CIVplomacy in the Ten Tribes

[Slvynn]

1. Thank you for just listening my thoughts
2. It's ok, but now to fuel interest for such a team game i need to do something with my culural allegiance..
3. I really tried to contact in PM Tornado, but noone ever answered . Jehoshua, did you recieved the letter from me, or is it problem in pm messaging that i never got reply from any of Tornado clan?
4. My soul is for hire, and i want active clan. Priest Slvynn see that songs and tales about heroic war deeds wont help the Maya..... Perhaps ancient lore, which helps to discover the wisdoms of future? Or perhaps just warfare, without "honorable" tales?

Pls recruit me into your tribe. Your tribe should be Domination VC related or Cultural VC related, and it should be active messaging/coordination wise.

Ah.. and i vote Yes

 

[Jehoshua]

Im not in the Tornado clan , I follow the way of the Tsunami youngling

 

[Slvynn]

Im not in the Tornado clan , I follow the way of the Tsunami youngling

or was it Tsunami?
Culture/Scientifics.... I wrote to you, that's for sure.... you didn't replied to me
Who need zealous priest who want to leave the Volcano ways because they have no bright future.... I am up for intrigue..... Recruit me before session end so i will be able to convert this session!

 

[Carnid]

So zealous he believe he has no future! Not a very strong believer of his own faith I'd say!

 

[Jehoshua]

I know, those volcano priests are so... unpredictable. Anyways very well then, collaboration shall be the way forward. However as it stands there is not so much that needs to be done, so there is not so much point replying to your post.

Things will happen... but the stars are not yet right

 

[Slvynn]

Yes, we, ex-volcano priests are unpredictable
I am Zealous towards things i believe, and since i dont see The big future for stand-alone Culture in Mayan society, my zeal will switch to things that are real.
So, was that a Yes, Tsunamis? Or Was that something else?

 

[Jehoshua]

Children of the Tsunami it is.

 

[Slvynn]

Mega-Zealous Priest Slvynn Decided that Mayan Lore and Folklore have too much disturbing tunes, It would be hard to Combine War Glory and Literature development given all the Tribes aims differences and pearl of Mayan ingenuity - Pyramids. When Lizard, Beetle and Rodent pull The Leaf into different sides, the Leaf might be broken. The Cult of Apocalypse also is hidden rogue, which could bring woe on Mayan People. Mayan people need culture, poetry, and knowledge, and unification!
I change tribe to Tsunami.

 

[Ceskari]

Ceskari votes Yes for the Pyramid. He has already made a dice game with fire-hardened clay cubes. Those seem to stack up nicely, but a tower falls so easily. A shape where there is a big layer of cubes on the bottom, then gradually tapering to a point... that's an idea! I am glad Dot80 is helping me out.

Regarding the clay vessels, it seems easier to make a long rope out of moist clay and wind it up to a vase shape, then put it in a hot oven...

 

[GreyWithAnE]

I vote YES on Pyramid.

I also make the following action (for now): Research Writing after Pottery is completed.

The plan is to build the Great Library and use it to pop either Philosophy or Ironworking. Which one...well, we can fight that out later. But I think we all can agree that we would want one of those two. And unless the AI has changed drastically since G&K, a beeline to the GL on Prince is a pretty safe move.

Those of you with an action to spare this round: support is appreciated.

And why do I post here, rather than PM everyone who I think will support? Because PMing is rather boring for everyone not being PMed. This is not an official complaint on the rules, but merely a reiteration that the point of this is to have fun .

 

[DevilHell]

And why do I post here, rather than PM everyone who I think will support? Because PMing is rather boring for everyone not being PMed. This is not an official complaint on the rules, but merely a reiteration that the point of this is to have fun .

OOC:

I totally agree with this
I want that at least in the beginning we all plan and agree on the things we are doing, so we coordinate better

On the other side, GreyWithAnE, I'm not sure if you read what I wrote before, but I will re write it just for the people to see, because apparently many haven't seen it.

OOC:

I know there are ones who want to beeline writing right after pottery, and I'm sure it will be then Philosophy and then Education, if we continue so
I don't completely differ, but it is also important to expand enough in the beginning, 3 or 4 or 5 cities, and if we go directly for Writing ---> Philosophy ---> Education we are not going to have time to do this, and we will also be late in defense, and I HAVE BEEN attacked in Prince on turn 80, to the point that I lost my capital.
The Scout is mostly to see if we have close neighbours, but also to catch some goody huts and meet CSs and detect the Barbarian camps, But independently from if we have close neighbours or not, we have to research at least masonry to take advantage of the Sugar on the North and the Marble on the East
We have to research Animal Husbandry sometime to check if we have Horsies, that would increase our production, since we only have one close Hill

So in this case, about the Great Library thing: Yes, it's really easy to get it, but even if we got it, and the opened Iron Working with it, we wouldn't have a worker, and we wouldn't have warriors to upgrade, and neither would we have other cities
So it would stuck us a little bit so please read above and give me your opinions

Slvynn: Thank you

 

[GreyWithAnE]

First thing's first, I'll rephrase my action so it's not ambiguous in any way: Queue Writing directly after Pottery in the research queue.

