Class action lawsuit

[Mujadaddy]

I voted yes and here's why. Back in the day great games were made not because of a multi-billion $ franchise. They were developed by people with vision, and they were "hungry" visionaries. Games today don't do that. Yet games of yesteryear could be returned. Games today can't. There's no check and balance today. Well,,,,that's why.

Is that your whole case?

 

[King Flevance]

Is there still a debate over if it is possible to sue or not?

Go get 'em. I guess... Give it a whirl. I dont have time to mess with it. Circuit City will refund it.

LOL almost to 10 pages now woot woot

 

[MrManganese]

From http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2004/04/uo_lawsuit_sett.html

So it's not even CLOSE to comparable.

The earlier case referenced there is actually one where players sued Origin for the terrible performance of UO game servers, including lag, crashes, etc. Origin decided to settle the case.

 

[MrManganese]

By the way, after several hours of work, I finally got Civ4 working on one of my machines. I must've experienced half the bugs named on the tech support forum. I'm afraid I'll be too busy playing to attend to my class action lawsuit - someone else will have to take over. I still think someone should hang for letting this game get shipped. I have no doubt there are a plethora of bugs awaiting me, but at least the game runs... only took me 3 hours.

 

[gunnergoz]

I feel like I just took a trip through a gear factory...what with all the whining. I can understand a bit of disappointment if the product is not bug free---but what is, today? Lawsuits, though? When people in less fortunate parts of the world are getting blown up and starved and oppressed? You're complaining about a GAME? Where is the sense of proportion? These products are purchased to while away "free time." Yet for many in this world, there is no such thing; it is a constant struggle for survival. People that can afford this game and the computer to play it on are 150 per cent better off than most of the rest of the world's population.
Get a grip. Get some perspective. Grow up and get on with a real life.

 

[Mujadaddy]

By the way, after several hours of work, I finally got Civ4 working on one of my machines. I must've experienced half the bugs named on the tech support forum. I'm afraid I'll be too busy playing to attend to my class action lawsuit - someone else will have to take over. I still think someone should hang for letting this game get shipped. I have no doubt there are a plethora of bugs awaiting me, but at least the game runs... only took me 3 hours.

What did you end up having to do, praytell?

 

[LogicSequence]

all i can say to this thread is

PUH-LEAZE

 

[Fabius]

Now that the fanboys have leapt at the opportunity to quell this discussion, I'd like to invite everyone else to speak up a bit. Over 50% of the respondants have, after all, responded in the affirmative.

It's not about being a fanboy. It's about what's possible and what's not. Go ahead, call up a lawyer, put him on retainer, and explain to him your problem. I'm sure he'll be happy to listen for hours on end, only to tell you a) it isn't possible and b) you owe him $750.

If Civ IV got in our drinking water and made all our babies ******** you'd have a case. If Civ IV made our employers fire us to hire younger inexperienced workers you'd have a case. If Civ IV broke into our houses and raped our wives you'd have a case.

But all Civ IV did was get released, have some bugs, and some people find it great, some people have some bugs but also faith in a game that they've played for 15 years and will hang in there for the fix, and some gripe about and seek to get their money back.

Show me your damages. What damages have you suffered as a result of Civ IV. You're unable to work? You can't make babies any more? You can no longer drive a car? Just because 86% of the people who respond would like to be a fire engine doesn't make them fire engines. A class action suit isn't about what the majority of people would like, it's about the law.

And I'm not even an attorney. Sheesh.

 

[Sadan01]

I would prefer a class action lawsuit against a multitude of companies, and not just the ones in the poll ... they aren't any much worse than the average company.

I think a class action lawsuit would have to be about Civ 3 not Civ 4. They released Civ 4 without fully patching Civ 3. That seems unethical to me -- to abandon a buggy product a client has already bought and payed for. If they don't intend to fully patch Civ 3, they should give their clients (us customers) at least a partial refund or allow us to subtract the retail cost of Civ 3 from the retail cost of Civ 4 -- which is more or less exactly what another company did for this one game that was incredibly buggy (I mean so buggy that you could barely get it to run and play)

Having a client buy a product from you involves a committment on your part to, if the product is buggy, to support it by providing all necessary patches. If that committment is abandoned (like in Civ 3), then the contract is broken. Thus it seems there is a case for a class action law suit here.

With Civ 4, I'm not sure.

