Clearing up misconceptions about Islam ( the religion ) , and a request . . . . . .

[Shaihulud]

No, but im pretty sure that Indonesians adopted Islam of their own free will as well. Not everyone was converted to islam through the sword, I understand that you wish to knock down the foundation of the islam religion, but imo it is no more irrational than Judaism and Christianity. You have to admit most religion contain violent elements and are not entirely.. rational? The important thing is how its adherent acts according to their interpretation, is it antagonistic to modern society? Usefulness as a whole to people?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Ironically, the Dutch were instrumental in spreading Islam in Indonesia - it provided an identity for resistance and opposition against colonialization that Hinduism and traditional religions failed to. This helped Indonesian Islam to turn from a religion of tradesmen and cityfolk to one of the rural masses.

 

[aneeshm]

No, but im pretty sure that Indonesians adopted Islam of their own free will as well. Not everyone was converted to islam through the sword, I understand that you wish to knock down the foundation of the islam religion, but imo it is no more irrational than Judaism and Christianity. You have to admit most religion contain violent elements and are not entirely.. rational? The important thing is how its adherent acts according to their interpretation, is it antagonistic to modern society? Usefulness as a whole to people?

I will try to destroy only those who threaten me . Islam has threatened and ravaged India repeatedly . Christianity or Judaism has not . In fact , India has been a haven for the Bene Israel ( supposedly one of the Ten Tribes ) for over four ( or three , I'm not sure ) thousand years . And in all these years , there has been no conflict with the local poplation .

I hold the ideology responsible for the ravages of Islam , and thus I will try my best to finish that ideology by exposing it for what it is .

 

[Gelion]

^ Yeah some Indians pary that the Brits were still colonising them..... or were they not Christians?

 

[aneeshm]

Ironically, the Dutch were instrumental in spreading Islam in Indonesia - it provided an identity for resistance and opposition against colonialization that Hinduism and traditional religions failed to. This helped Indonesian Islam to turn from a religion of tradesmen and cityfolk to one of the rural masses.

And now you see where that path has taken them - the path of terrorism . The Bali bombings have not yet faded from public memory . Nor have subsequent terrorist attacks . Do not forget that Bali is the one Hindu-majority island in the whole of Indonesia .

From the Wiki :

Regarding Balinese Hinduism
Regarding Bali itself
Regarding the two Bali bombings
Regarding Hinduism in Java


Why is it that the Dutch did not exert too much control over Bali ? Because the kings , warriors , and common people , every single one resisted them .

 

[aneeshm]

^ Yeah some Indians pary that the Brits were still colonising them..... or were they not Christians?

The Brits expanded for money , the Islamics for religion . That much is clear from the accounts written at the time .

 

[The Last Conformist]

@aneeshm: Point?

 

[Gelion]

The Brits expanded for money , the Islamics for religion . That much is clear from the accounts written at the time .

Nevertheless Brits massacred Indians no worse than the Mongols... what difference does it make why they did it?

 

[The Last Conformist]

The Brits expanded for money , the Islamics for religion . That much is clear from the accounts written at the time .

This belief of yours is rather amusing, but even if so? Killing someone for money isn't better than killing someone for God, is it?

 

[aneeshm]

This belief of yours is rather amusing, but even if so? Killing someone for money isn't better than killing someone for God, is it?

But you forget - the atrocities of the Brits are like a candle , when you compare them with blazing fire that was the Islamic expansion in India . And the Brits did not try to systematically eradicate Hinduism as Islamic invaders had the explicit goal of doing .

 

[aneeshm]

And we again forget - what does this have to do with Islam's core tenets ?

 

[BigBirdZ28]

And we again forget - what does this have to do with Islam's core tenets ?

1. Belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad
2. Establishment of 5 daily prayers;
3. Charity
4. Fasting Self-purification through fasting; and
5. Hajj for those who are able

This is fundamental Islam. Through 7 pages, I still cant find where these make Islam is your enemy.

 

[Homie]

If you want to imply something, then word it in a way such that laity can understand it. It does not take a person versed in semantics to understand that force can mean a great deal of things.

Of course it can, but in this context its meaning was obvious. If you honestly do not understand what I was trying to say I apologize for my accusation. But I doubt you don't understand, it is more likely that my accusation is correct.

 

[Homie]

Moderator Action: Agreed. And you're using it to bash islam.

Stop it.

