- Jan 9, 2018
Haha what this guy? I'm starting to think that Disney was the inspiration for every creative decision made in Civ6
I hope that Firaxis made this decision based on what you say and not for some bull PC reason, like they didn't want to give the only muslim leader in the game a sword and armour to appear war like. There are leaders like Hojo Tokimune who appear to be both scholars and warlords. Whenever I interact with Saladin in the game it still feels like I'm dealing with a Merchant not a Badass Warrior Sultan but I don't know thats just me.
Arguably, Tomyris leading the Scythians is therefore somewhat ahistorical, as the Massagetae were not the Scythians per se.The picture drawn of the nomad Massagetae seems very like that of Scythians in a rather ruder stage of development. The tale of Tomyris may bring to mind either the Tibetan gynaecocracy or that of the Samartians. Certainly it appears more closely linked with the latter. The name Massagetae seems to mean belonging to the great (horde), and probably just as all the tribes north of the Pontus were for the Greeks more or less Scythians, all the tribes that were under the "great horde" were regarded by the Persians...as all more or less Massagetae.
Greeting: May nobody say that they didn't hear - blood will be spilled of those who turn against us. But if you are a true friend then we'll become friends.
Agenda-based Disapproval: Loyalty is its own reward. Do you not know this?
Attacked: You have betrayed the trust of Tomyris and now you will pay!
Tomyris never said this to Cyrus, but it alludes to what Tomyris did in Herodotus' story to symbolically quench Cyrus' alleged "thirst for blood". The line should, for greater historicity, have cited the Scythian worship of the sun god (whom Tomyris did swear by when declaring she would have vengeance against Cyrus).Declares War: The Empress calls for your head. You will be drowned in your own blood!
Having finished watching Game of Thrones few days ago, I can agree that it sounds somewhat similar to Dothraki music and Daenerys' theme during her stay in Essos.How does this theme tie to Tomyris? To me personally it recalls the musical theme of Daenerys Targaryen in Game of Thrones in its instrumentation and tone, and this seems fitting to me given that Daenerys is also the widowed warrior queen of a horse-riding warrior culture in Game of Thrones. The tragic tone of the Scythian music may recall the story of Tomyris (who after all lost her son to Cyrus, even if she ultimately defeated Cyrus), or perhaps the ultimate loss of Scythian culture (having been greatly weakened by the invasion of the later Achaemenid monarch Darius I, for example).
Agreed--and yes, the reminiscence is partly due to then instrumentation--Daenerys' themes use the duduk as well, according to Game of Thrones composer Ramon Djawadi (I updated the Tomyris post accordingly). The musical connection between Daenerys and Tomyris was something I felt almost immediately but I didn't connect it to the instrumentation until Geoff identified the duduk specifically in Tomyris' themes.Having finished watching Game of Thrones few days ago, I can agree that it sounds somewhat similar to Dothraki music and Daenerys' theme during her stay in Essos.
I'm not very fond of overly jolly (Brejeiro, Banaha) or bombastic themes. I'm fan of darker themes like Japan or Mongolia. The melancholic and somewhat dark tone of the Scythian themes are the main reasons I like them so much. And Scythian themes are also one of those that evolve well, where I can easily tell the difference between Industrial and Atomic versions.
Online sources are fine, though Google Books can help if you need book sources (in my case putting Seondeok and certain search terms together sometimes have Google Books results).Ok, I will attempt to write an entry for Qin Shi Huangdi/China. Do I need to research a ton for this (like reading books), or are online sources fine?
Guandao can handle that I think! And how Qin's leader ability ties in with his story.
Looking forward to it! It shouldn't take me long to finish Tomyris either, but I've been busy vacationing and planning vacationing this month, and it's tricky to edit these posts on the iPhone. I will likely tackle Catherine de Medici next, as I find her life quite fascinating. Pericles after that, most likely.I'll try mentioning those, even though most of it is unrelated to the game version of China.
mmm i haven't heard the whole thing, only the bit from youtube's "meet the leader" minute. But, what you're hearing sounds like a Javanese gamelan orchestra. Sometimes called an Angklung orchestra, its thought that the English word "Clong!!!" (as in, the noise of a bell) is not actually onomatopeia, but in fact a loan word from angklung.
Anyway, its probably Javanese (jogjakarta maybe) but I might be wrong, there are literally hundreds of tribes it could also be. Just, you know, majapahit, likely to be Java.
Cyrus wasn't really a "backstabber" in history though he is portrayed that way in Civ VI and gets multiple lines hinting at his duplicity. Cyrus was a conqueror, but the title of "backstabber" (in the Civ context of turning on one's former allies) would belong more to Hammurabi, who backstabbed all his allies and took over their lands to create his Babylonian empire. Most people know him for his legal code and civic improvements, but he was definitely a successful warrior too! I certainly hope that when Hammurabi comes back to Civ (maybe in Civ VII?) he is portrayed as a backstabber.I feel conflicted....on the one hand, I support the general idea of this thread. On the other, I feel like such in-depth analysis with walls of text and digging into scholarly literature might be an overkill. I will keep an eye, though - maybe will drop some bits of information on leaders that I know good enough.
(grabs popcorn in anticipation of Cyrus the Backstabber)
Oh, I know that. I'm just waiting for someone to drop a tome and show how wrong his portrayal in Civ 6 is.Many thanks to @Zaarin for his contribution on Gilgamesh! Incidentally, I agree that Gudea of Lagash would make a great leader of Sumer if the civ is included in Civilization games again sometime (especially since we have a good idea of what the shepherd/priest-king looked like). Ur-Nammu would be another great choice and he has an epic wherein he descends to the underworld, although we know a lot more about his historical person than we do about Gilgamesh's historical personage.
Cyrus wasn't really a "backstabber" in history though he is portrayed that way in Civ VI and gets multiple lines hinting at his duplicity. Cyrus was a conqueror, but the title of "backstabber" (in the Civ context of turning on one's former allies) would belong more to Hammurabi, who backstabbed all his allies and took over their lands to create his Babylonian empire. Most people know him for his legal code and civic improvements, but he was definitely a successful warrior too! I certainly hope that when Hammurabi comes back to Civ (maybe in Civ VII?) he is portrayed as a backstabber.
Would definitely be interested in your Russia analysis! I don't think the lavra quite fits the Great Person point bonuses or its assignation to a Russia led only by Peter (who was quite anti religious and thought men were wasted in the church), but would be interested in your take. Of course, I know that in some cases the building bonuses aren't exactly meant to be tied to the leader, but I do think in Russia's case the encouragement to build a lot of lavras as Peter is as weird as Cyrus being encouraged to backstab/initiate surprise wars (both when playing as him, and in the AI code).Oh, I know that. I'm just waiting for someone to drop a tome and show how wrong his portrayal in Civ 6 is.
I might try and write up something on Russia, seeing how I defend its Civ 6 iteration whenever it is questioned by "Where's my space-conquering Soviet Union?!" players.