Civilization Wishlist for Civ VII

...I don't know what that's supposed to mean.
What is ancient America? Or renaissance America for that matter? What is Classical Babylon, never mind Medieval or Modern Babylon? Many polities existed only for a single era; there's no good way to represent those civilizations under an "evolving civ" model. If we bump up the start date to the classical era, we can have China, Persia, India, Rome, and arguably Greece (except Greece is missing an industrial era; maybe they can be Ottoman that era--that won't offend anyone :mischief: ); that's a very limited civ game. What I was referring to by nationalist fantasies was things like the Hungarians claiming to be Huns or Sumerians, the Iraqis claiming to be Babylonian/Assyrian/Sumerian, and so forth. Even the notion of an unbroken timeline in China or Persia, while not quite as utterly fantastic, is still open to skepticism. What I meant by imperialist dogma would be, for example, portraying pre-Industrial America as Native Americans or pre-Industrial Mexico as Aztec and Maya (which kind of falls into both categories: nationalist fantasies and imperialist dogma).
 
honestly I think Civilization should take a hint from Humankind and have civilizations develop over time. While some of the transitions in that game were wildly implausible, some such as England > Britain, or Edo-period Japan > Modern Japan, at least did make logical sense.

That's certainly more preferable than any sort of hairsplitting about which dynasty of an empire should be represented over the other.
My problem with this idea is when we have limited space for civs, most likely 50 to 60 different ones, is there any reason why there should be a separate Edo Japan and Modern Japan in the game?

I think the best way to represent multiple eras of different civs is by choosing from different leaders. I wouldn't mind a mechanic of switching leaders mid-game however for possible development over time. Even if that doesn't happen at the start of the game I'd still like a choice of if you want to play a more British oriented England you have the option to choose Victoria over a more traditional Elizabeth for Tudor England.
 
I think the best way to represent multiple eras of different civs is by choosing from different leaders. I wouldn't mind a mechanic of switching leaders mid-game however for possible development over time. Even if that doesn't happen at the start of the game I'd still like a choice of if you want to play a more British oriented England you have the option to choose Victoria over a more traditional Elizabeth for Tudor England.
As I've said before, I see leaders as being the face of their civilization, and I'm not really a fan of something that changes that face in the middle of a game.
 
As I've said before, I see leaders as being the face of their civilization, and I'm not really a fan of something that changes that face in the middle of a game.
That's understandable. I don't see that happening anyway though. That being said it's more desirable, in my opinion at least, than outright changing civilizations.

I do hope they continue alternate leaders for Civ VII and give us more options though. In addition to India, China, England, France and Greece, who had multiple leaders in Civ 6, there's no reason why Germany, Russia, Persia, Egypt and Arabia shouldn't at least get two as well as a start. :mischief:
 
That's understandable. I don't see that happening anyway though. That being said it's more desirable, in my opinion at least, than outright changing civilizations.

I do hope they continue alternate leaders for Civ VII and give us more options though. In addition to India, China, England, France and Greece, who had multiple leaders in Civ 6, there's no reason why Germany, Russia, Persia, Egypt and Arabia shouldn't at least get two as well as a start. :mischief:
I shouldn't let my imagination run wild. Now I want a peaceful Gudea and a warlike Ur-Nammu (and why not a religious Shulgi or Kuĝbau?) for Sumer, and for Assyria a warlike Tiglath-Pileser III, a builder Sennacherib, and a collector Ashurbanipal. Obviously we'll be lucky just to get Assyria, and just as lucky to not have a meme Sumer if it returns at all... :(
 
As I've said before, I see leaders as being the face of their civilization, and I'm not really a fan of something that changes that face in the middle of a game.

Especially now that I've had a chance to put a couple hundred hours into Humankind (post and pre-release), where there is no 'face' on any Civilization/Faction at all, I've come to appreciate the immersive and emotional connection a player can get from a Leader Face. And given that it is now one of the primary things that distinguishes Civ from other 4X gams, I don't see the animated Face leaving any time soon.

