Ahriman
Tyrant
Really? Ok. I must not have played them by that time.
With decent strength and a unique promotion they'd be fine.
Civilization Changes
- Thread starter albie_123
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With decent strength and a unique promotion they'd be fine.
mitsho
Deity
I like connecting the Ottomans with internal trade routes, maybe science or culture per internal ones.
I'm not so sure that Great Writers for Poland are a good idea, don't they raise the amount needed for the next ones?
Candidates for my proposed UA above (is it doable?): Sweden, Ethiopia, the Celts, Russia. The latter one does need a new direction anyways, no?
Also, what are the plans for Arabia? New BNW UA or GEM UA? The GEM UA may fit well with the Dutch (flavour wise).
I'm not so sure that Great Writers for Poland are a good idea, don't they raise the amount needed for the next ones?
Candidates for my proposed UA above (is it doable?): Sweden, Ethiopia, the Celts, Russia. The latter one does need a new direction anyways, no?
Also, what are the plans for Arabia? New BNW UA or GEM UA? The GEM UA may fit well with the Dutch (flavour wise).
Ahriman
Tyrant
More strategic resources becomes a meaningful bonus once we cut down their availability.
Agreed. Also, not particularly flavorful, right? Is Poland really known for writers?
mitsho
Deity
I meant regarding the additional Terrain the Krepost provides. I'd rather exchange that for a Soviet Factory Replacement f.e. (with a bonus to wide empire - happiness - or withstanding/promoting ideological pressure), tough that might be a bit late game... It's okay though if the UA is viable early enough.
rhammer640
Russian Monk
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2010
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- 386
I know we dont want to make too many changes to the new civs yet but I find it weird that the Shoshone have the extra starting land....I mean they didnt really have all that much land. I feel that maybe switching that one to Russia (or maybe the US) and giving the shoshone a new one might be better.
albie_123
Modding In Secret
The Shoshone seems to be a bit of a mixmatch of very powerful abilities in general.
rhammer640
Russian Monk
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2010
- Messages
- 386
Yeah, just finally downloading now and checked out their other abilities. Their new scout can choose what goody hut reward to get??? Looks like i know who I will be trying out first
Ahriman
Tyrant
Yes, though choosing one item then eliminates the ability to choose that for the next couple of times. So you can't get 3x pop boosters.
rhammer640
Russian Monk
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2010
- Messages
- 386
Ok, thanks thats not too strong then. 95% downloaded. Come on internets!
albie_123
Modding In Secret
Make sure to play a few games without the mod, if only to appreciate that despite a few problems, Firaxis really have made a great expansion pack. 
Ahriman
Tyrant
It's still pretty strong.... I built a second pathfinder, and got 4 ruins, for +2 pop, +20 culture to get a headstart on Liberty policies for a second city, and +20 faith for a pantheon, which then gave me faith from my 2 quarries (marble and stone), giving me a huge economic headstart.
Shoshone are a very strong civ.
A couple of other things I noticed:
a) I'm not sure that marble is giving a wonder boost anymore?
b) Not being able to build stoneworks in a city built on plains is ridiculous.
c) When most gold and silver appear in singleton tiles, the mint building is terrible.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
One interesting historical fact about Caravansaries: they were especially common in ancient Persia... unique building?
I completely agree! I recommend finishing 1 culture victory, 1 conquest victory, and play at least to the Renaissance with each of the new leaders. Then start trying out mods.
Make sure to play a few games without the mod, if only to appreciate that despite a few problems, Firaxis really have made a great expansion pack.
I completely agree! I recommend finishing 1 culture victory, 1 conquest victory, and play at least to the Renaissance with each of the new leaders. Then start trying out mods.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
(double post)
Ahriman
a) Marble looks like it's only an early game wonder bonus now (ancient/classical).
b) agreed. That's a really lame restriction.
c) GEM seeding is a little better here for gold/silver/(and copper or gems), but it's still a pretty weak building.
a) Marble looks like it's only an early game wonder bonus now (ancient/classical).
b) agreed. That's a really lame restriction.
c) GEM seeding is a little better here for gold/silver/(and copper or gems), but it's still a pretty weak building.
Ahriman
Tyrant
They're all through the Islamic world and fertile crescent. I've seen several in Turkey
They're also all over the Christian world, they just called the coaching inns instead.
mitsho
Deity
Having played one game with France, I'd say they need some work. The Chateau is strong and fun to play, maybe even abit too strong, but the UA is really meh:
1) It doesn't give you anything new, it just doubles it.
