Civilization 6 Tier List 1.0

[Halfpast_Yellow]

I think Victoria is coming through now as being much more powerful than first impressions because of the Royal Navy Dockyard. Going wide with Dockyard/Commercial cities is strong.

 

[redwings1340]

I think Victoria is coming through now as being much more powerful than first impressions because of the Royal Navy Dockyard. Going wide with Dockyard/Commercial cities is strong.

I feel like the people who haven't played a game with her are underestimating her a fair bit, it's hard to really convey the power of a royal navy dockyard in every city and overseas conquest with free redcoats until you've played it. I didn't expect her to be as good as she is.

They seemed a little better than Rome to me, at least, or at least more powerful if you can survive the early game.

 

[captainpandabear]

Rome is high in almost everyone's list, I don't think they're underrated.

It's not that Rome itself is underrated; rather, it's that the Legion unit isn't being given full credit. Rome has other strong benefits, but to me the Legion unit is actually the strongest of all of them, perhaps tied with the monument. It's difficult to overstate the usefulness of getting jungle/forest/marsh clearing out of your military units.

 

[spfun]

I would like to play England for a different reason, the 6 slot museums that are guaranteed to be themed sounds awesome with my experience with the game thus far. The half cost/free harbors is great as well though will require water and i like Pangaea maps the most.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I was very bearish on Victoria at first because she has an assortment of late-game bonuses, and Civs like that usually suck. But amassing as many trade routes as possible is really proving to be a dominant strategy, and no one is better at that than Victoria. She's not even that map dependent because you only have to be in the general vicinity of the coast to benefit from the Royal Navy Dockyard. You're reasonably likely to get some use out of it on a Pangaea map and virtually guaranteed to benefit from it on a Continents map. Contrast Norway, whose abilities are almost guaranteed to be wasted on a Pangaea map.

Even the British Museum UA is actually better than I expected, because Culture Victory is a very effective way to win games of Civ VI (certainly much easier and faster than a science victory). The map is just full of archaeological sites, and the AI doesn't seem too interested in taking the artifacts, so filling a ton of museums is achievable (I got five completed on a Small map in my game).

One small annoyance is that only museums in originally British cities benefit from the UA. I built archaeological museums in some captured cities, expected super-powered British versions, but I just got the normal 3 slots. That's a little thing though.

I'm not as crazy about the Redcoat as some, but yeah, I've decided England is at least mid-tier.

 

[CurtisManning]

Scythia and Sumeria should be God tier.

Those early units are pretty much unstoppable.

 

[elitetroops]

Anyone has any first hand experience with Saladin? I'm having a game in progress, and he's just... I can't make up my mind.

He has no early combat bonuses, but currently regular archers seem to be doing just fine in conquering deity AI, so early UUs are not quite as OP as they used to be (talking about single player). I mean, I'm sure Scythia and Sumeria make it a whole lot easier, but anyone can do it. It's not like Civ IV where Incas could spam Quechuas from T0 to take out deity AI with ease, while no other civ could dream of taking cities until much later.

There's an odd conflict with Saladin when he gets super cheap worship buildings (30 faith) that also give an extra boost to science, culture and faith, but you're not encouraged to build early holy sites, as he doesn't need GPP to found a religion. So now I'm looking at those sweet worship buildings, but I don't feel like building holy sites anywhere as they're already so expensive. Early on I spammed campuses instead (put down 5 of them before the cost reached 100 production) for the early supercharged university. Those are pretty sick indeed. Had my first factory built in the BCs. Since those Madrassas are so good, I feel all new cities should also get campuses before they get holy sites. That would make holy site the 4th or 5th district, so basically I never get to build them. Maybe I'd see more worship building action if I hadn't started next to Kongo, who couldn't build holy sites for me...

I'm still making a decent amount of faith thanks to the Madrassas, but since I got last pick of religious beliefs, there's not that many useful things I can do with it. I guess he is meant to go Theocracy, but I just wouldn't want to take that detour.

Mamluks... eh, super expensive. Until they get rid of the hidden production bonuses to ancient and classical units there's little point warring with medieval units.

For now I'd still rate Saladin in the "good" tier, mainly because of the Madrassa. If there was some more synergy, if he got half price holy sites or something so that they would be worth building, then he could rise up to great.

 

[isau]

The lowest ranking right now I think belongs to Spain. (In saying that, I think even the lowest tier civs in this iteration are still interesting to play. By giving all of the civs a lot of abilities, all of them seem to be useful for something.)

