Civilization 5

[viator]

System More Open

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Civ 4 is a great game. In the line from Civ – Civ2 – Civ 3 -Civ4 you can see a typical development. Lets call it a increasing “player-democracy”. It started with the ability to mod it, some other games also have that in some way, and it now (Civ4) is completely open to (re)program much of it yourself on different levels. That is more than just adding detailed, beautiful or historical graphics, however great, the mods of Civ4 can change the mechanics of the game to almost new games or the rebirth of games.
Like the “rebirth” of the great Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri (SMAC) and Alien Crossfire (SMACX) in the MOD Planetfall by Maniac.
There are many sophisticated mods and now even modmods. And the list is still growing!
See Civilization Fanatics' Forums > Civilization4 > Civ4 - Creation & Customization >Civ4 - Modpacks
In my opinion the main cause that Civ4 is still very much alive.

To continue this development in Civ5 it is obvious to make it even more open.
In this way of thinking nowadays modding can be considered as a inside way to change, it may be interesting to look at the outside as well. The idea is to make the game interact with other software outside. Software to be written by the users (also in python?) just like it is written for the mods within the limits of Civ4. Software that is out of limits to create play fields next to the game, but still interacting wit it. Just adding new possibilities.
For instance:
One of the great concepts in SMAC was the workshop in which you could create your own units with those technologies of the tech-tree that were available to you at that moment. The more you advanced in the tech-tree the better troopers or copters etc you could design. The workshop was the great toy of SMAC.
In the discussion around the Planetfall mod we see the boundaries of Civ4:

See Civilization Fanatics' Forums > Civilization4 > Civ4 - Creation & Customization >Civ4 – Modpacks > Planetfall , Page 54, Message 1065 and further


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfeffersack
Like LT, I don't really understand what you mean. Are you missing certain special abilities? Then it would be best to point out which together with a suggestion how they could work within the engine of Civ4. If you miss the workshop feature itself... as I wrote in cursive, the scope of the Planetfall Mod is the Civ4 engine. It can be no 1:1 conversion and it is also not intended that way by Maniac (because then we wouldn't have many nice things from Civ4 as well). A SMAC workshop is impossible (see also the FAQ entry), biggest problem the AI not using it. So there is no gain bringing up such a general request again (BTW, the workshop was a great toy in SMAC, but OTOH had some serious balance issues...and I'm not sure if they could be resolved by just making some things costier or if they a just inherent design issues of the WS, which allows you to create "best units" all the time); also like LT pointed out, the promotion-style special ability system allows already nearly anything SMAX had. Automation routines fall in the same category...would require tons of work, if possible at all, for very limited gain (many players don't automate at all and would hate it if forced or ignore it, if it is optional) - I would prefer a better AI in regard to understanding the features of PF a lot over automation, given that ressources for development are always limited.

You can help Planetfall a lot more by bringing up specific requests (like a unit/SE choice/building/... you miss, together with an idea how to implement in PF), reporting bugs/AI issues or discussing some of the current topics in the subforum (ideas for implementing the SMAX factions for example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by viator
I also miss the workshop as the great toy of SMAC.
From the explanation above (quote) I understand the Civ4 engine wo'nt permit it.
Is that really the last word?

Still I would encourage thinking about the idea of getting outside the boundary's of the playfield. It could upheavel Civ4 as a whole. (to Civ5 )
For many MOD's ( and ModMods ) it would be a great help to construct something of general software to (temporarely) get besides the engine and then return with some changed parameters.
I have no knowledge about how tightly closed (impermeable) the engine is, but surely you guys know about the input/output model... It cannot be limited to keystrokes and mousemovements only, I guess.

There must be some Leonardo amongst you to solve this !

Just trying to give it a kick, like an old motorbike ..... sometimes it works, maybe it is too hard and it is broken forever .... and we sadley have to accept that this really is the last frontier of Civ4 itself.

Thanks for all great MODs.
Best greetings and good health to you all !
Viator

If we sadley have to accept that this really is the last frontier of Civ4 itself than I would like to add this for the list of Civ5.

For the sake of the discussion I have opened a thread called "System More Open" in the Ideas & Suggestions Forum.
Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=349613

Best greetings,
Viator

 

[Serutan]

Not sure if this was in earlier versions of Civ. But why can't I ship excess food from one city to another? Would be nice to see something like this added.

You could do it in Civ 2 by sending a food caravan from a city with a surplus to
one with a shortage/one you wanted to grow faster.

One thing I'd like to see is if a non-allied military unit crosses your border, it is an automatic
DOW on the part of the trespasser.

 

[EmperorFool]

One thing I'd like to see is if a non-allied military unit crosses your border, it is an automatic DOW on the part of the trespasser.

If you don't have an Open Borders agreement, that's exactly what happens. How should it be different?

 

[EdCase]

Diplomacy needs major improvements. Currently it boils down to:

Attack this guy with me!
Give me this for this!
Give me this or else!
Don't trade with that guy!

Would enjoy much more depth to diplomacy.

