A question then for those who have viewed/run multiple simulations. What principals can be gleaned from these simulations about which AI Civs are generally stronger (possibly just due to how well the AI can use their advantages), what makes a strong AI Civ, what AI attitudes or other conditions contribute to overall AI performance? Are there specific AI Civs/attitudes that tend to always dominate when there is no human player around?
Clash of the AIs!
- Thread starter Tabarnak
- Start date
Peng Qi
Emperor
Basically that the strongest AI civs are the most simple. For example, the Venice AI has absolutely no idea what it's doing. It sits on its MoV looking for a city state even though there are none in the game. It builds a really strong navy because that's in its flavor files, but utterly neglects its ground forces and so ends up fodder.
This applies to any civ with a complex or highly specific strategy at their core. AI Huns often do extremely poorly because they don't know that they're supposed to attack extremely early, and when they do attack they fail to properly value their Horse Archers.
AI Byzantium was very poor until it was re-scripted to always finish Piety first, since AIs don't understand how to focus on religion; they just stumble into it if they happen to do so.
Essentially, all AIs actually have the exact same AI. The "flavors" system helps a tiny bit, but can't account for the specifics of each Civ. The one thing that generic AI is consistently good at is building an economy via expansion and an army. Any Civ that doesn't thrive when doing one of these two things will be weak.
What about a map that was all of the warmongers together in a death match? Shaka vs Bismark vs etc etc etc.
The AI for Assyria is probably as bad as the AI for huns, eh? I've virtually never seen seige towers get built by the AI even though they are awesome at taking cities before gunpowder.
The AI for Assyria is probably as bad as the AI for huns, eh? I've virtually never seen seige towers get built by the AI even though they are awesome at taking cities before gunpowder.
I would like to see a kind of duel tournament with elimination rounds with 1vs1 matches. What about 2vs2 or 3vs3?
Does someone tried this?
Delnar_Ersike
Prince
To be fair, it was with in an AuI test game, and AuI changes a lot of the scoring behind world congress proposals, one of them being a bonus or penalty to scholars in residence's score based on how well the AI is doing tech-wise in absolute terms (eg. if you're halfway through the game, you should be at least halfway through the tech tree).You've seen scholars in residence pass?
I've literally never seen it pass unless I had enough votes alone to force it through alone.
Most of it relies on how well the civ's UA, UU, and UB fits into how the AI works. For example, Poland's, Japan's, and Greece's UAs can be used pretty well, while Maya's, Sweden's, and Austria's UA are used fairly poorly. UU's that are essentially just stronger versions of existing units, eg. Mohawk Warriors, Longbowmen, or Musketeers, work much better than UU's that change a unit's role, eg. Camel Archers, Siege Towers, or Battering Rams, or UU's that depend on you using the UU's unique promotions, eg. Chukonus or Janissaries. The AI is programmed to make use of some "weird" uniques, eg. Nau's trade ability or Celts leaving unimproved forests that give their cities faith alone, while others are completely ignored, eg. Feitorias or Samurai and Legions being able to build certain improvements.
The usual rule of thumb is that the more "ordinary" the civ's uniques, ie. the more it falls in line with the AI's algorithms (simple boosts to stats that don't require special strategies are a good bet), the better the AI fares when using them.
There are quite a few exceptions, but there's no logic behind which bonuses are accounted for and which ones are ignored. For example, the Huns' bonus for razing speed is factored into the AI's decision what to do with captured cities, the Netherlands' happiness retention bonus is factored into their dealing/diplomacy algorithms, and Indonesia's luxury bonus is factored into the AI's decision of where to settle cities, but Sweden's DoF affinity is completely ignored, Austria's UA is only ever used as a passive for acquiring the CS allies they already have (they don't actively look to acquire CS allies to purchase), and France's UA is ignored when deciding where Great Works are shuffled each turn to maximize theming bonuses.
I actually think that AIs who are aggressive builders would work better than pure warmongers: Russia, Poland, and Greece come to mind.
As for Assyria and Huns not using their siege UU's properly, it's because they are still marked as non-siege, melee units, because there is no handling of units marked as siege units who are not ranged.
apocalypse105
Deity
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,705
If you want to play with city states how do you prevent that you need to found a pantheon? Because if you do reveal map you see all city states and get faith bonusses from some and so found a pantheon
this of course lets you crash you're PC because you didnt found a city .
this of course lets you crash you're PC because you didnt found a city .
Delnar_Ersike
Prince
You don't get "city state met" messages if you're playing as the observer player and choose to reveal the map (for the observer): the only messages you get are the "natural wonder found" ones, which can be quite annoying because they pop up every time you reveal/refresh the map.
kaspergm
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2012
- Messages
- 5,834
I actually got trampled by Assyria with a handful of Siege Towers in a recent game. I was playing Brazil and got the usual crappy jungle start, and furthermore had Songhai on the west, Assyria on the east and Inca to the south. Didn't end well when they all decided my lands would make a fine addition to theirs sometims during classical era.