Then, to Mr. Hell:

So in this case, about the Great Library thing: Yes, it's really easy to get it, but even if we got it, and the opened Iron Working with it, we wouldn't have a worker, and we wouldn't have warriors to upgrade, and neither would we have other cities
So it would stuck us a little bit so please read above and give me your opinions

We're in agreement on the following:

1) Beelining to Education is a bad call, especially since they gave Education more prerequisites and nerfed Great Scientists (I don't know the exact math on it, but I know they're not super-broken anymore).

2) Putting all our sweat into the GL and Ironworking won't be so great if we don't have workers or cities.


So here's my response (although I'd love to hear more from everyone else):

1) We don't beeline to Education, because that is hella far off. But we should push for Theology early, as it lets us start our civ ability rolling, and this means Writing is a worthwhile play right now. Given how GL-building usually goes, we'll probably be able to research at least Animal Husbandry, Mining, and Bronzeworking or Calendar (in that order) before we finish the library. And in terms of production, we may even want to jam another Scout/Warrior/Atlatlist in there, depending on how the numbers work out.

2) Building workers out of your capital is for the birds! If we don't go Liberty first (which it looks like we're not), then we get 2 workers like so: one by borrowing the necessary gold from a neighbor, and the second stolen from a City-State. Works every time .

As for getting extra cities...well, that might not happen as perfectly. But going early Settler is always ugly (and boring!) because it takes so long in the early game, and for all those turns we get no population growth. Oh well, you can't have it all (at least not before turn 150 or so ).

 

[DevilHell]

First thing's first, I'll rephrase my action so it's not ambiguous in any way: Queue Writing directly after Pottery in the research queue.

Then, to Mr. Hell:



We're in agreement on the following:

1) Beelining to Education is a bad call, especially since they gave Education more prerequisites and nerfed Great Scientists (I don't know the exact math on it, but I know they're not super-broken anymore).

2) Putting all our sweat into the GL and Ironworking won't be so great if we don't have workers or cities.


So here's my response (although I'd love to hear more from everyone else):

1) We don't beeline to Education, because that is hella far off. But we should push for Theology early, as it lets us start our civ ability rolling, and this means Writing is a worthwhile play right now. Given how GL-building usually goes, we'll probably be able to research at least Animal Husbandry, Mining, and Bronzeworking or Calendar (in that order) before we finish the library. And in terms of production, we may even want to jam another Scout/Warrior/Atlatlist in there, depending on how the numbers work out.

2) Building workers out of your capital is for the birds! If we don't go Liberty first (which it looks like we're not), then we get 2 workers like so: one by borrowing the necessary gold from a neighbor, and the second stolen from a City-State. Works every time .

As for getting extra cities...well, that might not happen as perfectly. But going early Settler is always ugly (and boring!) because it takes so long in the early game, and for all those turns we get no population growth. Oh well, you can't have it all (at least not before turn 150 or so ).

OOC:

Well I discarded the GL for Iron Working thing, because going IW early is an offensive rush, while the GL is a completely passive one

Now I will present what I did, I simulated a start like ours ( I mean, all the yield around us is 2 food one gold, and so did I play )
Specifications: I only met one CS first

Turn 18 - Pyramid completed
20 - Writing done, GL starts to be build
25 - Tradition
28 - Pantheon
38 - Bought a Worker with Natural money
49 - First luxury improved and sold immediately
56 - Horsies improved and sold immediately
56 - Bought a Settler
70 - First built Settler (So the GL was done circa turn 60, and THAT because I didn't have Marble, with Marble it would have been turn 50, as I checked in my other simulation)

Tech path: Pottery - Writing - Mining - Masonry (Masonry beeline for the Marble) - Calendar - Animal Husbandry - Drama and Poetry

Then we unlock Philosophy and go for Theology

This is what would happen

I am not saying that I am supporting this, although I am not against it, I am just presenting
I will do another simulation without the GL and then post it

 

[GreyWithAnE]

Simulations are awesome. I wouldn't complain about that order, although perhaps our surroundings will inform us more over what would be best for popping GL. Masonry is a great point that I hadn't thought on before.

