Civics Improvements Suggestions

[HorseshoeHermit]

A symbol for bitcoins is exactly as generic as a symbol for dollars.

 

[<Nexus>]

The line is still there -- the problem line is on the inside of the frame. I think I need the image unframed, and then I can put the regular frame on it.

Is this what you meant?

I know it would be easier to just tell the original image but I want to do it right

A symbol for bitcoins is exactly as generic as a symbol for dollars.

I agree... however... bitcoin may not be as well known as $ so here's another quickie.

I'm not so satisfied with it though

That cyber-lock is truly a a good one.

 

[Vokarya]

The Tribute icon is good once I paste my frame over it.

This is the frame I use on all my buttons:

When I put that frame on the previous Tribute image, it left a one-pixel streak down the left edge and it stood out in-game. The newest one doesn't have that problem.

I like the Digital one, but it has the same line problem that was just removed from Tribute. Remove that, and I think we can use that icon for the Digital economy civic, the padlock for Cyberwarfare, and save the current Cyberwarfare icon for something else. The current Cyberwarfare icon is not a very specific image so it's a nice one to have hanging around in the icon atlases just in case.

 

[<Nexus>]

I had no idea that you are using that square frame
I don't like it because it doesn't always look good in the pedia or else.
For example civics screen:
Round frame:

vs square frame:

I thing it looks awful and I don't suggest it

So I was using this round frame:

However here's a square framed button for you:

 

[Arakhor]

A frame with rounded edges would look more attractive, I agree.

 

[Vokarya]

I had no idea that you are using that square frame
I don't like it because it doesn't always look good in the pedia or else.

The frame goes on when I'm working with a PNG/JPEG, before I convert to a DDS and add the alpha channel. The alpha channel takes care of rounding off the button.

All of the buttons currently in the mod are organized into atlases and use that same frame plus the alpha channel.

 

[Vokarya]

I've come around to the idea of liking Community Center as the Atheist civic building. I liked my Temple of Reason idea but it's not something I have to defend to the death.

This is what I think would work:

• +2 ; if we ever replace Atheist's current mix of religion penalties with a flat Religions have no effect, this would probably drop to +1.
  
• +1
• Either 1 Artist and 1 Scientist slot, or a flat +2 and +2 per turn. I think the former would be better.

I feel like this should go to a Modern Era tech, though. The Industrial Era has many buildings already. Historically, they are late Industrial, but pushing things off might be better to balance the eras.

 

[Vokarya]

There are some things that I did not get to in rev1067. I wanted to get a new version out there, and the holdup was graphics for the new civics and civic buildings. I worked to get those in place so that I could upload the new version and get it rolling.

Has anyone ever gotten the Holy prefix on their civilization name using Dynamic Civ Names? You are supposed to get it if your religious freedom is less than -9, but Intolerant has a religious freedom of -9 exactly. I also tried Theocracy + Divine Cult and never got Holy. If I set the threshold to -8, then Intolerant triggers Holy.

I'd like to play with the religious freedom numbers to get Holy to trigger on Intolerant or Theocracy, but not Atheist. The other factor involved with religious freedom is minority religions requesting a civic change, which occurs if the current level is less than 0 and the new level would be greater than 5, or the current level is less than -5. In the original version of Revolutions, this would trigger requests to change Theocracy to any other religion civic, or Organized Religion to Free Religion.

 

[<Nexus>]

The frame goes on when I'm working with a PNG/JPEG, before I convert to a DDS and add the alpha channel. The alpha channel takes care of rounding off the button.

All of the buttons currently in the mod are organized into atlases and use that same frame plus the alpha channel.

Okay, I proved to be stupid again.
I didn't know of that alpha channel trick. What truly confused me is that I really have seen such lame buttons in other mods and I thought... but than it's okay

I've come around to the idea of liking Community Center as the Atheist civic building. I liked my Temple of Reason idea but it's not something I have to defend to the death.

This is what I think would work:

• +2 ; if we ever replace Atheist's current mix of religion penalties with a flat Religions have no effect, this would probably drop to +1.
  
• +1
• Either 1 Artist and 1 Scientist slot, or a flat +2 and +2 per turn. I think the former would be better.

I feel like this should go to a Modern Era tech, though. The Industrial Era has many buildings already. Historically, they are late Industrial, but pushing things off might be better to balance the eras.