Peng Qi
Emperor
On Immortal, the AI arguably builds TOO MANY siege towers. In my last Rome game, Assyria rolled into my territory with about 6 siege towers, 5 or 6 Warriors, and 4 or 5 Archers. Given that the siege towers can't attack units by any means, I just easily murdered the warriors and archers while blocking the siege towers from reaching my cities, then chased the now defenseless siege towers back into Assyrian lands. Ashurbanipal panicked and gave me his only other city, thus sealing his fate, as I took his capitol almost as soon as the peace treaty ended.I actually got trampled by Assyria with a handful of Siege Towers in a recent game. I was playing Brazil and got the usual crappy jungle start, and furthermore had Songhai on the west, Assyria on the east and Inca to the south. Didn't end well when they all decided my lands would make a fine addition to theirs sometims during classical era.
Hey guys,
Just uploaded another AI Only battle, this time it's an ocean map with large scale naval battles!
https://youtu.be/Dm6xGYFjFps
My apologies if I got the formatting for these embedded videos wrong, I'm trying to fix that!
If you guys have any recommendations for more AI only battles, let me know!
Moderator Action: Video wrapped in Spoiler tag.
Just uploaded another AI Only battle, this time it's an ocean map with large scale naval battles!
Spoiler :
https://youtu.be/Dm6xGYFjFps
My apologies if I got the formatting for these embedded videos wrong, I'm trying to fix that!
If you guys have any recommendations for more AI only battles, let me know!
Moderator Action: Video wrapped in Spoiler tag.
That one was lovely. Thanks for upload mate
Btw, since your tried land based warmongers, sea based warmongers, this time you can try civilizations that worst on fighting at least known as Cultural or Peaceful Civilizations. That would be fun to watch how they become monsters and conquer other civilizations' cities
Btw, since your tried land based warmongers, sea based warmongers, this time you can try civilizations that worst on fighting at least known as Cultural or Peaceful Civilizations. That would be fun to watch how they become monsters and conquer other civilizations' cities
Delnar_Ersike
Prince
Hmm, could you perhaps upload a link to the map as well? It would be quite useful for researching how the tactical AI works for naval units, as well as what happens when certain AI algorithms are tweaked.
Delnar_Ersike
Prince
No problem, I can wait; I've still got plenty of AI stuff to fix for AuI v10 anyway (currently sorting out how the AI values resources in trades). You could just attach the initial save to your post if it's small enough for attachments; if not, there are millions of file uploaders online, so pick your favorite one.
BlackWizard
King
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2010
- Messages
- 673
If you make more of this could you make sure all of AI's have strategic resources in cap? Seemed that england didnt have iron which was boring. Thanks from videos anyway
reddishrecue
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 6,503
Look at polynesia and its scouts go early and explore early.
Peng Qi
Emperor
He could also just remove the resource requirements of units.If you make more of this could you make sure all of AI's have strategic resources in cap? Seemed that england didnt have iron which was boring. Thanks from videos anyway
Hey guys,
I've attached the Ocean Timelapse savegame file onto this post, but a few annoying caveats are in place to actually play the game (since I had other mods enabled that were not in use during the recording and simulation of the AI timelapse). You will have to download and enable "Republic of Texas (v.2)", "California Republic (v.1)", "JFD's The Kingdom of Norway", "JFD's The Kingdom of Prussia", "JFD's The Soviet Union (Stalin)", "MC's Gallic Civilization", "The Goths (BNW or GK)", "Colonialist Legacies - Afghanistan", "Colonialist Legacies - Mexican Republic", and finally "North Korea Civilization (v.1)" to load the savegame file.
Of course you will also need to download and enable "In Game Editor" as well. This is the modding tool I used to create the map.
Luckily you can find them all on the steam workshop.
Also, I've recently uploaded another AI battle which you can find here:
The latest battle features four Native American tribes locked in eternal conflict, as "Always War" is enabled. Hope you guys enjoy, and let me know if the savegame file (or attachment) does not work. Cheers!
I've attached the Ocean Timelapse savegame file onto this post, but a few annoying caveats are in place to actually play the game (since I had other mods enabled that were not in use during the recording and simulation of the AI timelapse). You will have to download and enable "Republic of Texas (v.2)", "California Republic (v.1)", "JFD's The Kingdom of Norway", "JFD's The Kingdom of Prussia", "JFD's The Soviet Union (Stalin)", "MC's Gallic Civilization", "The Goths (BNW or GK)", "Colonialist Legacies - Afghanistan", "Colonialist Legacies - Mexican Republic", and finally "North Korea Civilization (v.1)" to load the savegame file.
Of course you will also need to download and enable "In Game Editor" as well. This is the modding tool I used to create the map.
Luckily you can find them all on the steam workshop.
Also, I've recently uploaded another AI battle which you can find here:
Spoiler :
The latest battle features four Native American tribes locked in eternal conflict, as "Always War" is enabled. Hope you guys enjoy, and let me know if the savegame file (or attachment) does not work. Cheers!
twilson1972
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2015
- Messages
- 164
Has anyone else been following the free for all 43 civ ai only match?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDnXRX8z-88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDnXRX8z-88
