Civplayers OOS patch is live!

[CanuckSoldier]

What multiple versions are you talking about, there has been only one single version of the OOS Mod released by Civplayers. So I guess it is you that is talking with out knowing what you are talking about. And what "everyone" are you talking about? I took into consideration the opinions of a broad range of the MP players that I have contact with, just because I didn't ask you doesn't mean that I acted on my own. I manage a league of 900 players that is the single largest cohesive group in the MP community, I also have regular dealings with Civfr(french), TheBattleField(German), and KAC(Polish), and CivFanticsRU(Russian), all linguistic MP centric fan sites. So just because I didn't consult yourself or the small group here or the even smaller group at Apolyton about an MP issue doesn't mean I made this decision out of nowhere. But I see your are not likely to be swayed by logic and are firm in your beliefs so I will leave you with them, and not waste any more of my time explaining my position.

CS

 

[Mettius]

If Fraxis has abandoned the product, I'll be happy to see unofficial patches, I just wish there was version identification to make it easy for folks to know what they are running.

One question I have is how are we getting patches to non python portions of the code?
Was the source code released to the community?

If these patches are community efforts, we can certainly do limited testing prior to release to the community at large, and there is no reason we can't branch out to our own versions of the game. But somehow I'm doubting they actually released our code. (It would be great if they did).

 

[OctavianFlu]

What multiple versions are you talking about, there has been only one single version of the OOS Mod released by Civplayers. So I guess it is you that is talking with out knowing what you are talking about. And what "everyone" are you talking about? I took into consideration the opinions of a broad range of the MP players that I have contact with, just because I didn't ask you doesn't mean that I acted on my own. I manage a league of 900 players that is the single largest cohesive group in the MP community, I also have regular dealings with Civfr(french), TheBattleField(German), and KAC(Polish), and CivFanticsRU(Russian), all linguistic MP centric fan sites. So just because I didn't consult yourself or the small group here or the even smaller group at Apolyton about an MP issue doesn't mean I made this decision out of nowhere. But I see your are not likely to be swayed by logic and are firm in your beliefs so I will leave you with them, and not waste any more of my time explaining my position.

CS

Are you seriously this inept. Firaxis version 3.17 is not the same as Firaxis version 3.17 with your installed patch. This is what is meant by having multiple versions, and not being able to differentiate between these two versions is catastrophic at worst, and annoying at best. I can't believe you didn't know that. What are you doing releasing patches? When introducing a fix for a problem you do not introduce other problems, and should have little to no impact on the end user. You obviously have no clue what you are doing, and would be fired from any software release company for doing something like this.

Who cares who you represent CS. We could care less. The point is now that people like myself, and believe me I am not the only one, are now forced to switch between a "Patched" version, and the "Unpatched" version when selecting games from the lobby. For example, I enter last night into the lobby. There is a FFA 5/6 players. I join the game, and I have the patch and the others don't. I had to quickly exit civ iv and then uninstall the patch. Launch the game. Enter into the lobby only to find it filled. I waisted 45mins switching back and forth between the "Patched" version and the "Original" version before finding a game, where it would have taken 5-15 minutes before -- ALL this headache for one stupid nuisance for you League players that you introduced.

You obviously are not in touch with the regular online community to understand the impact of your actions. You obviously have no software release management, or else you would have had better version controls, and you would have had early adopters such as your leage, and if accepted and no problems were to be introduced move it onto the regular community. You obviously do not consider other peoples playing experience or you would take mine, and others opinions more seriously instead of replying with "I have this many downloads" . " I represent this many people ", which doesn't answer my underlying concern. How the hell are you supposed to manage two version in multiplayer, and how are you going to resolve the incompatabilities now between the two versions.

You obviously don't GET - IT.

 

[rastaman85]

I´m also pissed by this new "patch". To me it causes only problems. Some Mods just dont work with it and it causes sooo many OOS Errors, and as it is to much work to allways install and de-install the "patch", I will make a second installation of Civ 4 BTS with patch. So, thanks for filling 3 gb´s on my harddrive.

The other problem is that you can allready see how it immediatly reduced number of games in lobby.



I can only hope that the regular civ community will survive this, and I will not be forced into league playing.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

I'm not sure why you think it's so much work to install or uninstall the patch, it takes only 30 sec either way, and we even have a script that will switch dll's automatically when run in the assets folder here, http://league.civplayers.com/getFile.php?id=69 And the only reason it causes OOS's is from people not installing it, which is easy to educate them. But of course this is my opinion.

CS

 

[OctavianFlu]

I'm not sure why you think it's so much work to install or uninstall the patch, it takes only 30 sec either way, and we even have a script that will switch dll's automatically when run in the assets folder here, http://league.civplayers.com/getFile.php?id=69 And the only reason it causes OOS's is from people not installing it, which is easy to educate them. But of course this is my opinion.

