Clashing of Empires - A standard map version of Rhye's Civilization Expanded

Awesome! I'm glad I was able to participate in making this better :) I have to stay away from civ3 a lot though, it's a real time-eating monster for me :(

Keep up the good work V!
 
Yeah, we should have two "selves": one for Civ and one for the life outside of it... :)
(now I also have work to do at home, beside the main job...)
 
Hi V.Soma, great mod! I've been looking it over and I'm impressed with what you have been able to achieve. One suggestion I would make would be to check your civilopedia entries in-game to see if the text fits into the alotted space. I noticed that in Pax Romana it overruns its boundaries. Not having so much of the information on separate lines could resolve this.

I'm interested in using the 100x100 standard map you've created for the regular RoCX civs (31, I believe). I've tried putting all of them onto the map, and it works fairly well, perhaps with the exception of Netherlands and Portugal--as long as you accept the fact that many civs would only have 1-2 cities. Perhaps it would also be necessary to reduce the cost of techs, so that 2-city civs would be able to keep up in research. Any thoughts on this?
 
I played a full game as India yesterday. I really enjoyed your mod a lot. The one thing I didn't like about Rhye's was that I always thought there were way too many civs. This mod was perfect for me. I do have a few suggestions though from my experiences:

1) It seemed like there were a number of barbarian towns on jungle squares. This was a real hassle since my units couldn't attack it because they can't enter jungle squares.

2) I think it might be better if you put another civ in the americas. Only 3 civs for those 2 contintents doesn't seem very fair. By the time I had the tech to visit them, the Mayans had token over all of South America and over half of North America making them very powerful.

3) Perhaps you could make some civs be able to clear jungles earlier than others. India for example has a whole lot of jungles and aren't able to clear them until electricity, which is pretty late in the game.

4) I think the fortify sound for musketmen is wrong. It sounded like a dieing sound instead of a fortify sound.

5) In my game I found it very hard to get a leader. I was in a constant war with the Babylonians and the Ethiopians for probably around 75-100 turns and I had less than a handful of elite troops and no leader at all.
 
6) Seemed like some of the upgrade lines were broken. I couldn't upgrade my tanks to modern armor and I still had camel riders and elephant archers in my production menu in year 2000.
 
Camber said:
check your civilopedia entries in-game to see if the text fits into the alotted space. I noticed that in Pax Romana it overruns its boundaries. Not having so much of the information on separate lines could resolve this.

OK, I will see to that. I already noticed this but thought there are other more important things to get done. But this will be also done, alright... :)

Camber said:
I'm interested in using the 100x100 standard map you've created for the regular RoCX civs (31, I believe). I've tried putting all of them onto the map, and it works fairly well, perhaps with the exception of Netherlands and Portugal--as long as you accept the fact that many civs would only have 1-2 cities. Perhaps it would also be necessary to reduce the cost of techs, so that 2-city civs would be able to keep up in research. Any thoughts on this?

It sounds VERY interesting, yes, when trying this idea, one has to balance things with tech costs, and maybe all other costs, as well, and maybe it iis not all over and fine even then - but nevertheless, it sounds exciting - Will you, Camber go on and try to get a first initiate on this?

I guess I still have things to polish with this CoE...
though I hope these will be only minor corrections ;)
 
Thanks you for the detailed feedback!
As I said in earlier posts, I do need such observations and tests (playings).

jsolomon86 said:
1) It seemed like there were a number of barbarian towns on jungle squares. This was a real hassle since my units couldn't attack it because they can't enter jungle squares.

I don not see it as THAT big a trouble, those barbs can't bother you either, can they? :) Or you want to get away them as soon as possible? Oh, my... then take Zulu, Joruba, or the Ameicans, they have UU that walks through jungle... should I give Asian civ UUs also "walk through jungle"... Hm, it does sound a fine idea,
to be tried for next version...

jsolomon86 said:
2) I think it might be better if you put another civ in the americas. Only 3 civs for those 2 contintents doesn't seem very fair. By the time I had the tech to visit them, the Mayans had token over all of South America and over half of North America making them very powerful.