Make it

• +2
• +2
• +2 (this late in the game it's not that much, IMO)
• 1 Artist slot

Cut the rest. It has nothing to do with Scientist, or .

Has anyone ever gotten the Holy prefix on their civilization name using Dynamic Civ Names? You are supposed to get it if your religious freedom is less than -9, but Intolerant has a religious freedom of -9 exactly. I also tried Theocracy + Divine Cult and never got Holy. If I set the threshold to -8, then Intolerant triggers Holy.

I often get it in Chronicles with Theocracy.
Here's how it looks like in there. Hope it helps.

Spoiler :

        <CivicInfo>
            <CivicOptionType>CIVICOPTION_POWER</CivicOptionType>  
            <Type>CIVIC_THEOCRACY</Type>
            <Description>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_THEOCRACY</Description>
            <Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_THEOCRACY_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
            <Strategy>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_THEOCRACY_STRATEGY_C</Strategy>
            <!--<Help><!-\-TXT_KEY_CIVIC_REPUBLIC_HELP-\-></Help>-->
            <Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Civics/Theocracy.dds</Button>
            <TechPrereq>TECH_PRIESTHOOD</TechPrereq>
            <iAnarchyLength>1</iAnarchyLength>
            <Upkeep>UPKEEP_MEDIUM</Upkeep>
            <iAIWeight>0</iAIWeight>
            <iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
            <iGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iGreatGeneralRateModifier>
            <iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>
            <iStateReligionGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iStateReligionGreatPeopleRateModifier>
            <iDistanceMaintenanceModifier>0</iDistanceMaintenanceModifier>
            <iNumCitiesMaintenanceModifier>15</iNumCitiesMaintenanceModifier>
            <iHomeAreaMaintenanceModifier>0</iHomeAreaMaintenanceModifier>
            <iOtherAreaMaintenanceModifier>0</iOtherAreaMaintenanceModifier>
            <iCorporationMaintenanceModifier>0</iCorporationMaintenanceModifier>
            <iExtraHealth>0</iExtraHealth>
            <iFreeExperience>0</iFreeExperience>
            <iWorkerSpeedModifier>0</iWorkerSpeedModifier>
            <iImprovementUpgradeRateModifier>0</iImprovementUpgradeRateModifier>
            <iMilitaryProductionModifier>0</iMilitaryProductionModifier>
            <iBaseFreeUnits>0</iBaseFreeUnits>
            <iBaseFreeMilitaryUnits>0</iBaseFreeMilitaryUnits>
            <iFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>0</iFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>
            <iFreeMilitaryUnitsPopulationPercent>0</iFreeMilitaryUnitsPopulationPercent>
            <iGoldPerUnit>0</iGoldPerUnit>
            <iGoldPerMilitaryUnit>0</iGoldPerMilitaryUnit>
            <iHappyPerMilitaryUnit>0</iHappyPerMilitaryUnit>
            <bMilitaryFoodProduction>0</bMilitaryFoodProduction>
            <iMaxConscript>0</iMaxConscript>
            <bNoUnhealthyPopulation>0</bNoUnhealthyPopulation>
            <iExpInBorderModifier>0</iExpInBorderModifier>
            <bBuildingOnlyHealthy>0</bBuildingOnlyHealthy>
            <iCivicHappiness>0</iCivicHappiness>
            <iLargestCityHappiness>0</iLargestCityHappiness>
            <iWarWearinessModifier>0</iWarWearinessModifier>
            <iFreeSpecialist>0</iFreeSpecialist>
            <iTradeRoutes>0</iTradeRoutes>
            <bNoForeignTrade>0</bNoForeignTrade>
            <bNoCorporations>0</bNoCorporations>
            <bNoForeignCorporations>0</bNoForeignCorporations>
            <iCivicPercentAnger>0</iCivicPercentAnger>
            <bStateReligion>0</bStateReligion>
            <bNoNonStateReligionSpread>0</bNoNonStateReligionSpread>
            <bFreeReligion>0</bFreeReligion>          
            <iStateReligionHappiness>1</iStateReligionHappiness>
            <iNonStateReligionHappiness>-2</iNonStateReligionHappiness>
            <iStateReligionUnitProductionModifier>20</iStateReligionUnitProductionModifier>
            <iStateReligionBuildingProductionModifier>20</iStateReligionBuildingProductionModifier>
            <iStateReligionFreeExperience>0</iStateReligionFreeExperience>
            <bNoCapitalUnhappiness>0</bNoCapitalUnhappiness>
            <iTaxRateUnhappiness>0</iTaxRateUnhappiness>
            <YieldModifiers>
                <iYield>0</iYield>
                <iYield>0</iYield>
                <iYield>0</iYield>
            </YieldModifiers>
            <CapitalYieldModifiers>
                <iYield>0</iYield>
                <iYield>0</iYield>
                <iYield>0</iYield>
            </CapitalYieldModifiers>
            <TradeYieldModifiers/>
            <CommerceModifiers>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
            </CommerceModifiers>
            <CapitalCommerceModifiers>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
            </CapitalCommerceModifiers>
            <SpecialistExtraCommerces>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
            </SpecialistExtraCommerces>
            <SpecialistCommercePercentChanges>
                <SpecialistCommercePercentChange>
                    <SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_PRIEST</SpecialistType>
                    <SpecialistCommercePercents>
                        <iCommercePercent>0</iCommercePercent>
                        <iCommercePercent>50</iCommercePercent>
                        <iCommercePercent>0</iCommercePercent>
                        <iCommercePercent>0</iCommercePercent>
                    </SpecialistCommercePercents>
                </SpecialistCommercePercentChange>
            </SpecialistCommercePercentChanges>
            <Hurrys/>
            <SpecialBuildingNotRequireds/>
            <SpecialistValids>
                <SpecialistValid>
                    <SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_PRIEST</SpecialistType>
                    <bValid>1</bValid>
                </SpecialistValid>
            </SpecialistValids>
            <ForbiddenCivics>
                <ForbiddenCivic>
                    <CivicType>CIVIC_OLIGARCHY</CivicType>
                    <bForbidden>1</bForbidden>
                </ForbiddenCivic>
                <!--<ForbiddenCivic>
                    <CivicType>CIVIC_DEMOCRACY</CivicType>
                    <bForbidden>1</bForbidden>
                </ForbiddenCivic>-->
                <ForbiddenCivic>
                    <CivicType>CIVIC_LIBERAL</CivicType>
                    <bForbidden>1</bForbidden>
                </ForbiddenCivic>
                <ForbiddenCivic>
                    <CivicType>CIVIC_MARXIST</CivicType>
                    <bForbidden>1</bForbidden>
                </ForbiddenCivic>
                <ForbiddenCivic>
                    <CivicType>CIVIC_SECULAR</CivicType>
                    <bForbidden>1</bForbidden>
                </ForbiddenCivic>
                <ForbiddenCivic>
                    <CivicType>CIVIC_ATHEIST</CivicType>
                    <bForbidden>1</bForbidden>
                </ForbiddenCivic>
            </ForbiddenCivics>

