enough for testing purposes, and we can move onto Society. I have an idea for what I want to do with Slavery.

 

[Pepo]

I would say a system similar to what they got in the USSR and now they have in China. You can participated in government, but you need to be part of the ruling party. It isn't despotism because the leaders maybe be replace within the legal framework. In general, I would say an oligarchic civic that focus on warfare for the late game period, as currently Federation, democracy and republic focus more on the peaceful side

Also for something more exotic I will go for an anarchy government based on the CNT and the black army of Nestor Mankhov.