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Civilization Requests

Discussion in 'Civ4 - CIV Gold' started by Wyz_sub10, Sep 27, 2006.

  1. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I searched for about an hour now and I couldn't find anyone who has made The Moorish Empire as a custom Civ. It's possible that it's listed under a different name (Al-Andalus being what the Moorish people called their region of the world) though. If that's the case, point me in the right direction please.

    Anyways, I figured I would suggest it seeing as The Moors had a large Empire at its peak (Algiers, Morrocco, parts of Mali, and most of the Iberian penisula) and threatened to conquer what is now current-day France. Basically, they inhabited most of what was Carthage minus Sardinia and Corsica in the Med. Sea plus more of Northern Africa and Iberia.

    NOTE - Skip to the ***s if you don't want to read my leader/civ history/significance.

    History - Ummayad caliph Al-Walid I directed a large force to conquer the Berbers of North Africa. While the initial conquest was highly successful, the occupation of North Africa was not due to zero tolerence of Berber culture. An alliance of Byzantines and Berbers soon kicked out the invaders from North Africa. Musa bin Nusair was sent to reconquer North Africa and was successful. However, unlike the previous governor, he was very tolerent of Berber culture and successfully converted many Berbers to Islam. Many of these converts served in his government and army (including a great general Tariq bin Ziyad who would later co-conquer Southern Iberia).

    Twelve years later, Nasair orders raids into Visigoth Iberia. The raids were very successful and led to a small invasion of 8,000 soldiers a year later. Even though outnumbered almost 3to1, pre-Andalusians defeated a 20,000 strong Visigoth force led by the Visigoth king himself at Guadelete. The Visigoth nobility in Iberia was destroyed. A year later, Nasair himself lands in southern Iberia with 18,000 soldiers and conquers all of Iberia except for the northern Basque region.

    During the conquest, Nasair recieves word that the Caliphate in Damascus (Al-Walid I) has summoned him due to his highly successful raids. He ignores the order at first because he is determined to conquer all of Iberia. More than a year later, Nasair answers the summons. However, Al-Walid I was very sick and his brother, Suleiman (sound familar=-), was the acting Caliphate. Suleiman demanded that Nasair delay his grand entry in Damascus due to the Caliphate's illness (and probably because Sulieman wanted to take credit for the conquest). Nasair ignored the demand and gloriously entered Damascus and offered a sizeable portion of the booty to Al-Walid. Al-Walid died a few days later and the new Caliphate demanded that Nasair hand over all his booty. When Nasair refused, Sulieman stripped Nsair of his title, confiscated all the booty, and paraded Nasair around Damascus like a common criminal. Nasair spent the rest of his life a poor man in Medina.

    Before leaving for the summons, he put his son in charge of Iberia. His son ruled for two years before being assasinated by Sulieman. The caliphate displayed Nasair's son's head to an audience where he knew Nasair would be attending.

    In the short period where the Caliphate still had power in Iberia, a massive nearly 300,000 strong Moorish army invaded France and unsuccessfully seiged Toulouse -- and event that could have forever changed French history.

    In 750 (or 756) Andalus became independent from the greater Caliphate. From practically that moment on, the Moors would be locked in near constant warfare with a variety of Christian factions for the next 800 years. During this "reconquista" (reconquering) the Moors would lose all of Iberia and would officially end with the surrendering of Granada to Ferdinand and Isabella in 1492 (a big year for Spain apparently). The Moorish people of Iberia were targets of the Spanish inquisition.

    The legacy the Moors left behind is found all over Spain and Portugal, with a huge number or Cathedrals and Universities being built by the Moors. Linguistically, thousands of Spanish and Portugesse words trace themselves back to Arabic roots (The Moors spoke primarily Arabic) such as arroz (rice), alfrombra (rug), alcatraz (which means pelican in Spanish btw), azul (blue), atun (tuna), sofá (sofa) -- all very common words in usage today.

    Also, while the rest of Western Europe was in the "dark ages," Moorish Iberia was far from unenlightened. Scholars, both Christian and Muslim, actively studied and translated the old works of Eygpt, Rome, and Greece as well as conduct their own experiments (otherwise known as part of the Islamic Golden Age). Historians believe that Cordoba under Moorish rule was the largest and most prosperous city in Europe, surpassing even Constantinople during this time.