On the other hand, I also cannot help being aware of the sometimes extreme disadvantages of a single or even a very limited number of Leaders for each Civ from a game play perspective:

1. It strait-jackets a long-lasting Civ into a single set of Leader attributes from a single tiny fraction of the total time the Civ existed in various forms. For Civs like China, Egypt, England, Persia, Russia - even the Industrial to Contemporary Eras Only USA with 40+ presidents (admittedly, some of which no one sane would ever want to see in any game) that strait jacket can be severe.
2. It assumes a set of Leader traits that may be utterly inappropriate for the in-game situation - ranging from the Civ's starting position to its end game diplomatic/cultural/military position.
3. The fully animated, voice-acted Leader acts as a Resource Sink taking assets away from other elements of the game. Realistically, X amount spent on the Leader alone is X assets that cannot be applied to the Map, Infrastructure, Units, and other game elements and still have a game that can be sold for a profit - and if you cannot do that, the game ceases to exist as a commercial game.
4. Requiring a recognizable Leader with at least a minimally-appropriate language for each Civ means a lot of potential Civs will never be in Civilization. Given the total number of potential Civs, which far exceeds what any commercial game could afford to deploy, this is a minor matter except that some of the 'unavailable' Civs come up all the time in discussions here: Minoans, Olmecs, Harappans, and such. The fact that games like Humankind can and do include them using their different game/faction structure just makes the comparison with Civ more negative.

IF there is a solution - besides getting Jeff Bezos to bankroll the Civ Franchise and remove all constraints on game development except the total number of computer artists, writers and programmers available to hire in the world - I think it has to include at least the following aspects:

1. There must be a personal, individual animated Face to the Civ. This has become a Civ 'trademark' and its loss would not be well-received by the gaming community.
2. The 'face' should provide clues to the diplomatic and other interactions between Civs. Angry, oily, murderous, benign - it provides a very human way of knowing or guessing where you and your Civ stand in relation to what is, after ll, a Program, but it is a human reaction that I think we need to keep in the game. That means a simple piece of still artwork ala Old World or Humankind simply won't do.
3. The personal representative of the Civ should Look like the Civ, or at least as we expect it to look: that means some kind of appropriate costume, uniform, military dress, some appropriate background at least hinted at - and the reactions of the Face/Leader should be appropriate to the Civ as well: Timur-i-Lenk will not express outrage that you are massacring a City State, unless he has an Ulterior Motive, like using the 'outrage' as an excuse to massacre You! That means some serious research into the 'real' Leaders and the Civs they led and the cultural background to both.

I have proposed it before, and I'll trot it out again: One possible solution is to place the Leader at one remove from the direct confrontation with the gamer, and make the animated, voiced interaction take place with a Minister or Diplomat. The animated Face of the Civ would have a Civ-and-Era-specific Hall or Audience Chamber background, and an appropriate but largely 'generic' Minister who would provide the human 'Face' to the Civ - and who might change his costume/background as the Eras advance. The Leader could be represented by a portrait on the wall, a bust on the table/desk, a Statue glimpsed through a doorway in the Great Hall beyond - and requiring only still art, that Leader could change as required throughout the Eras along with the Leader trait(s) appropriate to deal with the in-game situation.

IF Civ VII keeps a Great Person system in the game, the Minister/Face could even be a non-generic one: The USA represented by Benjamin "Bon Homme Richard" Franklin or George Marshall instead of President Millard Fillmore, France represented by Tallyrand or Cardinal Richelieu instead of Louis XVI, China by Shang Yang, India by Chanakya, the Mexica/Aztecs by Tlacaelel, England by Thomas Cromwell, etc. That could provide a more specific, recognizable, and identifiable historical Face to a Civ while still requiring only a single animated. voice-acted, researched Face per Civ and allowing more flexibility in Civ Leader Traits and Civ adaptability throughout the game.
 
I shouldn't let my imagination run wild. Now I want a peaceful Gudea and a warlike Ur-Nammu (and why not a religious Shulgi or Kuĝbau?) for Sumer, and for Assyria a warlike Tiglath-Pileser III, a builder Sennacherib, and a collector Ashurbanipal. Obviously we'll be lucky just to get Assyria, and just as lucky to not have a meme Sumer if it returns at all... :(
If I remember correctly it was Anton who helped research and designed Assyria and Portugal for Civ 5. Wouldn't be surprised if he got a more prominent role for Civ VII, considering he was the lead designer for R&F, and Assyria got in the base game at least over Babylon/Sumer. :)

Edit: Wow I just saw that he's leaving today on another thread. Well forget what I said. :crazyeye:
 
