Clearing up misconceptions about Islam ( the religion ) , and a request . . . . . .

[aneeshm]

Perhaps, but an outsider is in no place to tell the practitioner what the fundamental tenets of his religion are. How can you possibly claim to know what a religion is all about if you've never practised it?

One - if the outsider has read the holy texts of a given religion , and the history of its traditions , and also the rantings of its "learned men" , he is in a very good position to tell an ignorant believer what the tenets of his religion are .

Second - by listening to those who speak for it , you can also claim to know the tenets of a religion as it is practised now . And those who speak for it are , in this case , the Ulema . And I have listened to them .

There's been more than enough evidence to show to any objective outsider that Islam does not inherently support intolerance. Just because some muslims are intolerant, it doesn't mean they have to be.

If you claim that such evidence exists , please provide it . I have provided mine .

 

[bhsup]

aneeshm, the New Testament is filled with violence and destruction in Revelation, so where is your critique of Christians? The Old Testament is filled with violence at God's behest, so where is your critique of Judaism?

This thread just strikes me as one massive Muslim bashing opportunity, and it's very sad.

 

[Winner]

Just a picture - as you can see, all the territories were brought to Islam by conquest.

 

[aneeshm]

It will be a great day when I can accept what a Hindu says about Muslims isn't full of hate and biasness. That day hasn't come.

WTH ? I have never advocated , not will I ever advocate , any action against the Muslim community . I will never stoop as low as the people I oppose . Where did you get this "hate" thing from ? I criticise the religion , not the follower . Keep that in mind .

 

[Gelion]

All you specialsits must answer this question.

 

[Oerdin]

Aneeshm has this one right. The Koran does indeed speak about Jihad has armed holy war against the nonbelievers and not as an inner struggle. Just reading the Koran tells us that much. The people who say Islam is tolerant towards fellow "people of the book" are also correct since the early parts of the Koran (written when Mohammed was still trying to win converts) is very generous to fellow monotheists. The problem comes that when the Koran contradicts itself Islamic scholars say that the last word written is the final word. Mohommed became much less tolerant as he got older and his power grew. That's when he wrote (er... "God wrote" ) the passages which Islamic fundimentalists like to quote.

The sad fact is based upon what is written in the Koran and how Islamic scholars had traditionally decided which side to take in these contradiction the fundimentalists are correct in their interpritations. That's why they gain so much support among the devote. All the fundimentalists have to do is point base their arguments upon the Koran and they win the religious debate.

 

[aneeshm]

Which virtues are they?

Few questions....

Can you build a church or a synagoge in Saudi Arabia?

Very definitely NOT ! Hell , you can't even celebrate non-Muslim festivals without being arrested .

Can a woman walk along the streets of all the muslim countries without having to have her head wrapped in some short?

In Kashmir , women who walk about without the veil sometimes have acid thrown at their faces . One of my acquaintances who had visited Saudi Arabia said that when she waited outside her hotel for her husband to come out before putting on the burkha , men stopped and stared as if she was nude .

Can you cellebrate Eastern in Iran?

I don't know , but I don't think so .

 

[aneeshm]

aneeshm, the New Testament is filled with violence and destruction in Revelation, so where is your critique of Christians? The Old Testament is filled with violence at God's behest, so where is your critique of Judaism?

This thread just strikes me as one massive Muslim bashing opportunity, and it's very sad.

Neither Christians nor Jews are trying to use terrorist violence against India . Therefore , I am content to let them be . My job here is to destroy the ideological base of Islam , not to denigrate those that follow it .

 

[bhsup]

Just a picture - as you can see, all the territories were brought to Islam by conquest.

I have a task for you. Go find an atlas and locate the western hemisphere. All the territory there was brought to Christianity by conquest by the nations of Europe.

 

[aneeshm]

It isn't a matter of PC, it's a matter of not seeing a narrow view. You seem to think that tolerance is PC, which infact is false.

But I am perfectly willing to tolerate Muslims , as long as they tolerate me . Terrorrism has focused my attention on Islam , and as I hold it to be the root of terrorism , I will not rest until I have destroyed its theological/ideological core ( at least to my own satisfaction ) . I never have and never will advocate any action against Muslims - that would be barbaric .

 

[Winner]

Just a picture - as you can see, all the territories were brought to Islam by conquest.

I have a task for you. Go find an atlas and locate the western hemisphere. All the territory there was brought to Christianity by conquest by the nations of Europe.

So what?

Christianity in its beginning was spread not by the sword. Islam was. That's the point here.

 

[ainwood]

My job here is to destroy the ideological base of Islam , not to denigrate those that follow it .

And you think there is a difference?

 

[aneeshm]

You use the word PC way toooo much.

Can you name a religion that doesn't want everyone to convert to the religion?

Hinduism , for one . In the Artha-Shastra of Kautilya , he has written :

The area extending from the Himalayas in the north to the sea in the south and a thousand yojanas wide from East to West is the area of operation of the King-Emperor .

Thus , the world of the King-Emperor if defined as what lies within the boundaries of India . After that he says :

And , having conquered the world characterised by the different varnas and stages of life , the conqueror shall enjoy it according to the percepts of dharma for kings .

This is why the empire this man set up extended across India , but did not try to expand further outside .


The Greek historian Arrian has said " . . . . . a sense of justice , they say , prevented any Indian king from attempting conquest beyond the limits of India" .



Satisfied ?

 

[CurtSibling]

And you think there is a difference?

Well, if we cannot discuss the flaweds tenets of a religion that
causes so much violence, and are instead told to 'shut up':

Then how can we ever move to solve the problems of the current era...???
To hang with political correctness, understanding is more important.

...

 

[aneeshm]

Do any of you characterizing Islam as an inherently violent religion actually know any Muslims? I know dozens, and strangely enough, none of them has held a gun to my head to force me to convert.

And what does this have to do with my criticism of the texts themselves ? I know a Muslim like Capulet - he wants to believe all the good things about his religion . He is content in what he believes to be a peaceful faith , and I am content with his ( rather fuzzy , to be frank ) vision of Islam ( for him ) .

Of course , the fact that you know them immediately preculdes the possibility of them holding a gun to your head - they come from a similar social circle , and thus hold similar views . Once you move into the world of the Ulema , things are no longer so rosy .

 

[aneeshm]

And you think there is a difference?

I would think so , as the existence of Capulet amply demonstrates ( though technically , Capulet is a heretic ) .

 

[Shaihulud]

Hinduism , for one .

I beg to differ. At one time a large portion of Indonesia and Sout East Asia were Hindu practioners. Despite the wishes of the King, Hinduism was spread around the World on winds of trade.

 

[Shaihulud]

I think that if a person follows the tenets of their religion strictly, they will be totally incapacitated. Thats propably why religious texts are usually opened to different interpretation and differect sects will form each with their own individual opinion.

 

[aneeshm]

I beg to differ. At one time a large portion of Indonesia and Sout East Asia were Hindu practioners. Despite the wishes of the King, Hinduism was spread around the World on winds of trade.

If other people want to adopt Hinduism , nobody is going to stop them . That would be as bad as forcible conversion .



And what happened to Hinduism in Indonesia ? You guessed it - it was finished by Islam . Only Bali remains Hindu today .

 

[The Last Conformist]

What about the 50 or so million muslims in China?

Well, the violent resistance movement in Xinjiang is mainly Muslim.

It's only considered 'false' if you digest the tenets of the other mono-religions.

For me, I think a better word would be 'irrelevant'......

That's a funny thing to be told by the board's most notorious god-basher.

But if you don't consider Islam false, I have to assume you believe there is a God and that Muhammad was his prophet.