Civilization 5 and Steam(works)

[The_Coyote]

I doubt that this is true at all. Steam is a lot like Amazon or the iTunes Store; it is a very convenient and efficient way to advertise and sell new games. I think that *far more* people will end up buying CiV simply because they will be exposed to it on Steam than will not purchase it because it's on Steam.

Not having a game on Steam is like not having a book on Amazon or a song on iTunes, IMO. You can still sell a lot without using these delivery systems. But you'll be losing a lot of sales.

You know this answer is a bit off from the actual discussion. It would only made sense if someone assumes that steam would only sell civ5 if the games comes with steamworks - and without steamworks they wouldn´t sell it.

The topic here is the implemention of steamworks - a game which is sold on steam don´t must have steamworks, it would only be true if Valve would demand it*. So the game could still be sold there (also not losing the sales there) without steamworks. Only the persons who will only buy the game because of steamworks (most likely person who only play multiplayer games and don´t accept [or like] any other mulitplayer platform or can´t live without ingame browser or steam achievements) would be lost sales.

* And that would be something that evil (it would only work if Valve would have the market power and would abuse this power) from Valve that it i wouldn´t believe it

Edit: i know sometimes the use of steam and steamworks is not really consistent here - which can cause misunderstandings

 

[Acronym2]

I am among the ranks of the hold-outs on Civ5 and will likely continue to Mod and play CivIV because of disinterest in Steam Works. I still do fantasize that Firaxis may release a stand-alone Civ5 version a few years down the road........but that's not likely to happen unless a fairly significant number of fans fail to migrate to Civ5 and Firaxis decides they would like to pick-up those sales towards the end of the game's developement cycle.

Civ4 Maps Compatible with Civ5
Written by Provost Martin
That’s right, you’ll be able to import Civ4 maps into Civ5. Just how that will work with squares contra hexes is unknown, but if this works right from the bat it will mean a huge immediate boost to custom content right at the release. This was confirmed by Jon Shafer in an interview with Bitmob:

Jon Shafer: You can import Civ 4 maps into the world builder and convert them into Civ 5 maps, including all the units and cities and stuff on it — the conversion process will just do that for you automatically. We’re hoping that the first week Civ 5 is out, people will use that function and port all of the Civ 4 stuff over to Civ 5, so everything will be out there already. (It is also interesting to note that one gets the impression that Civ5 may be Civ4 based in a similar way that CivIV was to Colonization.)

Furthermore the in-game browser will be able rate mods and sort them by ranking and by tags. You can also enable, disable and install them in the modifications manager. The game’s SDK (game code) will also be released, just as it was with Civ4. A world builder tool will be included, which features scenario-making capabilities such as controlling who’s at war with who, placing units and cities, and much more.

Source: CivFanatics

As one can see from this article I found, Civ5 is getting some interesting features, and Firaxis is really making an effort to lure moders and moded content from CivIV over to Steam as soon as the game is released. At least that's how it looks. It is probably no coincidence that many of those features are things we've been long requesting here at civfanatics. (It also appears closely CivIV based like Colonization was.)

 

[bjbrains]

See my post in the other thread. It's been clarified that only maps can be converted, and that Civ 5 uses a new/heavily recoded engine (based on GDC), it's not civ 4 based at all.

 

[Acronym2]

See my post in the other thread. It's been clarified that only maps can be converted, and that Civ 5 uses a new/heavily recoded engine (based on GDC), it's not civ 4 based at all.

What type of engine is the code based on? (GDC?)

 

[bjbrains]

What type of engine is the code based on? (GDC?)

Well, I don't quite know/understand the specifics, but you can see their presentation about their new engine (focused on its scalability) over at http://www.gdcvault.com/free/recent?sort_by=speaker&type[0]=1&type[1]=2 . It definitely does show major differences though (I'm pretty sure it's still coded in C++, but that python has been replaced by LUA.)