CS

We shouldn't need to switch between patched, and unpatched versions in order to find a game online and we should not be required to force people to un/install a patch in order to join an organized game that is looking for more players to join.

This to me, and others, is worse than the bug you were fixing, and has added a level of complexity that was not here before, and did not need to be introduced. I welcome you to count how many game titles show "Patched", and "Unpatched", and I urge you to argue how you did not split the online gaming community apart based upon that fact.

Just for another example of how this patch really is a pain in the ass. I have the patch installed, and join a game and wait 10 minutes while it starts to fill. Only a few players have joined, and is far from being full, meanwhile a unpatched game is advertising in the lobby and is quickly being filled up, but I am hesitant to quit the game I am in because from the time it takes me to exit the lobby, exit the game, and then switch dll files, reload the game, log back in the game could already be filled leaving me in a position of being unpatched. Then in order to rejoin the patched game I would have to repeat the steps.

Doesn't that sound like a pain in the ass or do you not play online? Oh wait. You only play league games.... What are you doing middling around with the regular online community?

 

[Naokaukodem]

Man (CanuckSoldier), this sucks big time. You are speaking about "education", well how far is this "education" when a player just shut down his game because it said that i had a different version? Wow, . .. .. .. .ing "educational", people quits without a word, considering you as a plague!

While you were at it, why didn't you fix the "long name bug", when you have a long name sometimes it will prevent your check and ban boxes to be seen, hence by ban by the ladder community. Oh wait.. you were not concerned by it so you didn't even think about it. And i'm not the only one with this problem.

Moderator Action: Don't use inappropriate language please.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Nao, that is an interface issue, that we can't easily change at all. It took me 6 months to get Alex Mantaris to find the bad code for the OOS bug and provide a fix for it. And it's not that hard to tell people that there is a OOS patch when you enter a staging room. Just show them the url to the D/L and the url to Alex Mantaris's post here at CFC if they don't trust you. There is 3700 D/L's to date so obviously this is not a virus or trojan, but just a fix for a bug that has plagued the MP community for some time.

CS

 

[OctavianFlu]

Man (CanuckSoldier), this sucks big time. You are speaking about "education", well how far is this "education" when a player just shut down his game because it said that i had a different version? Wow, . .. .. .. .ing "educational", people quits without a word, considering you as a plague!

While you were at it, why didn't you fix the "long name bug", when you have a long name sometimes it will prevent your check and ban boxes to be seen, hence by ban by the ladder community. Oh wait.. you were not concerned by it so you didn't even think about it. And i'm not the only one with this problem.

Naokaukodem, as you can see in his reply he doesn't take our concerns seriously, and the only response you get from him is how many downloads people have, and how easy it is to inform people to install a 3rd party unverified unaccredited no-liability patch. If that were the case then you wouldn't have as many mis-matched versions online, and you wouldn't need to switch between the patched/unpatched version of the game just so Ladder members can attack from a stupid boat which one would only do as Ragnar or with marines ... it troubles me that someone with a huge channel can impact a game without feeling the consequences, and only replies with "look how many downloads I have", and "educate the public", that doesn't change the fact that there are two unidentified versions out there. I really hope he doesn't release another patch, but given that it took 6 weeks to fix a non-existant bug for most of us I hardly doubt we'll see one for another year

 

[Mylon]

Firaxis made an excellent game with Civ4 and making it so open to modding, but they have really dropped the ball on post-product support.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Firaxis made an excellent game with Civ4 and making it so open to modding, but they have really dropped the ball on post-product support.

I agree and I hope that they do learn from their mistakes....but looking back at Civ2, Civ3 and Civ4, they still haven't got the picture that MP can be so much more than it is if they just had some vision from day 1.

CS

 

[Naokaukodem]

Nao, that is an interface issue, that we can't easily change at all. It took me 6 months to get Alex Mantaris to find the bad code for the OOS bug and provide a fix for it. And it's not that hard to tell people that there is a OOS patch when you enter a staging room. Just show them the url to the D/L and the url to Alex Mantaris's post here at CFC if they don't trust you. There is 3700 D/L's to date so obviously this is not a virus or trojan, but just a fix for a bug that has plagued the MP community for some time.

CS

CanuckSoldier, i was not the host of the incriminated game. I was a joining player, and this is the host who decided to quit without a word, not letting me the time to realise that there was a patch. Exactly what ladder hosters do when they don't see my check/ban boxes, when this has no impact on the game.