Simply follow world politics. It inevitably, once you blow away the frothy bits, comes down to these four basic statements.

 

[Healz]

I think it should not be totally automatic. I liked the Civ III way in same respects of dealing with teritory. There was the chance that nothing would be done, tribute demanded or war declared. What option happens should be based on leader, techs and military power. I am meaning that Ghandi should be less likely to declare war on you over territory infringement than someone like Shaka....

 

[ash874]

i swear if they wont include israel this time
ill download the game illegally burn it on millions of dvds and send it to everyone in israel

 

[EmperorFool]

i swear if they wont include israel this time
ill download the game illegally burn it on millions of dvds and send it to everyone in israel

Consumer terrorism?

 

[Soundwαvє ▼]

I think they call it ''counter-terrorism''...

 

[Vandal Warlord]

I think they call it ''counter-terrorism''...

No.

 

[FiMat]

Here are few ideas for new Civ:
-Rivers should play more important role, expecialy in early stages of game. First ships should be allowed to move on rivers
- later in game you should be able to make canal between lake or two oceans which can generate profit an allow ships to move trough them
- concept from revoulution mod is great (when cities or entire regions can demand independance is great)
- Make some sort of elections if your country is republic, and if your party wins you get beneficies, but if you lose you suffer in production and commerce
- more random events, expecialy nature related, such as Earthquaques, floods, volcano eruptions, famine, once or twice meteor shower or just one small comet
- new tipe of land: like marsh for example (civ 2 had it), new resorces: salt, amber...
- natural wonders, rivers, mountain peaks, deltas, even deserts witch host rare animals or divers animals, later in game if you manage to preserve them you cam transform them in nature park, or reservs, witch will generate happines and profit.
- concept of tourism as something that generates profit is great. for example if you have nature parks or clean cities on beach, or lot of island cites, you generate profit from tourism.
- definety more citie building, maybe concept of profesional sport that generates profit and happines, if citie has stadium it has sport club that participate in commpetitions.
-Cities that can expand to more than one tile and than if you are at war enemy can hold one part of the city and you other, than no one controles the city becouse street fights are occuring there. to win the city you have to controll all parts of it.
- MAKE NEW CIV WORK ON OLDER COMPUTERS, DON'T MAKE IT TOO DEMANDIN SO I HAVE TO BUX NEW COMPUTE TO PLAY NEW CIV

I had many suggestions, some are realistic, aand other are just interestin but need more development. I hope that someone will read this and incoporate it in new civ

Smrt fašizmu, sloboda narodu!!!!

 

[jsweeney]

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Soda7777777]

Yes!! I'm so happy. This is just gonna be a great year for gaming! Yes!!!!!

 

[EmperorFool]

Hooray for hexagonal tiles!

 

[chrissifniotis]

Let's play a game called 'Who's suggestions made it into Civilization V'.

 

[Camikaze]

That will be a fun game to play. I plan to do something just like that when Civ 5 comes out (so we know what the features actually are), although I'm not volunteering to go back and read through this whole thread.

 

[Silurian]

Camikaze@
When it comes out, it will be Civ 6 we have to start talking about

 

[NA00]

I would, of course, like to see significantly expanded diplomacy - I usually try to play diplomatically culturally more than anything else.

I really enjoy playing Civ IV, but what I really find annoying at times is when civs constantly beg for technology. Mali is typically the worst offender in my games. To solve this, I would just like to see an option to refuse to grant an audience like there was in CivII.

Also, I would like to see more relevance as to why a country declares war on me. For example, I was playing a game recently as England, and Mongolia, on the other side of the earth, and LANDLOCKED, decided to declare war on me. We had no meaningful contact before then - I had only spoken with them once prior to that. There was absolutely no fighting between us during this 'war' - they being landlocked on Asia and me being on an island.

I know politics is very difficult to emulate, so I am not asking for a lot. I would just like to see expanded diplomacy and more relevance to some of the computers actions (a landlocked country in Asia declaring war on an island nation in Europe with no provocation or contact makes little sense).

 

[Healz]

You actually can already refuse to grant an audience unless that is just a feature that the Mod Rise Of Man added to the game.

 

[EmperorFool]

That's a RoM feature (Bug Me Not?), but IIRC the effect is the same as denying all of their demands--i.e. you still get the diplo hit.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Also, I would like to see more relevance as to why a country declares war on me. For example, I was playing a game recently as England, and Mongolia, on the other side of the earth, and LANDLOCKED, decided to declare war on me. We had no meaningful contact before then - I had only spoken with them once prior to that. There was absolutely no fighting between us during this 'war' - they being landlocked on Asia and me being on an island.

I know politics is very difficult to emulate, so I am not asking for a lot. I would just like to see expanded diplomacy and more relevance to some of the computers actions (a landlocked country in Asia declaring war on an island nation in Europe with no provocation or contact makes little sense).

During WWI, Liberia declared war on Germany and Austria-Hungary in 1917 to please the Americans; the same thing happened in 1944. Those two events didn't exactly have many practical consequences either, but they show that diplomacy can have such effects.