The point to be made about Ironworking is that we CAN use the GL to go for something of a "hybrid" development that goes offensive a bit, if we want (the way I see it, GL is a slow, passive opening...until you take Ironworking with it ). There are a few folks around trying for a Domination victory, after all. And if we're thinking long-term, aren't we getting the same number of "free" beakers with Theology vs. IW?

But that's something we can fight out down the line.

 

[DevilHell]

Third Simulation:

I didn't do a log because I wanted to play fast, but for turn 70 this is the summary

Specifications: I met 2 CSs first and the only Ruin I hit was plus 20 culture, really early

Turn 70:

3 cities with 3 shrines each (Cap 5 pop, the other two cities at 3 population and one about to go 4)
3 warriors
3 composite bowmen
3 workers
1 scout (because the first one got killed)
121 gold and 8 gpt
8 happiness
The two first columns of the tech tree are filled except for Sailing and researching IW, the cities are building Libraries right now

As I don't have G&K I did this with the demo, as Bouddica (or something like that haha), so I couldn't build Pyramids in my cities, but if I had done it I would already be at least half into IW

1 Warrior from the start of the game and the other two build one by second city and one by cap
1 archer gifted by Hanoi (Ok, this can be taken as luck, because they wanted me to connect Horses for them haha, and this may not happen)
The other two archers rush bought and then all upgraded
3 workers from the capital
1 scout from the second city because the first one got killed, and I had to wait for writing to finish
And 1 of the two Settler was bought, just saying

Build order:
Capital: Scout - Shrine - Worker - Settler - Worker - Worker - Warrior - Library
Second city: Shrine - Warrior ( I chopped a forest) - Scout - Library
Third city: Shrine - Library

The key is to sell the first two luxuries or luxury and 4 horses as soon as you have them, so you can buy a Settler and 2 Archers

EDIT: Oh! Tech path was Pottery - Mining (because I had gold, what I really mean is luxury tech to sell quickly) - Animal Husbandry (for horses) - Trapping (again, luxury tech) - Archery and The Wheel for early roads (because I adopted Messenger of the Gods, which I think we are gonna take.. idk) - Masonry and Construction for composite Bowmen (because I had Carthage really close) - Writing and then going for IW, although one could modify that

Opinions..

 

[DevilHell]

Simulations are awesome. I wouldn't complain about that order, although perhaps our surroundings will inform us more over what would be best for popping GL. Masonry is a great point that I hadn't thought on before.

The point to be made about Ironworking is that we CAN use the GL to go for something of a "hybrid" development that goes offensive a bit, if we want (the way I see it, GL is a slow, passive opening...until you take Ironworking with it ). There are a few folks around trying for a Domination victory, after all. And if we're thinking long-term, aren't we getting the same number of "free" beakers with Theology vs. IW?

But that's something we can fight out down the line.

The problem with going GL ----> IW is that you won't have any warriors , OR workers (, OR cities ((, you may not even have Iron

So please compare both the simulations I posted, and give me your opinion when you can

 

[DevilHell]

OOC:

I haven't issued my command, because nobody has posted their idea of a tech path or what they may want to do
I'm not sure if everybody PMed their commands or nobody has PMed them (surely the first one) which is really bad for coordination
So may command for this council is to Call for a vote to: Build a Worker after the Pyramid is done
Lets see what the people think of this Idea..
I will do the long writing later

 

[Slvynn]

Means we again broken 10 turns sequence?
You cant call this turn, we barely finished 2nd session
Means you call vote and we will have session 3 on turn 3

I dont think it going to be constructive, esp before we advance at least some in game to at least finish scout

 

[DevilHell]

Means we again broken 10 turns sequence?
You cant call this turn, we barely finished 2nd session
Means you call vote and we will have session 3 on turn 3

I dont think it going to be constructive, esp before we advance at least some in game to at least finish scout

OOC:

Well it doesn't matter because Jeshoshua already called for a vote so..
And I don't command it because I don't want this to be definitive, I want to know what the people think of this approach

 

[GreyWithAnE]

This is kind of a boring answer, but it looks to me like they're not too different from each other. More units in the second run, more techs in the first (it may not seem like the first has that much more tech, but both Philosophy and Drama & Poetry are something like 5 times as many beakers as the 2nd column techs). And if "the key" to the second one is to sell your luxuries early, then you can do that in the first one too. Both of them seem like they could lead to a game with lots of open options and pathways to victory. If this were my game on my own computer I'd probably take the 1st option hands-down, but the Mayans here could live with either.

EDIT: Jehoshua's sounded like a command to me at first...but I guess it is a Call to vote. :yawn:

Yahzuk: I vote in advance for next session, assuming neither Jehoshua nor Devil is attacked, because I might be away for the next couple days:

Yes to queueing Tradition
No to queueing Worker