2) Its bonus is restricted to one city... (but the whole empire supports it)
3) It requires you to get wonders, if you fail you get nothing (well, 4 tourism or so from the one museum...)
In this sense it's quite similar to Spain's vanilla BNW UA - all or nothing.
We also don't want to reduce France to the Chateau, especially as it isnt that unique. In fact it's quite similar to the Moai and Brazilwood Camp. It's also a wide bonus, which is okay for me, but the UA is tall-like. and it's strong...
I like the idea of the whole empire supporting Paris, but a theming bonus doesn't seem to be the right way
1) It doesn't give you anything new, it just doubles it.
2) Its bonus is restricted to one city... (but the whole empire supports it)
3) It requires you to get wonders, if you fail you get nothing (well, 4 tourism or so from the one museum...)
In this sense it's quite similar to Spain's vanilla BNW UA - all or nothing.
We also don't want to reduce France to the Chateau, especially as it isnt that unique. In fact it's quite similar to the Moai and Brazilwood Camp. It's also a wide bonus, which is okay for me, but the UA is tall-like. and it's strong...
I like the idea of the whole empire supporting Paris, but a theming bonus doesn't seem to be the right way
Ahriman
Tyrant
Yeah, I worried that might be the case. Seems very weak at high difficulty where you can't snag the theming bonus wonders.
Also, +10-15 tourism or so at best just isn't much of a bonus. We probably need to rework the UA.
One idea: could we give extra tourism in the capital based on the number of social policies unlocked? That way we reward their culture output with extra tourism.
Also, +10-15 tourism or so at best just isn't much of a bonus. We probably need to rework the UA.
One idea: could we give extra tourism in the capital based on the number of social policies unlocked? That way we reward their culture output with extra tourism.
mitsho
Deity
I'd personally like to reserve the per policy effect for experience, seems more flavourful to me.
But why not tourism in the capital per culture building built anywhere in the empire (monuments excluded as a nerf). Or 1 tourism per 5 (?) population anywhere in the nation?
I forgot point 4) above. It's a utterly passive ability, you would do all these things anyways.
But why not tourism in the capital per culture building built anywhere in the empire (monuments excluded as a nerf). Or 1 tourism per 5 (?) population anywhere in the nation?
I forgot point 4) above. It's a utterly passive ability, you would do all these things anyways.
Ahriman
Tyrant
I don't really understand what you mean here. France's cultural outputs are surely a key source of it's influence and tourism, so there is decent flavor. And I don't understand why social policies should effect military unit experience.
Why would we want to limit it to only culture from buildings, and not all sources of culture?
And why would we want to be encouraging a wide playstyle, with lots of culture buildings and population?
I think prefer my idea, because it fits better with how France is designed to play: tall/capital-oriented and cultural, going for tourism victory.
Having the bonus from policies unlocked means that all sources of culture benefit you, and getting too wide (and so increasing culture costs per policy) hurts you.
Giving tourism in the capital then gets to cycle through all the various modifiers (hotel, airport, favored religion, etc.) and encourages you to stack all those up.
A culture victory in BNW normally favors a wide style, so it's nice to encourage France to play a bit differently.
I'm sure there are other ways to do it too though.
mitsho
Deity
I proposed above a UA that grants experience to all current and future units on adoption of a policy, giving you experienced units in the late game, but being active from the start. And giving xp to units far away scouting and sitting at home. Such a UA would clash with your idea because both have as trigger the policy adopted. The flavourful comment was mainly directed that tourism-for-policies is "culture/tourism from culture" (same from same) and that it doesn't change the way you play. I'd hope to create a bit of cultural warmongerer above 
France was wide in Vanilla and is still in BNW (the chateau!!), so I was just trying to keep that balanced. Also, very wide (global empire) with a very tall capital fits France like a glove, if we could simulate that... A civ totally focused on culture wouldn't seem very exciting to me, and your proposal would lead a bit to that, no?
I did want to limit it to culture buildings to not make it too strong. I'm not very sure yet on the numbers for BNW Cep though...
France was wide in Vanilla and is still in BNW (the chateau!!), so I was just trying to keep that balanced. Also, very wide (global empire) with a very tall capital fits France like a glove, if we could simulate that... A civ totally focused on culture wouldn't seem very exciting to me, and your proposal would lead a bit to that, no?
I did want to limit it to culture buildings to not make it too strong. I'm not very sure yet on the numbers for BNW Cep though...
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