So go sue Microsoft for doing this for YEARS.. Don't have Windows XP? Have Windows 98? Sorry, that's not supported anymore but it still has bugs. People are still using it. So why don't Microsoft support it? Because they have moved on. They have a life-cycle for their products and once a program ends in their life-cycle, tough. There have been only a few exceptions: Windows NT 4.0 would be a good one. I would say that Civ3 has met Firaxis' end of life-cycle.

Microsoft is FAMOUS for doing this. Using Exchange 2000 and if there is a feature in Exchange 2003 you want for 2000, too bad. Go and upgrade (and pay through the ass for licensing) to 2003 to use it. Microsoft WILL NOT accomodate your request. Where are the class-action lawsuits? No. Businesses just accept and upgrade if really necessary.

Sure, C3C still had "some" minor bugs but it is a 99.9% complete product. Before the imminent release of Civ4, the people that frequented this forum were mostly happy with Civ3.

This thread is largely irrelevant. Creating a class-action lawsuit to sue Take2/Firaxis because Civ4 caused distress or whatever because it wouldn't work on said computer is a joke. The product can be returned for exchange or money-back. The product can be retained for support or a patch from the developer which may fix the problem affecting you. I am sure in the future, Firaxis will be able to fix 95-99% of the true bugs affecting people - this of course does not include those people where their machine is actually at fault but believe it is the "crappy" programming of the developer.

Firaxis or Take2 did not FORCE you to buy Civ4 (Note: Microsoft does in a way force you to upgrade your copy of Windows for that new feature such as further integrated security or further security patching, or coming HDTV support in Vista etc etc etc) so if you dont like it, return it. Sell it to someone else. Whatever. Accept the pitfalls of PC gaming as no game is ever perfect. If those people cannot accept it, I would advise buying a console. However, I am sure that is going to change when Microsoft release their XBOX360. Buggy program? No problem. Fire up XBOX-Live and download a patch....

 

[ununcle]

Is that your whole case?

No. Actualy the rest of my case is in my 286 (dos-3-4-5-"and" 6), 386, pentium,, and celerlon. If I could "whip" it out I'd show you. But I do know civ.

 

[Shakes]

I don't see how making some lawyers richer is going to help you get the game to work on your PC.

 

[scritchy]

most people who bought this game are facing a ridiculous amount of frustration just trying ot get it to work. Even that Derek Smart game had fewer bugs than this mess of a game. Not to mention all the crappy packaging, mislabeled discs, and lack of manual that many of us have to put up with.

Define most and how you got that information. My guess is you are making it up to fit your argument. 'All the crappy packaging' consisted of a few shipments which were corrected as soon as they were found, and not repeated.

 

[elderotter]

some one posted 50% responded yes - uh the vote is 238 no to 38 yes - last time I checked 38 was half of 76 not 238. It is an overwhelming no.

 

[New World Order]

If Civ IV got in our drinking water and made all our babies ******** you'd have a case. If Civ IV made our employers fire us to hire younger inexperienced workers you'd have a case. If Civ IV broke into our houses and raped our wives you'd have a case.

I hope Sid Meier (and all the designers) will find this statement, at least mildly amusing... given the circumstances.

What damages have you suffered as a result of Civ IV. You're unable to work? You can't make babies any more? You can no longer drive a car?

Yup, sounds like Civ-addiction to me.

 

[Mujadaddy]

No. Actualy the rest of my case is in my 286 (dos-3-4-5-"and" 6), 386, pentium,, and celerlon. If I could "whip" it out I'd show you. But I do know civ.

What does that have to do with ...

I voted yes and here's why. Back in the day great games were made not because of a multi-billion $ franchise. They were developed by people with vision, and they were "hungry" visionaries. Games today don't do that. Yet games of yesteryear could be returned. Games today can't. There's no check and balance today. Well,,,,that's why.

...that?


And please don't "whip it out"

 

[TylerDurdon]

The gaming industry has been ripping people off for a couple of years now. TakeTwo & Firaxis have crossed a line, and I think it's time to make an example of them. Who's interested in seeing a class action lawsuit against TakeTwo and/or Firaxis?

Ok they rushed it... but you should take on EA... they have WAY MORE money and the lawsuit if succesfull would get us richer....

But Civ... Nope!!! He has done WAY to much for me... even if I "wasted" a mentionable part of my life on his games....

Sue The Sims.. and I'll join in

 

[grimz]

Define most and how you got that information. My guess is you are making it up to fit your argument. 'All the crappy packaging' consisted of a few shipments which were corrected as soon as they were found, and not repeated.

