Civilization 5 and Steam(works)

[Acronym2]

People of CivFanatics: Steam is nothing to worry about! I have used Steam for 3 years and never had a problem with it (Except for one time I got a keylogger, but Steam support fixed that for me and I was playing just fine again.) It gives you a community, automatic updates, and lots and lots of free features for both the developer and the consumer. Plus, Steam often hosts insane sales. (19 THQ games for 50$, for example.)

Look, I'm not neccessarily trying to bash Steam. (These Steam debates sometimes get a little heated.) However, you don't consider a keylogger nothing to worry about? That is perhaps one of the worst infections a computer can get! A keylogger can be used to easily steal credit/debit card numbers, pin numbers, account information, personal information, etc,etc............it records every keystroke you make on your machine in a file that is sent to or accessed by the attacker!

As I said earlier, I'm not neccessarily knocking Steam, but if it was a contributing factor to your keylogger infection, it is of concern. It seems that if Steam technical support helped you to remove the keylogger than Steam might have had something to do with its transmission to your machine.

Nobody here has yet entered into an inteligent debate about Steam with regard to its technical functioning when it comes to security, what permissions it has over our systems and such. Steam, in part, will function as a web browser and instant messenger along with a DRM capability as well as initiate transactions. The Steam Subscriber Agreement specifies (among other things) that they will not be held liable for damage and loss resulting from viruses contracted through the use of Steam.

The fact that Steam has so many users and will, apparently, be adding many more makes it a very attractive target. I do not think it unreasonable or "fear mongering" to merely raise the queston of security.

 

[Acronym2]

Sorry, double posted. (Must be time for me to go to sleep......yawn!) Might as well use it for something!

My issue is that they don't let you pay for anything, unless you give them rights to draw from your checking account. Combine that with mandatory binding arbitration kangaroo courts if they hose you over, and the inherent security risks, and you've got a recipe for disaster. No thanks.

Hey guys, is PayPal really this..........buggy? I've made a purchases or two through them some time ago via credit card.

Then again, I had noticed that they don't seem to be as "tight" as some of the others. Providing a routing number and check number for your bank account (or a bank account number) is the worst option for an on-line purchase and should really be avoided. I have a credit card that I only use for on-line tranactions. (Let them steal the credit card company's money instead of mine! They can well afford it and have the resources to combat it, unlike most of us. lol!) If you don't have or can't get one, open up another bank account with a debit card and only use it and that account for on-line transactions. This way you have more control if your number does get stolen. You'll know fairly fast and only need to cancel/reissue a single card. In addition you have just one statement to check for bogus transactions.

(Oh, a word to the wise.........if you ever see small denomination charges on your statement like $1.00 or some such small change that you don't remember charging or to a vendor you don't remember doing business with............be alerted that your card information may have been compromised. The crooks will often submitt a small charge like that just to check that the card/account is active.)

 

[Methos]

(Oh, a word to the wise.........if you ever see small denomination charges on your statement like $1.00 or some such small change that you don't remember charging or to a vendor you don't remember doing business with............be alerted that your card information may have been compromised. The crooks will often submitt a small charge like that just to check that the card/account is active.)

This isn't fully accurate. If the $1 transaction is from someone you used, then its legit. For example, you pay gas with your card and notice later that there's a $1 hold on your account. Basically the company uses this to make sure the account is legit, before allowing you to use your card. The $1 transaction will eventually be dropped from your account and in its place will be the amount you actually spent.

On the actual topic, is the game only coming out on Steam, or will there be other versions as well?

 

[The_J]

Depends on what you exactly mean.
You'll be able to buy a DVD in a box from the next game shop, but this version will still need a steam account and steam running on your system.

 

[Methos]

In other words, we're forced to use Steam no matter what.

 

[ori]

you missed some minor discussion going on about it around these parts

 

[bonscott]

My issue is that they don't let you pay for anything, unless you give them rights to draw from your checking account. Combine that with mandatory binding arbitration kangaroo courts if they hose you over, and the inherent security risks, and you've got a recipe for disaster. No thanks.

Real easy to protect yourself:

1) Tie PayPal to a 2nd free checking account from your bank that has virtually no money in it, like $25 bucks or something. Then you're protected. I just did that at my bank and they actually do it all the time they said.

2) Get the security FOB from PayPal and then you can't log in unless you have that physical FOB and enter in the number it displays. This prevents anyone from hacking your account.

