Civics Revolution Poll

[Provolution]

We recently got Feudalism in a peacedeal with Rome, it is high time to change civics, and we do need to do it now to avoid waste.

1. Status Quo - No change in Civics
2. Change in Civics upon conquering the pyramids from Germany
3. Changes before conquering the pyramids from Germany
4. Changes without conquering the pyramids from Germany
5. Abstain

Another Poll will decide which civics we should choose.

 

[Joe Harker]

edit
said something stupid.

 

[donsig]

I'll abstain. What civics do we have now and what others are available?

 

[Hyronymus]

I'll abstain. What civics do we have now and what others are available?

I'm with you this time, donsig. Also, is there an on-going discussion about this matter or is "just" your wish, Provolution.

 

[Provolution]

Hyronymus

This is about us getting Feudalism right now, and the pyramids very likely in 3-4 turns, which means the time for a civics change is quite near. No need to be sarcastic and poisonous as usual, I just stated that we may change civics now or then, not a difficult question at all. We will come back to the semantics later.

 

[DaveShack]

I object!

"Change civics" without any kind of indication of what to change them to is not an actionable instruction. As a citizen I request it be marked invalid.

 

[donsig]

I'd like to point out here DaveShack that the vote is currently 0/4/0/0/5 and abstain has a majority. The voting is not yet done but it would be interesting to see the end result and how this poll would have been handled in a only majorities are decisions ruleset.

 

[ori]

I object!

"Change civics" without any kind of indication of what to change them to is not an actionable instruction. As a citizen I request it be marked invalid.

This request is being reviewed by the Judiciary.

 

[Provolution]

Well, we need to agree on finding the best time for a change, then agree on what the change should be.

 

[ori]

Well, we need to agree on finding the best time for a change, then agree on what the change should be.

I disagree, we need to decide whether a specific change of civics is better then the status quo, e.g. do we want to change to pacifism (I have no clue about our current civics nor the currently available ones...) or do we want to stay in organised religion - So IMO a good poll would give civic choices and include as one choice the current civic. As it is set up now the next poll would not need to include the current civics (i.e. no change) - so that people could be forced to vote for a change they actually do not want...
So: We need to agree whether we want to change and what that change would be - and then decide on when to implement this...

 

[Provolution]

-I tried to put this in the discussions, but except for Dutchfire and a couple of others, it is like talking to the wall. If you teaspoon them the options it is wrong, if you try to segment them its wrong, if you want change its wrong. No posting in the civics threads almost. It could be we are too few people here, or that the efforts is only done by a handful. Any idiot can see we need a change in civics, yet, people seem inept to go for a change for some odd reason.

 

[ori]

-I tried to put this in the discussions, but except for Dutchfire and a couple of others, it is like talking to the wall. If you teaspoon them the options it is wrong, if you try to segment them its wrong, if you want change its wrong. No posting in the civics threads almost. It could be we are too few people here, or that the efforts is only done by a handful. Any idiot can see we need a change in civics, yet, people seem inept to go for a change for some odd reason.

Then propose one (or all that are available and make sense ) E.g. from what I see from this screenie in the State of the Empire thread:



I see that we currently have no sensible way of switching from Hereditary rule - so we leave that for the moment. On the Legal Civic we can switch from Bureaucracy to Vassalage - both are valid choices: poll them. On Labor any of the three available ones can be polled. Economy and Religion we have no choice. So do two polls for Legal and Labor and a third for Government (assuming we get the pyramids. If the Government one gives Hereditary rule (i.e. no change - I would indicate that in a poll) then we don't need to wait for the pyramids. If the other two go for a change go for it, if none does even better. Only if people want to switch away from HR one could poll for wait for the pyramids or not, or even do all of that at the same time. People who don't want a change now can then vote for no change on all civics polls and all is well...

 

[Provolution]

With Pyramids, we will also be able to choose all government Civics, including Representation, Police State and Universal Suffrage, in less than four turns from now, as I am to conquer Berlin for you.

 

[Provolution]

This is why this poll makes sense, since the options available, is pending on the outcome of the German War Poll, and the Conquest of the Pyramids.

One scenario could be a German peace, where they give Monotheism, and we conquer the pyramids, which alone there add 4 poll options to Feudalisms 2.

 

[ori]

With Pyramids, we will also be able to choose all government Civics, including Representation, Police State and Universal Suffrage, in less than four turns from now, as I am to conquer Berlin for you.

That's why I said:

So do two polls for Legal and Labor and a third for Government (assuming we get the pyramids. If the Government one gives Hereditary rule (i.e. no change - I would indicate that in a poll) then we don't need to wait for the pyramids.

Basically what I mean is: give people the chance to decide whether and which change they want, i.e. poll all options (incl. no change) in one poll. If you split that into 3 polls for each branch: fine as long as people can vote no change in each of them...

 

[ori]

This is why this poll makes sense, since the options available, is pending on the outcome of the German War Poll, and the Conquest of the Pyramids.

One scenario could be a German peace, where they give Monotheism, and we conquer the pyramids, which alone there add 4 poll options to Feudalisms 2.

x-posting

No, "Do you want change?" does not make sense - "Do you want change to Represantation?" makes sense - and by splitting it into polls that end at the same time for each branch you don't get too many poll options either...

Oh and with Germany giving techs: we just declared on them didn't we - so it will be a while before they give anything... I would not bother too much about that now - if we get there and really want OR we just loose a turn of Anarchy...

 

[Provolution]

the problem is that we cannot make a revolution in 5 turns following a completed revolution, added to anarchy, so we may lose 5-8 turns per civic group just there, not bundling the revolutions in one go. It seems that some are numb to that reality. But we can run three polls, one for each group, then have a run-off poll. Problem then is that the civics are not seen as a strategy system, as they should be.

 

[ori]

the problem is that we cannot make a revolution in 5 turns following a completed revolution, added to anarchy, so we may lose 5-8 turns per civic group just there, not bundling the revolutions in one go. It seems that some are numb to that reality. But we can run three polls, one for each group, then have a run-off poll. Problem then is that the civics are not seen as a strategy system, as they should be.

I don't propose to revolt each civic group on its own, just poll them -if a change in all is desired, that should be regarded as a yes to one big revolt for all three...

 

[ori]

I object!

"Change civics" without any kind of indication of what to change them to is not an actionable instruction. As a citizen I request it be marked invalid.

@DaveShack: Do you uphold your request now that the other polls are up?

 

[DaveShack]

The other polls make the situation worse, if anything.

Someone with an axe to grind can take the results of all these polls out of context with each other to force the people into his preferred civics configuration, even if nobody else agrees with that specific combination.