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I have proposed it before, and I'll trot it out again: One possible solution is to place the Leader at one remove from the direct confrontation with the gamer, and make the animated, voiced interaction take place with a Minister or Diplomat. The animated Face of the Civ would have a Civ-and-Era-specific Hall or Audience Chamber background, and an appropriate but largely 'generic' Minister who would provide the human 'Face' to the Civ - and who might change his costume/background as the Eras advance. The Leader could be represented by a portrait on the wall, a bust on the table/desk, a Statue glimpsed through a doorway in the Great Hall beyond - and requiring only still art, that Leader could change as required throughout the Eras along with the Leader trait(s) appropriate to deal with the in-game situation.
I get that this is historically appropriate, but I don't like it at all. I enjoy interacting with the leaders in Civ, including the ones I love to hate. (The exception is Mansa Musa. His laugh makes me want to straight up murder him. :shifty: )

If I remember correctly it was Anton who helped research and designed Assyria and Portugal for Civ 5. Wouldn't be surprised if he got a more prominent role for Civ VII, considering he was the lead designer for R&F, and Assyria got in the base game at least over Babylon/Sumer. :)

Edit: Wow I just saw that he's leaving today on another thread. Well forget what I said. :crazyeye:
Aw, sad to hear he's leaving. :( I've spent a long time trying to find a reference for who it was that pushed for Assyria, but I've yet to find it--but I was under the impression they left Firaxis after BNW or BE, not sure which. If Ed Beach is at the helm again, he's a great designer, but he's made no secret that the Protestant Reformation is his favorite period of history.
 
Aw, sad to hear he's leaving. :( I've spent a long time trying to find a reference for who it was that pushed for Assyria, but I've yet to find it--but I was under the impression they left Firaxis after BNW or BE, not sure which. If Ed Beach is at the helm again, he's a great designer, but he's made no secret that the Protestant Reformation is his favorite period of history.
I looked and it's on his LinkedIn account. Not 100% sure if he was the one that originally pushed for it but it looks like he was heavily involved in at least the research and design for them.
 
I looked and it's on his LinkedIn account. Not 100% sure if he was the one that originally pushed for it but it looks like he was heavily involved in at least the research and design for them.
Ah, nice catch. :goodjob:
 
I get that this is historically appropriate, but I don't like it at all. I enjoy interacting with the leaders in Civ, including the ones I love to hate. (The exception is Mansa Musa. His laugh makes me want to straight up murder him. :shifty: .

For once I'm less worried about the historical appropriateness than finding a way to give the Civs more flexibility and appropriateness in the Leader traits. I'm resigned to the fact that there will be a fully-animated voice-acted Face of some kind on each Civ: it's what the Civ Franchise does, it's what sets it apart from Them Other Games out there.
What I'm trying to do is find a way to include that, and the resources it eats up, and still get some variation in the Leader traits so that they have some relationship to in-game events. Whatever we get, whether it's a single Leader or a set of alternate Leaders (which inevitably will be incomplete) or Something Else, it's never going to satisfy everyone and will have elements of compromise in it relating to both 'historical appropriateness' and 'in-game relevence'.

Frankly, they can keep doing exactly what they have been doing and probably not lose a dime doing it, but I'm getting really tired of having a One Note Leader who adapts poorly if at all to what's happening to him and his Civ throughout the game, when any Civ actually full of people would have found a way to remove his fundament from the throne sooner or later and found someone else: cue the workmen at the wall behind the smiling Minister in the Audience Room chipping off Djoser's image on the bas-relief and replacing it with Hatshepset's . . .
 