 

[AriochIV]

Those 53 of you (at current count) who voted that you won't buy Civ V because of Steam....

....are liars.

 

[bonscott]

Those 53 of you (at current count) who voted that you won't buy Civ V because of Steam....

....are liars.

Not me. I refuse to buy any game that forces Steamworks and Steam on me. So right now on my buy list that includes Civ 5 and Fallout New Vegas. If either ever release a GOTY edition that doesn't have Steam as a requirement then I will buy. Otherwise any game that has Steam required is a no sale for me, period.

 

[The_J]

I would need a new PC and the release will conflict with the begin of my master thesis, so it's relativly easy for me not to buy it -> no lie, i'll not buy civ5.

 

[mjs0]

Real easy to protect yourself:

1) Tie PayPal to a 2nd free checking account from your bank that has virtually no money in it, like $25 bucks or something. Then you're protected. I just did that at my bank and they actually do it all the time they said.

We do the same thing for any and all online purchases; we just move into the account the amount we are about to spend and use the linked Visa checkcard. My wife is a bank manager and she suggests this to her customers all the time.

The only thing I would add is to make sure you have the bank disable any automatic overdraft facilities so you can't get dinged for being overdrawn if you get overcharged or there is a later unexpected additional charge. With the overdraft facility turned off the charge just gets denied at no expense to you.
(The fee for allowing you to overdraw can be $40+ per transaction, even for a $1 purchase.)

 

[AriochIV]

I would need a new PC and the release will conflict with the begin of my master thesis, so it's relativly easy for me not to buy it -> no lie, i'll not buy civ5.

I believe you, but neither of those reasons has anything to do with Steam.

 

[The_J]

I believe you, but neither of those reasons has anything to do with Steam.

Right, but i would have tried to get a new computer before and to find somehow free time to play it. Would have been hard, but i would probably be able to manage it.
But this disadvantage...no need for even a try to manage it.
It will need less willpower to resist the desire, but steam is still the reason why i don't buy it.

 

[Jaybe]

Scrap! I voted will probably buy regardless of Steam without seeing the will DEFINITELY buy regardless, which is the truth.

 

[The_J]

You wanted the last one, but voted for #2?
Can be changed, if you wish to.

 

[muxec]

Just registered on Steam and ordered some game to verify whether it is bad or not.

 

[Acronym2]

On the actual topic, is the game only coming out on Steam, or will there be other versions as well?

Sadly........no. Just a digital download and a dvd, but both will use Steam and require a Steam account. (I am interested to see if Firaxis throws out a DRM free/Standalone version in the coming years, but I doubt this would ever happen.)

 

[arstal]

If enough people complain/hold out on purchasing/make it known they don't like Steam.

Odds are while Civ V won't be released from Steam. Civ VI will. I'm willing to sacrifice Civ V for a better Civ VI.

 

[PeterWimsey]

If enough people complain/hold out on purchasing/make it known they don't like Steam.

Odds are while Civ V won't be released from Steam. Civ VI will. I'm willing to sacrifice Civ V for a better Civ VI.

I doubt that this is true at all. Steam is a lot like Amazon or the iTunes Store; it is a very convenient and efficient way to advertise and sell new games. I think that *far more* people will end up buying CiV simply because they will be exposed to it on Steam than will not purchase it because it's on Steam.

Not having a game on Steam is like not having a book on Amazon or a song on iTunes, IMO. You can still sell a lot without using these delivery systems. But you'll be losing a lot of sales.

 

[thirdgeek]

I doubt that this is true at all. Steam is a lot like Amazon or the iTunes Store; it is a very convenient and efficient way to advertise and sell new games. I think that *far more* people will end up buying CiV simply because they will be exposed to it on Steam than will not purchase it because it's on Steam.

Not having a game on Steam is like not having a book on Amazon or a song on iTunes, IMO. You can still sell a lot without using these delivery systems. But you'll be losing a lot of sales.

Releasing a game on Steam does not necessitate that all copies of the game from all retailers depend upon Steam, just like releasing a book on Amazon or a song on iTunes does not require that copies of those media sold elsewhere be activated by Amazon or Apple. See Football Manager 2010 as an example of a game which provides an option to attach itself to Steam, but does not require it for retail copies—if the game is not activated through Steam, it uses a disc check instead. This approach allows people to reap the benefits of Steam if they so choose, but still allows people to install and play the game under any circumstance in which they do not have access to Steam’s servers, something which is far more important for such a timeless game as Civilization than for a yearly release like Football Manager.