    Well, I got a little carried away there. Anyways, here's some more "Civ based" stuff, enough with the history.

    * * * *

    Civ name - The Moorish Empire (referring to both North Africa and Iberia from ~700 to ~1500 AD)

    Starting techs - Agriculture, The Wheel

    Link to existing civ - couldn't find any

    Leader - Musa bin Nusair (Could alter Mansa Musu's or Mehmed's portraits)
    -----Agressive, Organized OR Charismatic, Expansive
    Favorite civic - Vassalage

    Unique Unit - Camel Gunner (replaces Cuirassier) **s are unique abilities
    12 Strength
    2 movepoints
    100 hammers
    *requires gunpowder, military tradition, horseback riding (*no iron, *no horses)
    Immune to first strikes
    15% withdraw chance
    no defensive bonuses
    flanks catapults, trebuchets, and cannons
    *1 first strike
    *starts with drill 1 and 2
    *drill line is open to this UU, like the Japanese Samurai UU

    Comments - It's like combining the Arabic Horse Archer (no horses, no iron), the Ethiopian Musket (first strikes), and the Japanese Samurai (drill line not normally available to this type of unit). I'm basing this unit off of a different game -- Medieval Total War 2. The only thing I don't like about this unit is that the arrival of gunpowder on the battlefield was around the same time The Moors were being (quickly) dismissed from Iberia.

    Unique Building - Bimaristan (replaces University)
    +25% research
    *3 culture points
    *+2 health

    Comments - The Moors built, staffed, and administered the best public hospitals in the Western European world at the time. In addition to serving basic healthcare needs, Moorish bimaristans later evolved into the first research hospitals. Nearly all basic-yet-modern surgical techniques and tools were developed in Moorish Iberia. The Al-Tasrif (Book of Concessions) was written in Cordoba by Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi (AKA Abulcasis) who is known as the "father of modern surgery". The Al-Tasrif was used for almost seven centries and covered everything from basic dental health-care, dissection, nuerosurgery, basic OBGYN procedures, and it even started the modern custom of bringing flowers to the sick. Moorish physicians were the pioneers of animal testing before trying new procedures on humans. Moorish physicians made use of anesthesia by using an opium and cannabis blend which was far superior to the ingestion of alcohol (and also prohibited in Islam). Lastly, Moorish physicians hypothesized the existence of bacteria during the bubonic plague outbreak hundreds of years before bacteria's discovery.

    City list -(Mostly Spanish cities, but also Portugesse, Moroccan, Tunisia, and Algerian)
    Cordoba (Capital)
    Cazorla
    Granada
    Lanjarón
    Guadix
    Jaén
    Jerez De La Frontera
    Mortril
    Ronda
    Lagos
    Zawaia
    Algraves
    Seville
    Lisbon
    Meknes
    Zaragoza
    Madinat al-Zahra
    Toledo
    Gormaz
    Valencia
    Fes
    Tangier
    Marrakech
    Sijilmasa
    Aoudaghost
    Mértola
    Sagunto
    Évora
    Santarém
    Coimbra
    Barcelona
    Narbonne
    Casablanca
    Cerdanya
    Aquitaine
    Algiers
    Rabat
    Tunis
    Silb
    Tanja
    Larida

    I'd be more than happy to help add the civ. I'm unfamilar with xml but I can help with art and information.

    Sources (yay for wikis)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Muslim_presence_in_the_Iberian_peninsula
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_ibn_Ziyad
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musa_bin_Nusair
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muladi
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquistion

    As a side note, ever see the Seinfeld episode where George is playing Trivial Pursuit with the boy in the bubble and the question is "Who invaded Spain in the 8th century?" The answer is The Moors, but the card was misprinted and said "The Moops"

    lol
     
  2. 5t0rmm4k3r

    5t0rmm4k3r Chieftain

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    Well, I realize you probably don't want to many more Middle Eastern civs as that region is quite cramped, but I think these two could be good (and I don't think they've been added from what I could see...)