 

[PieceOfMind]

Releasing a game on Steam does not necessitate that all copies of the game from all retailers depend upon Steam, just like releasing a book on Amazon or a song on iTunes does not require that copies of those media sold elsewhere be activated by Amazon or Apple. See Football Manager 2010 as an example of a game which provides an option to attach itself to Steam, but does not require it for retail copies—if the game is not activated through Steam, it uses a disc check instead. This approach allows people to reap the benefits of Steam if they so choose, but still allows people to install and play the game under any circumstance in which they do not have access to Steam’s servers, something which is far more important for such a timeless game as Civilization than for a yearly release like Football Manager.

Very well said. Thank you.

 

[Commander Bello]

But you'll be losing a lot of sales.

Releasing a game on Steam does not necessitate that all copies of the game from all retailers depend upon Steam, just like releasing a book on Amazon or a song on iTunes does not require that copies of those media sold elsewhere be activated by Amazon or Apple. See Football Manager 2010 as an example of a game which provides an option to attach itself to Steam, but does not require it for retail copies—if the game is not activated through Steam, it uses a disc check instead. This approach allows people to reap the benefits of Steam if they so choose, but still allows people to install and play the game under any circumstance in which they do not have access to Steam’s servers, something which is far more important for such a timeless game as Civilization than for a yearly release like Football Manager.

I, too, want to completely agree with thirdgeek's posting.

Making Steam mandatory is, what we are against.
Nobody wants to forbid mp games, or restrict mp gamers options.

Yet, we don't want our options (to choose whether to install and sign in onto Steam) being restricted, either.
Unfortunately, based on obscure (and to the best of my knowledge, never revealed) "market surveys" 2K has decided for the moment to go down that path, thus limiting options for the purchaser of the game.

 

[arstal]

I doubt that this is true at all. Steam is a lot like Amazon or the iTunes Store; it is a very convenient and efficient way to advertise and sell new games. I think that *far more* people will end up buying CiV simply because they will be exposed to it on Steam than will not purchase it because it's on Steam.

Not having a game on Steam is like not having a book on Amazon or a song on iTunes, IMO. You can still sell a lot without using these delivery systems. But you'll be losing a lot of sales.

You can make a game without Steamworks DRM, and still sell it on Steam.

 

[azzaman333]

So, Firaxis will lose 70 sales from using Steam according to this poll.

I don't think they're going to care.

 

[Greybriar]

Releasing a game on Steam does not necessitate that all copies of the game from all retailers depend upon Steam, just like releasing a book on Amazon or a song on iTunes does not require that copies of those media sold elsewhere be activated by Amazon or Apple. See Football Manager 2010 as an example of a game which provides an option to attach itself to Steam, but does not require it for retail copies—if the game is not activated through Steam, it uses a disc check instead. This approach allows people to reap the benefits of Steam if they so choose, but still allows people to install and play the game under any circumstance in which they do not have access to Steam’s servers, something which is far more important for such a timeless game as Civilization than for a yearly release like Football Manager.

I, too, share your view.

So, Firaxis will lose 70 sales from using Steam according to this poll.

I don't think they're going to care.

You have such a way with words.

 

[Danthor]

I will buy Civ 5 no matter what, I'm too addicted
But in the case Steam is required to play, I will disable/hack/kill/nuke it and go for the pirated version.

Moderator Action: We have zero tolerance for software piracy.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[12agnar0k]

Steamworks,

I've seen people come to the assumption that Valve is using thier market position to force frixasis to use Steamworks.

This is not the case. Frixasis/2kGames I assume do not wish to host servers, provide patches, have servers for multiplayer, so they have delegated this off to Steam, Steam may very well have asked them to do so, because it will benfit them. Having each copy of the game come with Steamworks is what the problem is with some users. Which means no matter where you by your game from you will need to register a Steam account and have Steam running on your computer to play any games with Steamworks. Which will include Civ5, I have several other games with Steamworks, mainly optional from downloading them with Steam as apposed to getting the game elsewhere. But if Steamworks is a neccesity to run a game its not a problem with me, I have no problem with Steam taking up 59,288k of my total 2,090,000k Ram. In return I get an always online friend list so I can chat to any friend that picks my fancy and access to several games without any need to go find a disk. I can see Steam possibly being a problem if you like to have as few processes running as possible, but with me, this is not the case, my PC is riddled with stuff I don't need running lol, currently I have 60 processes running on my PC o.0.
Steam only is 1 process, which you can turn off if you arent using it, or indeed have it so it doesn't load up when you start your PC, this way you choose when you want it running in the background, which will be when you want to play Civ5. I prefer to have it on all the time, but thats a personal preference. Just consider it if you will a necessary second .exe file to run the game, games like CNC have 2 .exe files running to play the game, so whats the difference between that and Steam. Steam is simply there for your benefit, and the benefit of Frixasis/2kGames. As well as thier own benefit, we all benefit. Great.