  1. Arabian - Abd al-Malik
  2. Armenian - Tigranes II
  3. Assyrian - Tiglath-Pileser III
  4. Aztec - Itzcoatl
  5. Babylonian - Nebuchadnezzar II
  6. Berber - Yusuf ibn Tashfin
  7. Bulgarian - Simeon I
  8. Burmese - Anawrahta Minsaw
  9. Carthaginian - Hannibal
  10. Chinese - Taizong
  11. Danish - Margaret I
  12. Dutch - Willem van Oranje
  13. Egyptian - Thutmose III
  14. English - Aethelflaed
  15. Ethiopian - Ezana
  16. French - Louis XIV
  17. German - Otto I
  18. Greek - Epaminondas
  19. Hungarian - Árpád
  20. Irish - Niall Noígíallach
  21. Iroquois - Hiawatha
  22. Incan - Pachacuti
  23. Indonesian - Kertanegara
  24. Japanese - Toyotomi Hideyoshi
  25. Judea - Hezekiah
  26. Kipchak - Öz Beg Khan
  27. Khmer - Jayavarman II
  28. Korean - Taejodae
  29. Kongolese - Lukeni lua Nimi
  30. Malagasy - Andrianampoinimerina
  31. Malaysian - Paremeswara
  32. Malian - Sundiata Keita
  33. Manchu - Kangxi
  34. Mauryan - Ashoka
  35. Maya - Pakal I
  36. Mongol - Genghis Khan
  37. Mughal - Akbar I
  38. Muisca - Nemequene
  39. Norwegian - Harald Fairhair
  40. Nubian - Piye
  41. Omani - Saif bin Sultan
  42. Ottoman - Selim I
  43. Persian - Khosrow I
  44. Philippine - Kalangitan
  45. Polish - Sigismund III Vasa
  46. Portuguese - John II
  47. Roman - Marcus Aurelius
  48. Romanian - Vlad III
  49. Russian - Ivan IV
  50. Rwanda - Gihanga
  51. Spanish - Philip II
  52. Siamese - Ramkhamhaeng
  53. Swahili - Al-Hasan ibn Sulaiman
  54. Swedish - Charles XII
  55. Tamil - Raja Cholan I
  56. Tibetan - Songtsen Gampo
  57. Tongan - Tuʻitātui
  58. Uzbek - Amir Timur
  59. Vietnamese - Trung Trac
  60. Zulu - Shaka Zulu
 
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@FishFishFish I like a lot of your list so don't think I'm nitpicking because I pick a few to critique. :D

Polish - Sigismund III Vasa
Considering a lot of what made Poland special in the Late Medieval and Early Modern periods was its religious and social tolerance, choosing a religious zealot who turned Polish society on its head seems like poor representation compared to someone like Sigismund II Augustus.

Romanian - Vlad III
I am sorely disappointed that if we ever get Romania, Transylvania, or any Vlach representation it will be for the vampire stuff. :cry:

Armenian - Tigranes II
My only issue with Tigranes II is that he was a pagan, while Armenia is best remembered for its early endorsement of Christianity; for that reason I would suggest Tiridates III.

Japanese - Toyotomi Hideyoshi
Toyotomi Hideyoshi is best remembered for his brutal and failed invasion of Korea; he is a less than ideal choice for Japan.

Vietnamese - Trung Trac
Now that Vietnam has gotten in on the coattails of one legendary female leader, I hope if it returns it can have Le Loi as a leader. I am not extremely well-versed in Vietnamese history, but what I know of Le Loi is fascinating.

Korean - Taejodae
Interesting choice.

Incan - Pachacuti
We've had Pachacuti so many times; I really hope we see someone new next time (which basically means Tupaq Yupanki)--or at the very least see the return of Wayna Qhapaq.

Uzbek - Amir Timur
I think an Uzbek civ would be interesting, but Timur was Gurkani, not Uzbek. For a Gurkani civ, I'd rather see Timur's son Shah Rukh; for an Uzbek civ, the best candidate is probably Muhammad Shaybani Khan. My Islamic Central Asian civ of choice, however, is the Durrani Empire (Afghanistan) led by Ahmad Shah Durrani.

Judea - Hezekiah
Assyria - Tiglath-Pileser III
Russian - Ivan IV
Persian - Khosrow I
Omani - Saif bin Sultan
Muisca - Nemequene
Just so all my comments aren't negative, I particularly like these choices. :D I'd personally sub Ivan III or Aleksandr Nevsky for Ivan IV, but I'd still be very pleased with Ivan IV over one of the Westernizers we habitually get for Russia.
 
I wish leaders change during the game, but not a la Humankind : the change would seem "logical". Example : Gaul > Gallo-roman > Franks > France. In that case there is not many choices, but there could be many in the case of Rome for example : you could choose among whatever barbarians installed in ancient Roman Empire there's in the game. (it is to say maybe not that much after all)

But what would be best, is get rid of leaders : they take a fair amount of developement strenght, and i just want to kick their asses for saying rubbish all day long... unless they are less stupid ; I may want them again, but the way they are put, with silly demands, insane behavior, I just want to take their heads each and hit it on some hard object. (or with a hard object)

It's not matter to put so much hard work into them if it's to unveal our darkest feelings. If at least they were not "hating me, all simply" and denouncing me, if only they would not denounce me for warmongering until the end of time because i took a city (ok, maybe several, but historically reconciliation haven't been rare, even in the case of city pillaging), if only their agendas were not so silly.

