Civilization V versus Civilization 4.

[s.bernbaum]

This happened to me today in Civ IV. Does it happen in Civ V? I haven't tried V yet, but if it means my tanks won't be decimated by men with lances..

You're overlooking the bazooka built into the lance…

 

[attackfighter]

Not to mention that tanks have very limited fuel and ammunition, so enough bodies, regardless of quality, would eventually overwhelm an isolated tank force.

 

[Camikaze]

The issue is that they will in civ V as well, due to the fact that the victor unit in civ V loses 1 hp in every fight ...

In other words, if you can drop enough knights in top of the tank ( not that easy due to the 1 upt, but can be done ), the tank will be eventually beaten ... exactly like in civ IV

Except that the last HP of a unit acts differently to the rest, so warriors can keep pounding away at a 1HP GDR and will never kill it. Fair call for promoted units, or units closer in tech though (such as probably a knight and tank).

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, fair enough ( not into civ V for some months ) ... so you pound warriors on the tank , then you bombard it with a archer or something The issue is exactly the same ...

My point was that the was exactly as well and alive in civ V as it was in Civ IV or in civ III and that the new combat system didn't made it go away like advertised. To be honest it is a similar situation to the "random seed on reload issue" : in civ III you could ( and probably should ) reload the game until you won a low odds battle. Civ IV tried to avoid it by putting a no random seed on reload as the default option ... and we got a situation where you, with some reloads can determine the RNG string for a handful of interactions and use as you want ( want to avoid a 99% loss ? Just put a garrison unit in auto explore to eat the bad RNG output ), that can be even worse than the random seed on reload issues ( as RNG is also involved in the AI choice of builds, you can even influence the AI builds by careful RNG manipulation. Now that is absurdely powerful ) ...

 

[moe45673]

So what do you all think about the new announced Civ V expansion?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/16/men-gods-and-kings-civilisation-v-expansion/#more-94766

 

[MilesBeyond]

I think the spearman defeats tank issue will always be a part of the Civ franchise. It's just the way combat is done. The problem I see is that in order to avoid it, you would have to give more and more bonuses to more advanced units, which in turn would make warfare more about teching as fast as possible. Frankly, I'd rather see spearmen having a <1% chance of defeating a tank than a system where your entire army becomes obsolete as soon as someone reaches the next level of technology.

I feel like Civ IV had a decent balance of that. A well-composed and intelligently upgraded stack of medieval units can still take a city garrisoned by riflemen - but the riflemen have enough of an advantage that you have to ask, would you want to?

 

[Radagast II]

One way to fix the spear vs. tank problem is to add a huge bonus to a unit that is two or more upgrades ahead. That way the first to a new military tech doesn't have a huge advantage over the guys who went for something else first or who are just a few turns behind.

Sid could also overhaul the entire tech tree system but that's never gonna happen.

 

[allypower]

So what do you all think about the new announced Civ V expansion?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/16/men-gods-and-kings-civilisation-v-expansion/#more-94766

I rather have them fix the bugs and work on the graphic part of Nexus tool than wasting their time with more of the same broken content to waste consumer's money. I won't be buying the expansion until at least 2-3 years from now or maybe I'll just buy Civ 6 if Firaxis even survives that long.

For now I'm content with working and testing on my new Civ 4 world 2010 scenario

And for my opinion Civ 4 is much better than a dumb down Civ like Civ 5 in every aspect except for the Hexagonal tile system.

And if to mention upt, sure its better than stack of doom except in Civ 4, there's a mod that let you do varied amount of units per tile, which is even nicer than upt.

 

[s.bernbaum]

Sid could also overhaul the entire tech tree system but that's never gonna happen.

There are mods that have done that, although most add lots more to it, so it gets more complex. Have a look around in the C&C forum, if that appeals to you.

 

[digitalcraft]

I'll probably be a dumb and get it, only to have my hopes dashed. This added compexity might make the game though. I haven't bought any of the DLC because I do not resemble a milk cow nor have cash udders, but this is pretty much their last chance.

 

[Radagast II]

To address the topic itself... I didn't spring for Civ 5, opted for EU 3 instead, as I have both Civ 3 and 4 I felt like diversifying. I definitely feel that 4 is fairly complex, it took me a while to get into it, but I like it now and only play C3C for the mods. I would have preferred that they work on the diplomatic aspect a little more, but it sounds like it's gotten much worse instead of better.