Another example of what I said earlier. Any critique of a non-western people/culture/religion by a Westerner, however sensible, is brought down, it is taboo.

The misconceptions of the religion, as seen from the links to indian hindu nationalistic anti-islam websites?

People always attack the source when they cannot attack the material the source presents. If the source is unreliable, why not simply quote the lies the source provides, oops, because you can't find any.

Again with your pathetic generalizations! A muslim abroad is no less a muslim than one at home.

Believe me, two different things altogether. What I responded to that poster still holds.

I question the authencity of those passages. Muhammad always held Jews and Christians of high regard because they were "people of the book"

Obviously you choose to only remember part of history. This is true for the beginning of Muhammed's prophetic ministry, but towards the end things were quite different. Jews and Christians and pagans were slain allthesame, and have been ever since.

 

[Homie]

the same can bee said about other religions. Take Zanizibar... sizable Christian and Muslim populations, where is the interal strife? What about the 50 or so million muslims in China?

THe question you ask can be said about other religions as well. For example: If Christianity is a peaceful religion, how do you explain World War I and World War 2, etc?

The statement by AceChilla holds. He showed that pretty much everywhere a muslim country borders on a non-muslim country there is strife. Can you show the same for ANY other religion?

I.e. if you want to narrow the definition of islam down to the version of the extremeists, you cannot claim that the others are a part of that definition.

Then why is there no uproar among the regular muslim about the terrorist acts commited almost weekly? Instead there is cheering in the streets, like in Palestine after they heard about 9/11.

aneeshm, the New Testament is filled with violence and destruction in Revelation, so where is your critique of Christians?

This is a cheap shot that will only convince people that have CO CLUE about the NT. Revelations does not tell Christians or ANYONE do commit any violent acts, it simply describes the violence and destruction that people will face in the future, how could you compare this? Nor does the OT instruct people to conquer, but it records God telling Joshua to conquer the Holy Land for the Iraelites. And what does Christianity have to do with this topic? You are saying that Islam is bad, but so is Christianity, so two wrongs make a right?
Guess what, this isn't math.

 

[Homie]

This thread just strikes me as one massive Muslim bashing opportunity, and it's very sad.

This thread strikes me as a huge "let us close our eyes to what is happening" thread, which is even more sad.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

A golden age is an easy thing to achieve if you simply have to live off the wealth of the lands you have conquered and destroyed .

I thought you had to have a victorious UU to get a golden age.

Just because the Muslim caliphate made good use of their conquests doesn't mean their golden age was any less impressive.

Secondly - at the time the Christians were burning witches , the Islamic conquerors were burning infidels . Not much of a difference .

As far as I know, that was not widespread.

Thirdly - what , again , does this have to do with the texts themselves ?

Nothing. The texts are useless. You can come up with any conceivable justification for any damned thing you want from any religious text that has ever been written. If that weren't possible, there wouldn't be different schools of thought for every religion. It's the actions that speak louder than any printed word. As Islam has existed for 1400 years, their historical record is more telling than any religious notions. From my perspective, it isn't as bad as other religions -- such as those that promote a class-based society, for example.

 

[AceChilla]

It's funny how the Islamic golden age is pictured in the Western world like it was a land of milk and honey and freedom for all as a way to show Islam isn't so bad after all. Don't ever think Jews and Christians were treated equall to muslims in those days. The muslims in those days tolerated small Christian and Jewish communities, but in no way at all had they equal rights as muslims.

People should take a closer look at Mohammed the Islamic prophet who ordered the execution of whole villages of Jewish people who wouldn't convert. Who ordered the killing of poets because he didn't like what they wrote. With such a prophet, who is supossed to be THE example of how to live for any muslim man how can you ever expect to found a peacefull religion.

 

[mazzz]

People should take a closer look at Mohammed the Islamic prophet who ordered the execution of whole villages of Jewish people who wouldn't convert. Who ordered the killing of poets because he didn't like what they wrote. With such a prophet, who is supossed to be THE example of how to live for any muslim man how can you ever expect to found a peacefull religion.

can you source these?

 

[Imaginos]

Aneeshm, you say you've read the Quran and the Hadith. So, what makes you think that you're interpretation is the right one and the majority peace loving mainstream Muslims' interpretations are wrong?

You live in India with a huge Muslim population. Mosques should be plentiful there.. Have you ever gone to visit one? Or spoken to a Muslim cleric about your understanding of the passages you hold to show Islam is a violent religion and asked him to clarify those passages?