            <BuildingHappinessChanges>
                <BuildingHappinessChange>
                    <BuildingType>BUILDINGCLASS_HOLY_OFFICE</BuildingType>
                    <iHappinessChange>1</iHappinessChange>
                </BuildingHappinessChange>
            </BuildingHappinessChanges>
            <BuildingHealthChanges/>
            <BuildingCommerceModifiers/>
            <FeatureHappinessChanges/>
            <ImprovementYieldChanges/>
            <!-- Revolution Mod Start -->
            <iRevIdxLocal>0</iRevIdxLocal>
            <iRevIdxNational>0</iRevIdxNational>
            <iRevIdxDistanceModifier>25</iRevIdxDistanceModifier>
            <iRevIdxHolyCityGood>1</iRevIdxHolyCityGood>
            <iRevIdxHolyCityBad>2</iRevIdxHolyCityBad>
            <iRevIdxSwitchTo>50</iRevIdxSwitchTo>
            <fRevIdxNationalityMod>0</fRevIdxNationalityMod>
            <fRevIdxBadReligionMod>0.5</fRevIdxBadReligionMod>
            <fRevIdxGoodReligionMod>0.5</fRevIdxGoodReligionMod>
            <fRevViolentMod>0</fRevViolentMod>
            <iRevReligiousFreedom>-20</iRevReligiousFreedom>
            <iRevLaborFreedom>0</iRevLaborFreedom>
            <iRevEnvironmentalProtection>0</iRevEnvironmentalProtection>
            <iRevDemocracyLevel>-20</iRevDemocracyLevel>
            <bCommunism>0</bCommunism>
            <bFreeSpeech>0</bFreeSpeech>
            <bCanDoElection>0</bCanDoElection>
            <!-- Revolution Mod End -->
            <bFixedBorders>0</bFixedBorders>
            <WeLoveTheKing>NONE</WeLoveTheKing>
            <Flavors>
                <Flavor>
                    <FlavorType>FLAVOR_MILITARY</FlavorType>
                    <iFlavor>0</iFlavor>
                </Flavor>
                <Flavor>
                    <FlavorType>FLAVOR_RELIGION</FlavorType>
                    <iFlavor>10</iFlavor>
                </Flavor>
                <Flavor>
                    <FlavorType>FLAVOR_PRODUCTION</FlavorType>
                    <iFlavor>1</iFlavor>
                </Flavor>
                <Flavor>
                    <FlavorType>FLAVOR_GOLD</FlavorType>
                    <iFlavor>1</iFlavor>
                </Flavor>
                <Flavor>
                    <FlavorType>FLAVOR_SCIENCE</FlavorType>
                    <iFlavor>0</iFlavor>
                </Flavor>
                <Flavor>
                    <FlavorType>FLAVOR_CULTURE</FlavorType>
                    <iFlavor>1</iFlavor>
                </Flavor>
                <Flavor>
                    <FlavorType>FLAVOR_GROWTH</FlavorType>
                    <iFlavor>0</iFlavor>
                </Flavor>
            </Flavors>
            <UnitCombatProductionModifiers>
                <UnitCombatProductionModifier>
                    <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MISSIONARY</UnitCombatType>
                    <iProductionModifier>200</iProductionModifier>
                </UnitCombatProductionModifier>
            </UnitCombatProductionModifiers>  
            <iGlobalRelationsChange>-1</iGlobalRelationsChange>  
            <iReligionSpreadRate>-34</iReligionSpreadRate>
        </CivicInfo>