I think it is OK with them being 3 civs over there in the Americas. It is MEANT to be so that they are only three - in this way they fell behind a bit in tech compared to the world... and only one of them arises as big in the modern times with the Statue of Liberty. And if you are quick, you CAN get 1 or 2 colonies in South-America. If not, just get there with some military force and colonize like Cortez did...

jsolomon86 said:
3) Perhaps you could make some civs be able to clear jungles earlier than others. India for example has a whole lot of jungles and aren't able to clear them until electricity, which is pretty late in the game.

It sounds a good idea, only then game balance will be an issue - India and China might get too powerful, don't you think? In my last tests China got to be the big boy in modern times...

jsolomon86 said:
4) I think the fortify sound for musketmen is wrong. It sounded like a dieing sound instead of a fortify sound.

Hm, this is something that is inherited from Rhye's... - ask him about it... :)

jsolomon86 said:
5) In my game I found it very hard to get a leader. I was in a constant war with the Babylonians and the Ethiopians for probably around 75-100 turns and I had less than a handful of elite troops and no leader at all.

Umm, again, I did not yhange a bit concerning this topic - so we both better ask Rhye about this! :D
 
jsolomon86 said:
6) Seemed like some of the upgrade lines were broken. I couldn't upgrade my tanks to modern armor and I still had camel riders and elephant archers in my production menu in year 2000.

Umm, this is important - I will check how this was in Rhye's - and will do according to that. What should camels upgrade to, by the way? Elephants do not upgrade, I believe - so, should camels? They are NOT horses... Or should we say that the riders of camels take up on horses when upgrading?

How do you see it? This question then concerns elephants, too...
 
V. Soma said:
Umm, this is important - I will check how this was in Rhye's - and will do according to that. What should camels upgrade to, by the way? Elephants do not upgrade, I believe - so, should camels? They are NOT horses... Or should we say that the riders of camels take up on horses when upgrading?

How do you see it? This question then concerns elephants, too...

I think they should both be upgraded to calvary. That is the only unit that makes any sense at all. Upgrading them to infantry or tanks just doesn't add up. I just think they need to be removed from the production menu in the end game since no one in year 2000 will be making these anyways.
 
V. Soma said:
I don not see it as THAT big a trouble, those barbs can't bother you either, can they? :) Or you want to get away them as soon as possible? Oh, my... then take Zulu, Joruba, or the Ameicans, they have UU that walks through jungle... should I give Asian civ UUs also "walk through jungle"... Hm, it does sound a fine idea,
to be tried for next version...
I just found it really annoying that I couldn't get rid of them. And I do think that the Indian UU should be able to go through jungles.

V. Soma said:
It sounds a good idea, only then game balance will be an issue - India and China might get too powerful, don't you think? In my last tests China got to be the big boy in modern times...
You may be right. Perhaps making it take a really long time would prevent it from getting abused. Something like 20 turns to clear the wetlands pre-electricity?
 
1.
I checked worker jobs in the editor - you cannot clear wetlands before electricity at all (Rhye's)! So I leave it like that...

2.
I checked Rhye's camels and elephants, too:
- camels DO upgrade: to cavalry
- elephants DON'T upgrade...

This leaves me to change setting for camels...
But I will have a discussion with Rhye about this topic.

3.
Elephants DON'T cross jungle in CoE so far.
So, shall I change that?
But, ehem, can an elephant, that big thing, cross that jungle, IRL?
Well, no - and it can't in Rhye's, either...
Again, I will turn to Rhye and discuss...
 
Have you ever thought of bringing out a random map version of your mod? I do really appreciate your rule changes.
 