There are a couple of issues with Spain that make this an uphill battle.

1. Religion focus without reliable means of founding religion. A.k.a. the "Theodora problem" from Civ 5. Spain gets no bonuses to Wonder building, nor cheaper Holy districts, nor early Faith bonuses to aid buying out a Prophet. And yet Spain's entire ability set depends on founding the religion. If it fails (and you often will at higher difficulties) Spain loses most of its useful abilities, short of playing puppet to someone else's religion. Even civs with no religion focus (Japan) are better at getting a religion.

2. Unique tile improvement. The tile improvement (the Mission in this case) is a poor substitute for a building (which is a little better) or a district (which is loads better because of cheaper cost and freebie ability to build it in spite of population--buildings and improvements need to be brought up to match this). The Mission also gets most of its bonuses from foreign continents.

3. Start bias. Wow is it bad. I rerolled as Spain over and over in search of a decent start. Philip far too often starts on a coast without river and often in very flat territory.

 

[isau]

Anyone has any first hand experience with Saladin? I'm having a game in progress, and he's just... I can't make up my mind.

He has no early combat bonuses, but currently regular archers seem to be doing just fine in conquering deity AI, so early UUs are not quite as OP as they used to be (talking about single player). I mean, I'm sure Scythia and Sumeria make it a whole lot easier, but anyone can do it. It's not like Civ IV where Incas could spam Quechuas from T0 to take out deity AI with ease, while no other civ could dream of taking cities until much later.

There's an odd conflict with Saladin when he gets super cheap worship buildings (30 faith) that also give an extra boost to science, culture and faith, but you're not encouraged to build early holy sites, as he doesn't need GPP to found a religion. So now I'm looking at those sweet worship buildings, but I don't feel like building holy sites anywhere as they're already so expensive. Early on I spammed campuses instead (put down 5 of them before the cost reached 100 production) for the early supercharged university. Those are pretty sick indeed. Had my first factory built in the BCs. Since those Madrassas are so good, I feel all new cities should also get campuses before they get holy sites. That would make holy site the 4th or 5th district, so basically I never get to build them. Maybe I'd see more worship building action if I hadn't started next to Kongo, who couldn't build holy sites for me...

I'm still making a decent amount of faith thanks to the Madrassas, but since I got last pick of religious beliefs, there's not that many useful things I can do with it. I guess he is meant to go Theocracy, but I just wouldn't want to take that detour.

Mamluks... eh, super expensive. Until they get rid of the hidden production bonuses to ancient and classical units there's little point warring with medieval units.

For now I'd still rate Saladin in the "good" tier, mainly because of the Madrassa. If there was some more synergy, if he got half price holy sites or something so that they would be worth building, then he could rise up to great.

I think Saladin is underpowered right now because of Science being too easy. I have no doubt that will be fixed and that is when this civ will shine a little brighter.

I don't think he's god tier, but he's good, and beyond that, fun to play. The issue with him is as you said--the whole idea of the Last Prophet is getting the final prophet free. And yet you still need a Holy Site to found the religion.

I agree that early Campuses are how he's supposed to be played, but unfortunately early Campuses are out of alignment with the primary meta game right now (Commercial sites followed by Industrial). He gets no discount on either the Holy or Campus district so it's a very tight squeeze fitting everything in.

Being generally the last to found a religion has the additional downside of getting swarmed by enemy AI Missionaries and having them wipe you out literally the turn you found the religion. Because of this you might be forced to make war--be ready to Denounce and War on Ghandi or other religion fiends if you see them running toward you with a missionary army.

I disagree about the Mamluk tho. That unit is amazing. The ability to heal every turn combined with fast movement to get out of range quickly turns out to be crazy powerful. I think only Tomyris can match that ability. Add to this no resource requirement and Saladin is hell on wheels during the age of the Mamluk. He's one of the few AIs you have to really watch because if he comes at you with a Mamluk army you will feel pain, even with the AI in the poor state it's in now.

 

[Morningcalm]

People are seriously not paying attention to how powerful Sumerian war carts are. Available from the start of the game, low hammer cost, no maintenance cost, as much strength as the heavy chariot (which normally you'd need to research the Wheel to get), and an excellent rush unit overall. Sumeria's other bonuses may be meh, but the war cart makes the civ good. Shame the ziggurats are so sucky.