    Assyria and Hatti. I think both of these have been made already, but not sure about Assyria though, so here is some info...
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=173627&highlight=hittites

    Civ Name- Assyria, Assyrian Empire
    Leader(s) - Ashurbanipal Expansive/Imperialistic? - Ruled over the Neo-Assyrian empire at its height, last king of Assyria
    Maybe Tikulti-ninurta I Aggressive/Expansionist? - Expanded Assyrian power of Mesopotamia, defeating conquering Babylon and bringing old Assyria to its greatest extent
    Unique Unit - Heavy Chariot or Siege Archer - Both would have increased defense
    Unique Building - ? Not sure, maybe some kind of temple replacing monument?
    Cities- Ninevêh
    Asshur
    Arbel
    Ur
    Nimrod
    Kalakh
    Erbil
    Akhad
    Arrapkha
    Dur Shakkukin
     
  3. cybrxkhan

    cybrxkhan Asian Xwedodah

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    Assyria has already been made, though I also don't know where it is.

    Anyhow, you all can find the Hittites, Moors, and Assyrians in the CivGold mod; its in module format, so if you only want a certain few civs, you can easily extract them and get rid of the others.
     
  4. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Chieftain

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    You should add Sassanids, the last pre-Islamic Persian empire. The Civ was recently made by Civ of the week project and the first Persian empires(Persians and Pahlavi) are already in CIV Gold.
     
  5. 5t0rmm4k3r

    5t0rmm4k3r Chieftain

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    Thankyou! I posted about the Sassanids a while back, but now they are a COTW!

    Link- http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13966 (this is linked to download, there may be a link to discussion, but haven't checked)

    BTW, I'm not sure the Pahlavi (Parthians) were actually Persian. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they were originally Nomads from north of Persia who invaded (and conquered) the Seleucid Empire.

    Also, I agree with NukeAJS. I think the Berbers/Maghreb could be expanded into a little more. Perhaps the Numidian or Mauritanian Empires, or Morocco? Could be an option. I'm not sure of info for them though...

    Also, I'm not sure if these are in, since I couldn't find a list of new leaders, but perhaps Pyrrhus of Epirus for the Greeks.

    Great mod BTW, thanks guys. Keep up the good work.
     
  6. cybrxkhan

    cybrxkhan Asian Xwedodah

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    From what I know the Parthians might have been related to the Persians, but regardless after they took over Persia they became pretty PErsianized anyways.
     
  7. 5t0rmm4k3r

    5t0rmm4k3r Chieftain

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    Yeah, I agree with you there. I had a look but can't seem to find a lot on their origins. It is clear they are a native Iranian people, but whether they were "Persian" or not doesn't seem clear from where I looked anyways. But you are right, they are very Persian in culture, however slightly Hellenistic too from what I gather, as this was one excuse the Sassanids used to overthrow them.

    On the idea of new civs though, just wondering, is there a civ representing Libya (ancient preferably)? Thanks in advance.

    Great LHs btw, I especially like Khosrau
     
  8. cybrxkhan

    cybrxkhan Asian Xwedodah

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    I remember a few mods did have ancient Libya. However, I'm not sure with ones to be sure. I'm also certain CivGold doesn't have an ancient libya.
     
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Chieftain

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    Garamantes(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garamantes) ,who are in Civ Gold, lived in northern Africa and ruled a western part of modern Libya(and some other lands). They were a regional power from 500 BC to 600 AD.

    Also, Northern Africa should be represented better in Civ Gold. Maghreb civ now represents moors and berbers, it would be nice if they had seperate civs. Numidian civ(with Jugurtha as leader) could be created as there was a numidian kingdom and they were different from garamantes. And modern Libya civ led by Gaddafi could be added too.

    Moreover, Islamic dynasties could be represented better in Civ Gold.(by rulers or civs).

    Finally, use the Phil/Ind trait combo on a civ(or few civs) with sucky UUs/UBs. All the other "forbidden" trait combos have been used and they didn't break the game, so I doubt this combo would, if it was given to a weak Civ.
     
  10. 5t0rmm4k3r

    5t0rmm4k3r Chieftain

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    Yeah, I agree. I think that Numidia would be a great civ. I think aswell as Jugurtha, Masinissa could carry over from Carthage. For a unique unit though I'm not sure, perhaps give them the Numidian Cavalry unit and give Carthage either a unique War Elephant or perhaps a Sacred Band unit? Not sure of any cities though, other than Cirta at least.