Looking at people who've bought the game in Canada, and based on what was in my own box. Games should come in proper packaging - I haven't bought a PC game that came with flimsier packaging. The CDs come in cheap paper sleeves and the documentation that comes with the game comes with a flimsy "quick guide" that has the audacity of saying "full manual available as a PDF file on the included disc". That's just lazy. There's no excuse for that.

 

[wit>trope]

So go sue Microsoft for doing this for YEARS.. Don't have Windows XP? Have Windows 98? Sorry, that's not supported anymore but it still has bugs. People are still using it. So why don't Microsoft support it? Because they have moved on. They have a life-cycle for their products and once a program ends in their life-cycle, tough. There have been only a few exceptions: Windows NT 4.0 would be a good one. I would say that Civ3 has met Firaxis' end of life-cycle.

Microsoft is FAMOUS for doing this. Using Exchange 2000 and if there is a feature in Exchange 2003 you want for 2000, too bad. Go and upgrade (and pay through the ass for licensing) to 2003 to use it. Microsoft WILL NOT accomodate your request. Where are the class-action lawsuits? No. Businesses just accept and upgrade if really necessary.

Sure, C3C still had "some" minor bugs but it is a 99.9% complete product. Before the imminent release of Civ4, the people that frequented this forum were mostly happy with Civ3.

This thread is largely irrelevant. Creating a class-action lawsuit to sue Take2/Firaxis because Civ4 caused distress or whatever because it wouldn't work on said computer is a joke. The product can be returned for exchange or money-back. The product can be retained for support or a patch from the developer which may fix the problem affecting you. I am sure in the future, Firaxis will be able to fix 95-99% of the true bugs affecting people - this of course does not include those people where their machine is actually at fault but believe it is the "crappy" programming of the developer.

Firaxis or Take2 did not FORCE you to buy Civ4 (Note: Microsoft does in a way force you to upgrade your copy of Windows for that new feature such as further integrated security or further security patching, or coming HDTV support in Vista etc etc etc) so if you dont like it, return it. Sell it to someone else. Whatever. Accept the pitfalls of PC gaming as no game is ever perfect. If those people cannot accept it, I would advise buying a console. However, I am sure that is going to change when Microsoft release their XBOX360. Buggy program? No problem. Fire up XBOX-Live and download a patch....

Microsoft should definitely be sued for Windows ME. I don't know much about 98.

I am satisfied with Civ 3. I am not satisfied that a company would abandon the product and not spend a little more time to fully patch it just so they can make more money with Civ 4.

If you hire a carpenter to do some work, you expect him to finish the job. If he doesn't finish it (like doesn't put the polish on), even if the product is satisfactory, i.e. functional, he's being unethical and you have a right to relief from the courts.

Is anyone here a lawyer who would support a class action lawsuit? Maybe then we would get somewhere with this idea.

I've not yet bought Civ 4 btw. I am waiting for Civ 4 Complete. And I am glad I waited after seeing threads like "Entire game is a bug" or threads like "No manual" or posts about "My manual is missing 15 pages!" ... how could these things happen?

 

[scritchy]

Looking at people who've bought the game in Canada, and based on what was in my own box. Games should come in proper packaging - I haven't bought a PC game that came with flimsier packaging. The CDs come in cheap paper sleeves and the documentation that comes with the game comes with a flimsy "quick guide" that has the audacity of saying "full manual available as a PDF file on the included disc". That's just lazy. There's no excuse for that.

Games (and a lot of non-game applications any more) come in paper sleeves, it is because they are more economical. Its been that way for years. I have a bunch of slimline jewel cases that I put the disks in after I get done installing.

Software has been coming with PDFs as manuals for a long time also. They are cheaper and a lot easier to keep updated than printed manuals. Again, its the economics of it. I wish I had a PDF of the manual actually. Mine didn't come with one, just the printed version.

 

[Mujadaddy]

Games (and a lot of non-game applications any more) come in paper sleeves, it is because they are more economical. Its been that way for years. I have a bunch of slimline jewel cases that I put the disks in after I get done installing.

Software has been coming with PDFs as manuals for a long time also. They are cheaper and a lot easier to keep updated than printed manuals. Again, its the economics of it. I wish I had a PDF of the manual actually. Mine didn't come with one, just the printed version.

Don't forget all the trees it saves!!

Recycle!