 

[Kwami]

People are seriously not paying attention to how powerful Sumerian war carts are. Available from the start of the game, low hammer cost, no maintenance cost, as much strength as the heavy chariot (which normally you'd need to research the Wheel to get), and an excellent rush unit overall. Sumeria's other bonuses may be meh, but the war cart makes the civ good. Shame the ziggurats are so sucky.

Getting tribal village rewards from barbarian camps is pretty great, though. Especially since your War Carts can easily take out any barbarians.

 

[Morningcalm]

I think it's ok early, but not strong enough to call great in the long-term. It's just ok at best. Even a couple of early techs from a barbarian outpost is just ok overall.

 

[Kwami]

I think it's ok early, but not strong enough to call great in the long-term. It's just ok at best. Even a couple of early techs from a barbarian outpost is just ok overall.

I disagree. First, because getting a bunch of extra rewards early really puts you ahead of everyone else and starts the snowball rolling. Second, because barbarians continue to exist until quite a bit later in the game, so you can continue to take advantage of this bonus to get boosts on more expensive techs, too.

 

[elitetroops]

I agree that early Campuses are how he's supposed to be played, but unfortunately early Campuses are out of alignment with the primary meta game right now (Commercial sites followed by Industrial). He gets no discount on either the Holy or Campus district so it's a very tight squeeze fitting everything in.

I just don't agree at all with the popular opinion to avoid early science. I think people are overadjusting. I go full steam ahead in that department and it works just fine. Slightly more expensive districts don't matter much if you get the factories and power plants up and running 50 turns earlier. Unless you have a factory up very soon, it takes very long for an IZ to pay off. Besides, it's quite a tight beeline to electricity with not too many techs, so the effects on district costs isn't that huge.

Btw. Saladin's ability to buy cheap worship buildings is bugged. They do cost 30 faith, as they should, but unless I have 300 faith available the interface tells me I don't have enough faith to buy it.

 

[Morningcalm]

I disagree. First, because getting a bunch of extra rewards early really puts you ahead of everyone else and starts the snowball rolling. Second, because barbarians continue to exist until quite a bit later in the game, so you can continue to take advantage of this bonus to get boosts on more expensive techs, too.

That all depends on how many barbarian camps you find. If you, like me, find your barbarian encampments are often kills stolen by citystates and other AI, the bonus tends to appear diminished. This bonus would only be good if it reliably worked in the late game on maps other than say, Huge Continents.

 

[Paramecium]

Even civs with no religion focus (Japan) are better at getting a religion.

Hm, Im not sure if that is a good example, because Hojo's LUA cuts the cost of Holy Sites besides Encampments and Theatre Districts in half. So in fact, Japan is besides Russia and Greece (early Mysticism) the one who can get it's Religion the fastest, so it is surely not "not focused" on Religion.

Better example would have been Germany, America, England or France ...

 

[isau]

I just don't agree at all with the popular opinion to avoid early science. I think people are overadjusting. I go full steam ahead in that department and it works just fine. Slightly more expensive districts don't matter much if you get the factories and power plants up and running 50 turns earlier. Unless you have a factory up very soon, it takes very long for an IZ to pay off. Besides, it's quite a tight beeline to electricity with not too many techs, so the effects on district costs isn't that huge.

Btw. Saladin's ability to buy cheap worship buildings is bugged. They do cost 30 faith, as they should, but unless I have 300 faith available the interface tells me I don't have enough faith to buy it.

If the strategy is working for you that's good. I still think they are going to bump science costs up a lot though. At which point, in theory, Saladin should fair better. I do really hope they remove the rising District cost based on tech progress though.

 

[elitetroops]

I still think they are going to bump science costs up a lot though. At which point, in theory, Saladin should fair better. I do really hope they remove the rising District cost based on tech progress though.

I agree 100% with this. Science cost needs to go up. This would also help the Mamluk, as there actually would be something like the medieval era in the game. Rising district costs is also a pain. It forces you to play the game in a very counterintuitive way.

 

[teakbois]

Russia's best ability: To not have an AI 9 starting squares from you in every direction and forward settling you. No one else wants your tundra crap. You may even get lucky and have a city state nearby that doesn't get taken out in the first 20 turns.

 

[isau]

I think Russia's tundra advantage might be overstated, or at least not as great as it sounds. All of the unique improvements can be built on Tundra (granted some of them can have additional requirements) and also on Desert and Snow. It does mean expending a Builder charge to place them, so there's that. But a few other civs can pull that "using the wastelands" trick, such as Egypt with it's Sphinxes or Ghandi with his Stepwells.