 

[Vokarya]

I often get it in Chronicles with Theocracy.
Here's how it looks like in there. Hope it helps.

You've got religious freedom cranked up all the way to -20. The Holy prefix would certainly be expected at that point. I would like to know if anyone has seen it in the unmodded game.

 

[<Nexus>]

You've got religious freedom cranked up all the way to -20.

Actually I just copied that part from C2C. Maybe you should consult with them too.

 

[Pepo]

Okay so I got some feedback for the new version. Overall I like it,but I have a few suggestions:
- For government civics, I would suggest that despotism gets a military civic related building at industrial age to make it a viable option. The rest I believe are well balanced an are optimal in different situations,so I don't think further changes are needed now. I still argue for a oligarchy type of government to be production related, but is mostly for flavour (want to recreate communist nations)
- For welfare I would increase the costs of both subsided and socialized, to make private more viable, as health> happiness in this category. Also, charity could be without upkeep, after all the government isn't spending anything
- For foreign policy, the only change I would made is to remove the +33% of commerce from imperium. Rigth now it completely outperforms other policies , giving tons of commerce. The only bonus it should give is the seized commerce, that is still a powerful bonus but that is tied with your military might, so that this policy should only be run with big armies. I would also change interventionism 25% from domestic trade to 10% from foreign trade routes to make it more appealing
- As for religion, I'm under the impression that divine rule -50% from population make it far more useful than it should be, making it much better for happiness control than personality cult( that should be the go to civic for happiness) . I would change divine rule to make it a more capital center focus, with extra culture and commerce instead of gold. The unhappiness removal from population would be chop out, but considering that it gives a extra 3 happiness from ceremonial altar and standing stone, it should be a decent early religious civic

Now as for economic civics, I believe that free market is completely OP specially on bigger maps. In my game (large,totestra) the 50% from foreign trade routes is giving me 1500 commerce. Overall foreign trade is really powerful in AND , so any policy that increase it tend to be a non brained. I would nerf free market to the previous 20% extra commerce and cut the spending gold to rush production (this mechanic makes more sense in regulated and corporate). Also regulated has always seem to me as a weak civic compare to the others, so maybe some buffing could be nice

Moving to the military civics, I really like the changes overall. I think that some further tuning could be done:
- banditry could use some maluses like barter to force the player to change it as soon as possible. I often stay with it until pacifism or fealty to avoid the maluses early warfare civics give. I would suggest lower military unit production and no foreign trade routes ( the second being justified as traders being assaulted by your troops)
-I would remove the conscription +50% from population. Extra unhappiness from war already makes it a risky civic for longer wars, but the unhappiness from population makes it unviable once you got cities that can use the draft.
- for the reasons given above, I would remove the extra commerce from foreign trades in Naval supremacy. Except pacifism, military civics shouldn't give bonuses for civilian economy. The same about the extra research in unnmanned, I don't think that it is needed.