There are mods that have done that, although most add lots more to it, so it gets more complex. Have a look around in the C&C forum, if that appeals to you.

I'll look around to see what other people have come up with. One of the primary complaints from me is the way research is collected and allocated. Not only is it unreasonable to dedicate all of a civ's research to one thing, but also unrealistic to say that a tech costs x amount of money (which is a bigger problem when there are nations of varying size). Of course it is a very simple system that works most of the time, which is why I doubt it will be discarded by Firaxis. More fun for the modders...

 

[MilesBeyond]

One way to fix the spear vs. tank problem is to add a huge bonus to a unit that is two or more upgrades ahead. That way the first to a new military tech doesn't have a huge advantage over the guys who went for something else first or who are just a few turns behind.

Yeah, but they already do that, don't they? Axeman vs Maceman: 5 strength against 8. Maceman has a very definite edge, but Axeman can still pull through, and a well-upgraded Axe against a green Mace is almost an even fight or in extreme cases can even be slanted in the Axe's favour. Axeman vs Rifleman? Forget it.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So what do you all think about the new announced Civ V expansion?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/16/men-gods-and-kings-civilisation-v-expansion/#more-94766

Good if they made the engine run better, the controls respond to commands immediately after commands are given, and MP ceases to go OOS with more than 3 players.

Otherwise, terrible no matter what is added .

 

[Archon_Wing]

Fix the AI, fix the controls.

Then again they failed for Civ IV; I don't think they get it. Let's just add stuff we should have added in the first place and sell it to people!

Just consider that most of Civ IV's expansion features (Events, AP, vassals) are utter garbage.

 

[Midnight-Blue766]

This thread again?

 

[Iranon]

Civilization IV has some rather severe flaws, but of all games I played in the genre it's still the game I'd recommend to most people. The earlier entries were also fine games, but imo featured more bureaucratic cut&paste gameplay when trying to play optimally.
Civilization V is conceptually broken, and the (admittedly impressive) patching efforts can't fix this.

Alpha Centauri, Europa Universalis III, Galactic Civilizations II, Masters of Orion I&II and Master of Magic rival Civilization 4 for genre enthusiasts, but they're not as easy to get into for a modern audience.
I'd put Aurora above all, but you need need the right kind of brain damage to enjoy it.

 

[Sojuz]

Fix the AI, fix the controls.

Then again they failed for Civ IV; I don't think they get it. Let's just add stuff we should have added in the first place and sell it to people!

Just consider that most of Civ IV's expansion features (Events, AP, vassals) are utter garbage.

Shame on you for saying the Civ4 expansions were garbage! They added so more fun to the original game. I could not image myself playing Civ4 without BtS! Come on, you gotta be kidding! The expansions were worth of their cost? This is another matter, fact is they did their job, improving (greatly) already a great game.

 

[uat2d]

Civ 5 sucks.

Civ 4 does not, and it has been improved greatly through mods.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Shame on you for saying the Civ4 expansions were garbage! They added so more fun to the original game. I could not image myself playing Civ4 without BtS! Come on, you gotta be kidding! The expansions were worth of their cost? This is another matter, fact is they did their job, improving (greatly) already a great game.

I said most of the features.

Vassals are a half baked, incomplete feature that has been proven time and again to not work properly. One of the most gamebreakng features of the game, The Apostolic Palace, was also released in this half baked sense that no rational mind could ever be considered balanced. Events are also largely crap

Sure, I can disable these things, but then what do you have? Well, I guess I can disable most of them, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of an expansion? Well, there's siege not killing, somewhat better AI, and Espionage I guess.

It's a hard thing to process, but people do have different opinions on the same thing. Usually they'd present an argument involving something though.

 

[rah]

I have to mostly agree.

Vassals are a half baked, incomplete feature that has been proven time and again to not work properly. One of the most gamebreakng features of the game, The Apostolic Palace, was also released in this half baked sense that no rational mind could ever be considered balanced. Events are also largely crap

With the exception of events, which I like, I agree 100% and turn those other two off.

Sure, I can disable these things, but then what do you have? Well, I guess I can disable most of them, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of an expansion? Well, there's siege not killing, somewhat better AI, and Espionage I guess.

In all fairness didn't they add corps and some extra civs. So not totally useless, but not quite as bleak as you portray.