 

[irish-dojo]

this new oos patch is the most stupid annoying and will probubly lead to the end of MP on civ iv .
What happend was when CS was playing he attacked and went oos so stupidly without thinking at all he made a patch an just threw it into the MP community without waring to non CP an it has just torn the hole MP community apart i hadnt played online four over a mounth because i was trying to improve my skills so i might win a game and as soon as i try and play im kicked out of every game because i didnt have a patch and i wondered what patch i look in the searchh for updates it said there was non i went back to the lobby and asked what patch? and CS you were in the lobby and know one told me what patch it was no1 said anything

So if a new player is looking for the patch how will they find it when the stupid maker of the patch wont even tell him tell me this CS why make a patch for a problem no one new about 99.9% of people didnt no there was a problem now i cant play in MP cus the patch does not work on my cpu and im not going to install it unless it an offical patch

But thanks anywat CS for ruining the hole MP comunity you JACKASS

and dont post back learn how to spell or something stupid i want a real anser from you

Moderator Action: Don't flame
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Well if you want a real answer resorting to swearing is not going to get it. I don't know why no one told you were to get the patch in the lobby, but I can't be there 24 hrs a day(just because I'm logged into C4F doesn't mean I'm at my computer, that is what the AWAY at the end of my name means), I'm sure that if you had asked in the lobby someone would have been nice enough to tell you exactly were to D/L it from. So other than your bad experience in learning about the patch, what what is your complaint? The patch solves a valid bug that effects us all eventually, and Firaxis isn't going to solve this for us, so if you were in my position what would you do? It is always easy to criticize others, it's much harder to offer an alternative that solves the issue.

CS

 

[Mylon]

I agree and I hope that they do learn from their mistakes....but looking back at Civ2, Civ3 and Civ4, they still haven't got the picture that MP can be so much more than it is if they just had some vision from day 1.

CS

Unfortunately, I can't really agree with you there. I've played online in the ZOMG ZERG RUSH KEKEKE games where I have a warrior sitting in the forest around my town before I can build anything (And I can't exactly root him out, I'd suffer penalties attacking that warrior and the forest otherwise chokes my development) and I've played long drawn out LAN games (far too drawn out, really) with friends. Neither is terribly exciting. Single player is the best arena for this game.

That doesn't mean that they shouldn't patch it to help keep multiplayer viable, however.

 

[ori]

Moderator Action: Keep it civil - no need to flame other users
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Naokaukodem]

Unfortunately, I can't really agree with you there. I've played online in the ZOMG ZERG RUSH KEKEKE games where I have a warrior sitting in the forest around my town before I can build anything (And I can't exactly root him out, I'd suffer penalties attacking that warrior and the forest otherwise chokes my development) and I've played long drawn out LAN games (far too drawn out, really) with friends. Neither is terribly exciting. Single player is the best arena for this game.

That doesn't mean that they shouldn't patch it to help keep multiplayer viable, however.

I have to say that MP is a little special. But SP, with its difficulty levels, is no less special. This is due to cottages, that can make a huge difference. I hate them because they put time to grow. More of 1 time, this will slow your entire civ. The time they grow, you could do nothing. I pray for Firaxis to remove them on the next Civ.

However, your argument of Civ4 not being user friendly falls in that if Firaxis would have spend more time on MP from the start, it would be user friendly.

 

[irish-dojo]

im just angry that cant get a game because CS thinks he has the right to relese an unoffical patch into the MP community without waring put hey thanks for ruining MP for me and many other players . This hole oos bug you trying to fix i will be honest and say i and no1 i have ever played with has got there game ruined by oos i have never even gone oos since this patch arrived so you have just caused a huge problem to fix a realy really really really tiny one that about 10 have experinced

 

[Mylon]

I have to say that MP is a little special. But SP, with its difficulty levels, is no less special. This is due to cottages, that can make a huge difference. I hate them because they put time to grow. More of 1 time, this will slow your entire civ. The time they grow, you could do nothing. I pray for Firaxis to remove them on the next Civ.

However, your argument of Civ4 not being user friendly falls in that if Firaxis would have spend more time on MP from the start, it would be user friendly.

I tend to play Civ4 from a builder approach. It kinda bugs me when I run out of buildings to built. In fact, I even modded the game so when there's nothing else, one can put an infinite number of hammers into improving the different commerces and improving production. It changed those silly "build research" processes into "build research labs".

Cottages are an extension of that, but I can see how you might not like them.

Honestly, the game splits everything up into far too many discrete elements. There is research, which is king in this game. There's military, which costs almost nothing to maintain (leading to stacks of doom). There's military healing, which is free and often very fast (thus unless a unit gets a kill, an failed attack is pointless), there are workers, which improve a city but (once built) are independent of the city's actual hammer usage, then you have city production, with all of its nuances of specialists, cottages, etc, then there are civics, then there are great people. The complexity is nice, but all of the detail seems lost on me. It's like some of it needs to be abstracted and consolidated.

 

[Roska]

The patch does not work for me. I have followed all instructions and gathered advice from the guys in the lobby but its no good. I now find myself excluded from online games of Civ. I've been playing regularly for years and i'm devastated. What the hell is going on here?