Now as for society civics and slavery, I have mixed feelings towards it. Simply put the amount of production you can get with this civic is insane. The slave specialist are incredible for building up cities but the food they consume lower growth. The slave market also gives the best bonuses in their category with extra production and gold and one free slave. However in the other hand, the extra yields from titles doesn't give so much of an advantage ( the extra food will probably go for slaves) and the extra unhappiness can be a bit problematic. The slaves you are using doesn't give GPP, so that's another drawback. On late game when liberal and communalism are unlocked ( nationalism -50% foreign commerce makes it unviable) slavery isn't probably the best option, but before they arrive there is hardly an alternative. Caste is completely outclass, giving you the same bonus for production (15%, same as the market) a civic building that's is worst than the slaves and a huge penalty for GPP generation, the only advantage being that it makes people less unhappy. Proletariat extra happiness and health are good, but extra production is much better. Feudal got a good civic building and boost improvements, but it hurts commerce and doesn't give you better bonuses over slavery that also boost improvements but also gives you more gold and production. Finally burgeois gives you less hammers, overall less gold ( unless you spam merchants) and has one of the worst civic building (villa needs a boost; I would suggest removing the need to employ a citizen). Liberal focus on different things so it isn't comparable, while communalism outperforms slavery thanks to the extra food and all the boosts it gives. Hive is probably the worst of this group as the no foreign city connections make it a bad choice in most cases. So what changes are needed? I believe that nerfing the slave market to a free slave and +2 commerce should be a good starter. If we remove the extra hammers and gold, caste and burgeois would be much more appealing. The extra two commerce is also inferior to the one of the shanty town and the villa, but early game it can be appealing. I believe that this change could improve things, but if further action is required maybe boost the other things, so for example caste can use slave slots from the shanty town( to represent the lower classes of society) or burgeois give extra gold per city instead of only boosting markets and merchants. In resume, slavery is still to good and makes burgeois and caste not optimal choices

Finally, as for rule civics I like the overall picture with many viable options, so I won't suggest anything until I have played more

I like a lot the changes made, and I greatly appreciate the work and effort you put on balancing the mod , so keep it up

 

[Vokarya]

Just looking at Conscription: what would be the impact if we removed both the extra unhappiness from population and the general military production bonus, leaving only the ability to draft units and the increased war weariness? It would actually make Conscription a fairly "safe" civic, without the impact of Warrior Caste or the extra cost of Mercenaries.

 

[Vokarya]

Also, Banditry needs a better name. It's not really about banditry; I think of it as being "mob defense". The only military you have is whatever you can scrounge up to defend your homeland, with no real organization of any kind.

That said, a military production penalty, probably on the order of -25%, wouldn't be that bad.

 

[<Nexus>]

Just looking at Conscription: what would be the impact if we removed both the extra unhappiness from population and the general military production bonus, leaving only the ability to draft units and the increased war weariness? It would actually make Conscription a fairly "safe" civic, without the impact of Warrior Caste or the extra cost of Mercenaries.

Very good!

Also, Banditry needs a better name. It's not really about banditry; I think of it as being "mob defense". The only military you have is whatever you can scrounge up to defend your homeland, with no real organization of any kind.

That said, a military production penalty, probably on the order of -25%, wouldn't be that bad.

Militia?
In Chronicles I'm giving it a -100% Great General. That's a good reason to leave it as soon as possible and it also helps GGs: you won't get points for hunting and won't run out of GG names so early.

 

[Arakhor]

The fyrd was the Anglo-Saxon peasant militia scrambled to defend a settlement. Levies might be a more generic term.

 

[<Nexus>]

...or Hunters?
Your "military force" consists of the hunters of the tribe.

 

[Vokarya]

How about Horde? It gets the "disorganized rabble" feeling across.

Also, I like the -100% Great General generation. I agree that would be enough of a negative to obviate the need for any additional penalties.

 

[Arakhor]

I think that's too close to Banditry, personally.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

don't forget you have the 'hoard' building (Treasure), horde of massed population, might be a bit too close together and confuse people.