    I think the Maghreb is really quite broad too and the, mod could really benefit if it was expanded on. Or at least (seeing as both leaders are Moroccan) perhaps another leader, like Jugurtha, could be good for the Maghreb Empire.

    Still as I keep saying, great mod guys! Keep up the good work!
    PS finally got round to getting 5.0, now that I have BTS, great job!

    PSS - Nuke AJS, the Moors are already in as the Maghreb Empire, though the Al-Andalusian Empire could be nice if the Maghreb was expanded.
     
  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Chieftain

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    Kipchaks(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchak ) deserve to included in Civ Gold as they ruled large territory and were good warriors, who even sacked Kiev. Also, Khazars civ has been made by Civ of the project recently , it would be nice to have them in Civ Gold too.
     
  12. nzk13

    nzk13 Some Jew-boy on Noble.

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    how about the southern and northern kingdoms of israel being seperate; and the modern day state being seperate for good measure? i could supply leader, uu, ub ideas and city lists.
    -edit: i agree the khazars should be there
     
  13. Hyena Dandy

    Hyena Dandy Chieftain

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    I hate to be pedantic, but it kind of irks me (in an otherwise perfect mod) that the popes are leaders for the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire and the Papal States, while intertined, were seperate political entities. Just bringing this to your attention, if you didn't know.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Chieftain

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    Yes, I also think that popes shouldn't be leaders of HRE. And Otto I should be a leader for HRE, as he was first true emperor of HRE.
     
  15. 5t0rmm4k3r

    5t0rmm4k3r Chieftain

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    Yeah, I agree about the popes, however I think I should ponit out that both Popes can be removed by taking their files out of the Custom LHs Module.
    On the line of HRE leaders, I think as well as Otto, Barbarossa would be good leader, as he was one of the last great HREmperors (to be honest, I'm surprised hes not in already!)

    I think Radma wouldnt be a terrible idea for Madagascar. I was wondering also... Could an ancient leader like Arminius (aka Herman the German) or Clovis (Ok probably not Clovis, but a possibility) work for the Germans as they seem to be one of the only European civs with no Medieval/Ancient leaders...

    EDIT- A modern Libyan civ (or just a general one) could also have Omar al-Mukhtar, national hero of Libya [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_al-Mukhtar])
     
  16. 5t0rmm4k3r

    5t0rmm4k3r Chieftain

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    Sorry bout the double post, I just had an idea. How about a Darfur Empire? It was a semi-powerful state in Western Sudan in the 1600s(?) until it's conquest by the Ottomans. Not sure about a city list but perhaps for UU something like...

    Sudanese Warband
    Replaces Pikeman, 6 Strength, 2 move(?) and +10% vs. Melee units?
    (I think something to this extent has already been created by the COTW project for the Makurians bu I am not sure of it's exact stats.)

    or

    Darfurian Freedom Fighter
    Replaces Marine, 18 Str., 2 Move, 140 Cost?
    Well... Or something like that. Cheaper and faster but weaker. I'm no good at units...

    and for UB...
    Not sure, maybe some kind of fortress or castle?
    Something to do with the civil war? ( maybe that's a bit touchy?)

    Leaders, maybe...

    Ahmed Bukr c.1682-c.1722
    Spiritual/Financial? He introduced Islam to Darfur after he came to the throne (so Spiritual) and also greatly increased the prosperity of Darfur by encouraging immigration from other states such as Bornu. His rule extended from East of the nile to as far as the banks of the Atbara (so maybe organized?).

    Suleiman Solon reigned from 1603-1637
    Aggressive/Spritual
    He was the founder of the Darfurian state. He was a great warrior and a devoted Muslim. His surname "Solon" means "the Arab" or "the Red".

    My other idea is perhaps the Seljuks and Afghans could be added? both have been created and are very good. And perhaps Hayam Wuruk as well Gajah for the Majapahit?

    That's all from me now!

    P.S. I real this may be a bit tetchy with the civil war there and all but, just a suggestion, could be a good civ and probably little known too.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_Sultanate
    All info is from this link!
     

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