I and Rhye swapped posts, so:

1.
I guess we can vote India their elephant unit (war elephant) to be able to enter jungle.

2.
Rhye wrote: Camel riders are a sort of cavalry, while elephants are more unique,
therefore camels will upgrade to cavalry, elephants won't.
(I hope that is accaptable).

3.
It could be set that clearing jungle after Electricity is less than 80 turns.
But jungles are not to be cleared before Electricity.
Should it be lowered from 80... say, 50?
It would give improvement for India, China and Africa, Inca - perhaps it is OK...
 
nitram said:
Have you ever thought of bringing out a random map version of your mod? I do really appreciate your rule changes.

My very first thought is that the rules are taken from Rhye's - and he has a random map version!

Clashing of Empires has special wonders designed for the world map and the civs that are placed and set into it - I don't think a random map would be any real good game with it.

As I said, there is Rhye's random map... :)
(although, I think, Rhye's Civ again is designed especially for the world map and the 31 civs it has)
 
Okay, here I will gather issues/additions/corrections for a CoE 41 version:
(with dates signaling the time when the issue came to mind)

so far:

1.
Indian UU war elephant should have ability to enter jungle (May 11)

2.
Camel riders should upgrade to cavalry (May 11)

3.
Worker job for clearing wetlands (jungle) to be lowered from 80 to x (x=50?) (May 11)
/clearing allowed with Electricity, still/

4.
CivPedia entries should fit into text-box in-game (May 11)
 
V. Soma said:
Okay, here I will gather issues/additions/corrections for a CoE 41 version:
(with dates signaling the time when the issue came to mind)

so far:

1.
Indian UU war elephant should have ability to enter jungle (May 11)

2.
Camel riders should upgrade to cavalry (May 11)

3.
Worker job for clearing wetlands (jungle) to be lowered from 80 to x (x=50?) (May 11)
/clearing allowed with Electricity, still/

4.
CivPedia entries should fit into text-box in-game (May 11)


Good changes. I'm currently playing a game as Rome and am doing pretty well. I took out Carthage and the Celts very early so I have pretty much all of Europe and a couple cities in the middle east (including babylonian's capital). Mongolia is pretty harsh with those UUs of theres. They have been declaring war against me pretty much every 20 turns. I have the tech advantage though so my rifelman have been beating up on their UU. I also got an army very early so right now I have a military academy at my disposal. I really like your mod, its very fun to play. I look forward to the new version when its ready. A couple things I've realized when playing as Rome are:

1) the constitution wonder - Should it be able to be built by all civs? or just america ones? right now I think all civs can as I was able to build it as both india and rome.

2) AI agression - it seemed pretty high (for my play style atleast). I'm at all times in a war with like atleast 2-4 people at once.

3) Resources - India has all the resources in the game very close to where they start. As Rome, I'm finding it very hard to get them all (which is how it should be). Perhaps you could look at the resources around India and make it so that they don't start with all of them.
 
jsolomon86 said:
1) the constitution wonder - Should it be able to be built by all civs? or just america ones? right now I think all civs can as I was able to build it as both india and rome.

Constituion is a general civ improvement that every civ can have
with Enlightenment. I would not change that.
Well, American Const. is the most famous IRL, but still, it is general...

jsolomon86 said:
2) AI agression - it seemed pretty high (for my play style atleast). I'm at all times in a war with like atleast 2-4 people at once.

I have actually LOWERED AI aggression from v32 to v4...:)
(of Rome, Celts...)
Otherwise.... it is called CLASHING of Empire! :D

jsolomon86 said:
3) Resources - India has all the resources in the game very close to where they start. As Rome, I'm finding it very hard to get them all (which is how it should be). Perhaps you could look at the resources around India and make it so that they don't start with all of them.

Hm, yes, yes, but there is reason behind all this.
In case of Rome, it is so that it incites
AI Rome to settle Greece, for instance.
India is hindered by landlock and jungle,
so why to further hit her with not allowing early resources?


What level are you playing - emperor?
 
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