They are simply not adapted to the gameplay.
 
I wish leaders change during the game, but not a la Humankind : the change would seem "logical". Example : Gaul > Gallo-roman > Franks > France. In that case there is not many choices, but there could be many in the case of Rome for example : you could choose among whatever barbarians installed in ancient Roman Empire there's in the game. (it is to say maybe not that much after all)

But what would be best, is get rid of leaders : they take a fair amount of developement strenght, and i just want to kick their asses for saying rubbish all day long... unless they are less stupid ; I may want them again, but the way they are put, with silly demands, insane behavior, I just want to take their heads each and hit it on some hard object. (or with a hard object)

It's not matter to put so much hard work into them if it's to unveal our darkest feelings. If at least they were not "hating me, all simply" and denouncing me, if only they would not denounce me for warmongering until the end of time because i took a city (ok, maybe several, but historically reconciliation haven't been rare, even in the case of city pillaging), if only their agendas were not so silly.

They are simply not adapted to the gameplay.

Unfortunately, they are adapted to the way people play the game: they are what engages people with their opponent AIs, as the Humankind experience shows negatively - there is far too little engagement in that game, so all the other faults loom so much larger. That means, for good, bad, or ugly, we are stuck with the Animated, Voice-Acted 'Personalization of the Civ' Leaders in Civilization

On the other hand, no question that as engaging as they are, enraging also describes their behavior as opponents. The similarities and differences in their behaviors have to be better designed and modeled in Civ VII, because now they are a ridiculous fantasy version of history, diplomacy, and common sense and frequently provide a jarring Disconnect when you are playing. I admit, my most common comment to myself in games of Civ VI is:
"You're denouncing me for What?!?"
- which is not a positive comment on the design of the game or the AI Leader behavior.
 
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I think it's more a matter of mentality : we like what we can see, because we talk about it, and it makes for good jokes and funny talk, precisely because the AI is mad. General Discussion is full of that, and unfortunately the devs are reading it... Nuclear Gandhi, Giant Death Robots... don't get me wrong, I appreciate such jokes and even the incorporation of them in the real game, but that shouldn't be a brake to more innovation. We will find the jokes, don't worry. After this it's a historical game, we have to stick with historical names, however I think there is a couple ideas out there that would need leaders faces to disappear, and even without them, only for the sake of developement time and efficiency, like focusing on what's really important. (AI, revolutionnary systems, etc.)

I think most people are opposed to scrap leaderheads, but once they would have tasted the new gameplay, I'm sure they will not miss them too much. (if Firaxis can do a great job, it all depends on their very confidence) Heck, even a random character generator a la XCOM 2 would be less energy consuming than the actual leaderheads and voice acting.

As to being suposedly hated as enemies, it deters too much to the actual strategic, carthesian alliances we could create late in the game. And AIs should be more willing to trade too. I remember an ALLY demanding more than 30 gold per turn for a luxury... not to mention flat gold (basically all my treasury) AIs are too personal, not enough tactical. I demand to Firaxis to make them weight the pros and the cons of an alliance, except maybe in the case of imminent victory, otherwise it would be maybe too hard or impossible to achieve, well, it depends how the game is. But monolitic, unilateral decision such as "we are bad at war, therefore we denounce you in 1800 for a war you made in -2000, until the end of the game" are just silly and keep the game to be interesting other than simply AI bashing.

A way to make the AIs less silly, would be to make them less hateful, it is to say less dependent on general systems of behavior that are supposed to challenge the player (because they are bad at war). Agendas are a bad idea and aren't even noticeable ingame (because we have to make wars if we want to compete in higher difficulty levels, and they will denounce us anyway). The denouncing circle until end of time blocks any kind of finesse in the gameplay and diplomacy and trade.
 