 

[arstal]

None of that stuff is the issue people have with Steam.

It's the whole we can brick your games that you paid for if you do something against our rules, which we're the arbiters of- and the whole DD monopoly thing that are the things people have issue with.

Also the whole we can overcharge you, and if you chargeback to protect your rights- you lose all your games.

The only person benefitting from Steam.exe is Valve. Not the consumers. The thing I respect most about Valve is their ability to convince people that DRM is for their benefit- which is truly marvelous PR/propaganda.

 

[Senethro]

Huh, divisions within the anti-steam crowd appearing. 3 different people within the past few days saying their pet issues are the only ones anyone has with Steam.

arstal: How can Steam overcharge you?

 

[arstal]

MIstakes happens, like accidentally adding a 0. Not saying Steam's going to do anything evil, but fatfingers happen. Steam support is notoriously slow, and feels even slower when they have more of your money then they should.

BTW: the fact there are divisions just shows the amount of problems people have with Steam are varied. Also, I think the reason 2K forced Steamworks on Firaxis is because they thought it would not cause the ruckus Securom would have (they were partially- I think Securom Civ V would have caused more, but less intense anger- you can crack Securom)

2K is too short-sighted a company to realize that DRM iis not needed for a game like Civ.

Impulse the support is much , much quicker- especially if you know how to use IRC, even quicker even if you don't.

 

[Senethro]

Also, I think the reason 2K forced Steamworks on Firaxis

[citation needed]

 

[arstal]

Simple inference.

Firaxis and Stardock have a very positive relationship. It's a known fact that both teams during GalCivII and Civ IV helped each other out in their alphas- and each game cited the other for ideas during development. Brad Wardell himself was going to do mods for Civ V due to his relationship with Firaxis, until the Steamworks announcement. Sid Meier, given the business and personal relationships, wouldn't have chosen to hurt Stardock deliberately- and he knew Steamworks would do that. The order had to have come from someone above him.

Also, 2K has a history of imposing draconian DRMs. Firaxis didn't before 2K took them over.

Firaxis had my trust. 2K has NEVER had my trust.

 

[Senethro]

Simple inference.

Firaxis and Stardock have a very positive relationship. It's a known fact that both teams during GalCivII and Civ IV helped each other out in their alphas- and each game cited the other for ideas during development. Brad Wardell himself was going to do mods for Civ V due to his relationship with Firaxis, until the Steamworks announcement. Sid Meier, given the business and personal relationships, wouldn't have chosen to hurt Stardock deliberately- and he knew Steamworks would do that. The order had to have come from someone above him.

Also, 2K has a history of imposing draconian DRMs. Firaxis didn't before 2K took them over.

Firaxis had my trust. 2K has NEVER had my trust.

This is strategy game developer fanfiction.

 

[Danthor]

I will buy Civ 5 no matter what, I'm too addicted
But in the case Steam is required to play, I will disable/hack/kill/nuke it and go for the pirated version.

Moderator Action: We have zero tolerance for software piracy.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Ye, my bad.
I meant I would disable the malware called "Steam"

Moderator Action: we have zero tolerance for software piracy, advocating such will not be tolerated.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[bite]

Ye, my bad.
I meant I would disable the malware called "Steam"

Malware, short for malicious software, is software designed to infiltrate a computer system without the owner's informed consent.

If your going to protest something, please use the correct terminology, Steam is not malware or adware or a big phishing scam to steal your credit car information. Steam could be an annoying persistent background interface needed to run the game, as well as, chew up some processing power but that's it. This constant misrepresentation on both sides is getting tiresome.