  1. Arabian - Abd al-Malik
  2. Armenian - Tigranes II
  3. Assyrian - Tiglath-Pileser III
  4. Aztec - Itzcoatl
  5. Babylonian - Nebuchadnezzar II
  6. Berber - Yusuf ibn Tashfin
  7. Bulgarian - Simeon I
  8. Burmese - Anawrahta Minsaw
  9. Carthaginian - Hannibal
  10. Chinese - Taizong
  11. Danish - Margaret I
  12. Dutch - Willem van Oranje
  13. Egyptian - Thutmose III
  14. English - Aethelflaed
  15. Ethiopian - Ezana
  16. French - Louis XIV
  17. German - Otto I
  18. Greek - Epaminondas
  19. Hungarian - Árpád
  20. Irish - Niall Noígíallach
  21. Iroquois - Hiawatha
  22. Incan - Pachacuti
  23. Indonesian - Kertanegara
  24. Japanese - Toyotomi Hideyoshi
  25. Judea - Hezekiah
  26. Kazakh - Öz Beg Khan
  27. Khmer - Jayavarman II
  28. Korean - Taejodae
  29. Kongolese - Lukeni lua Nimi
  30. Malagasy - Andrianampoinimerina
  31. Malaysian - Paremeswara
  32. Malian - Sundiata Keita
  33. Manchu - Kangxi
  34. Mauryan - Ashoka
  35. Maya - Pakal I
  36. Mongol - Genghis Khan
  37. Mughal - Akbar I
  38. Muisca - Nemequene
  39. Norwegian - Harald Fairhair
  40. Nubian - Piye
  41. Omani - Saif bin Sultan
  42. Ottoman - Selim I
  43. Persian - Khosrow I
  44. Philippine - Kalangitan
  45. Polish - Sigismund III Vasa
  46. Portuguese - John II
  47. Roman - Marcus Aurelius
  48. Romanian - Vlad III
  49. Russian - Ivan IV
  50. Rwanda - Gihanga
  51. Spanish - Philip II
  52. Siamese - Ramkhamhaeng
  53. Swahili - Al-Hasan ibn Sulaiman
  54. Swedish - Charles XII
  55. Tamil - Raja Cholan I
  56. Tibetan - Songtsen Gampo
  57. Tongan - Tuʻitātui
  58. Uzbek - Amir Timur
  59. Vietnamese - Trung Trac
  60. Zulu - Shaka Zulu
Add four more to have a nice binary digit with 64 civs, it also work for a qualifiying tournament of civs 64>32>16>8>4 >2 >1
 
I think it's more a matter of mentality : we like what we can see, because we talk about it, and it makes for good jokes and funny talk, precisely because the AI is mad. General Discussion is full of that, and unfortunately the devs are reading it... Nuclear Gandhi, Giant Death Robots... don't get me wrong, I appreciate such jokes and even the incorporation of them in the real game, but that shouldn't be a brake to more innovation. We will find the jokes, don't worry. After this it's a historical game, we have to stick with historical names, however I think there is a couple ideas out there that would need leaders faces to disappear, and even without them, only for the sake of developement time and efficiency, like focusing on what's really important. (AI, revolutionnary systems, etc.)
Or people just have different tastes from you. I wouldn't touch a Civ game with no or changing leaders. If I want to play Crusader Kings, I'll play Crusader Kings.
 
I am sorely disappointed that if we ever get Romania, Transylvania, or any Vlach representation it will be for the vampire stuff. :cry:
How else would we get Romania? :p

Now that Vietnam has gotten in on the coattails of one legendary female leader, I hope if it returns it can have Le Loi as a leader. I am not extremely well-versed in Vietnamese history, but what I know of Le Loi is fascinating.
Even though I was advocating strongly for her this time around, I agree that probably Le Loi, or any other non legendary female leader, should be next for Vietnam. The only exception is if she comes with her sister as a unique general riding a war elephant. :mischief:

I wish leaders change during the game, but not a la Humankind : the change would seem "logical". Example : Gaul > Gallo-roman > Franks > France. In that case there is not many choices, but there could be many in the case of Rome for example : you could choose among whatever barbarians installed in ancient Roman Empire there's in the game. (it is to say maybe not that much after all)
As much as I wouldn't mind changing leaders, that's definitely not what I would have in mind. That still seems too similar to Humankind. When I think of changing leaders midgame I'm looking at more along the lines of if you choose France you have the option to start with either Louis XIV or Napoleon. If you start with Louis XIV, but decide you want to become more militaristic, then you have the chance to have a "revolution" and install Napoleon as leader.

Add four more to have a nice binary digit with 64 civs, it also work for a qualifiying tournament of civs 64>32>16>8>4 >2 >1
60 civs is probably the maximum limit they might reach next time around. Having between 54 to 58 civs might be more reasonable.
 
How else would we get Romania? :p
For its rich culture and unique position as the only Romance-speaking Orthodox culture*? :p I guess we memed in Tamar--might as well meme in Romania. :mischief:

*Their close cousins the Aromanians are also Orthodox, of course, but the Aromanians don't really have a civ to attach them to...
 
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