Clive1 - Monarch (Training ?) game

[SesnOfWthr]

So no wonder builds & trade/blackmail for tachs?

Wonders can still bebuilt, they just take longer.

Not sure what the other part means.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Blackmail/ trade with other civs for techs. Sorry about my typing skills

 

[Bede]

Actually, Communism has become the uber government for just about everything. With the FP, Secret Police, courthouses, police stations, corruption and waste become less than annoyances everywhere in empires of up to 300 cities.

 

[Sir Clive]

I've just finished turn 8 of 10, declared against Japan and moved the stack
towards Izumo .

They attacked the stack in interturn, 3MC beat their attacking horseman and
we entered a Golden Age !!

I'll hang on for an hour or so until playing the last 2 turns in case anyone is still on line and has any suggestions.

Here's the first 3 out of the 5 turns ..

Preturn - Follow Bede's advice re building military in towns without barracks.
Emar Pikeman->Walls, Spice Jungle Pikeman->walls (would have gone worker but
would have wasted 4 shields). DesertFiller Warrior->worker.
Switch Karhayuk to worker - it is currently at 4spt
and will reach 5 spt soon - can we use this to produce a worker every 2 turns or
is this a waste since it has a barracks ? I would still like to get Harbour in Yalburt
since I think it can reach 10 spt quite quickly. Switch Hattusas back to settler.

Most towns are happy at the moment so decide that I will move 1 unit from
some of the towns which have a garrison of 3 towards the front line in preparation
for attack the Japanese and up lux to
10% or employ a couple of clowns if necessary .

IT (from last time)

Silk forests pike->3MC, OK Coral Market->Treb, Oasisland 3MC->3MC,
Russia are building Sun Tzu.


510 AD(6) Workers who were clearing wetlands re-assigned to plains / grass tiles.
General movement of workers. Move some troops towards Japan front line where possible.
Switch some workers to clear forests.

IT Hattusas Settler-> Settler . Will send settler towards front line.
. Karhuyuk worker->worker. Grassy beach pikeman->baracks (**** should have done
this preturn - we just produced a regular pikeman )
No trades available.

Decide I would like to to declare war on Japanese (gulp !!!) but there are 2 workers
building mines on the bg SW / W of Hattusha and they are right on the border
and may well be captured. Decide to stop them and move them this turn and declare
next interturn.

Check happiness in case any towns are likely to riot if I move troops out. Osgiliath
Delhi and Samuha look the most likely so I will leave the troops as they are there .


520 AD (7) Send latest settler from Hattusas towards front line. Move workers away from front
line in preparation for attack on the Japanese.

IT - nothing - decide to declare war (gulp .....) Before I do , check the forum
to see if there are any more suggestions . There aren't , so here goes. I don't really
like attacking +6 cities without units capable of bombardment but decide
we should follow the plan and head for Izumo. We'll be sending 5 swords and 5 TMC from
Hattusha and 5 TMC from Plains City. Backup units will be heading towards this area.

However when I go to the diplomatic screen I notice we have the 'Your troops are within
our borders - they must be withdrawn' option. Just noticed there is a Japanese galley
inside the borders near Yalburt. I guess if I try asking them to withdraw and they
declare then that would be better for us (less WW ? ). I try it and unfortunately they
agree to leave so I have to declare. Sorry if this is prohibited tactics - I just
don't understand these finer points. If I have ****ed up here let me know and I will
replay my turns.

Declare war on Japan

530 AD (8) Start moving stack out of Hattusha towards Izumo. Swords have 1 movement,
3MC 2 movement. Not sure whether I should keep stack intact, or move 3MCs full quota
so that they end up 1 tile ahead of swords. After much deliberation decide on the
latter. Would appreciate some advice on this ! Move some units from central towns
towards front line

IT Japanese Horseman appears near Izumo and attacks our stack . Takes our 3MC down to
last HP but we win and we enter our Golden Age !!.
Riverbend riots - lux -> 10% , Alleppo Aqueduct-> 3MC, Ankuwa Aquedust->3MC,
Greenland MI->Courthouse (may be able to get to 20 spt), Karhayuk worker->worker,

We are now at 653 gold , +143 per turn.

 

[Sir Clive]

Save game (Golden age)

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Not sure whether I should keep stack intact, or move 3MCs full quota
so that they end up 1 tile ahead of swords. After much deliberation decide on the
latter. Would appreciate some advice on this !

I'm guessing this is why you paused, right?

The biggest factor to consider is counterattacks. Since the war just began, you probably want to keep the 3MC's covered by the swords for the defense, at least initially. Once the Japanese are running out of units, then you can let them run free with impunity. The ai is well aware of the defense of 1, and will target those units first, as they are higher win probability.

The 3MC's are a defense of 1, right?

EDIT: Just looked it up, defense of 2. In that case, I would revise my earlier statements and say to send the chariots at a target a bit deeper in their territory, and the swords at Izumo (or whatever city it was)

 

[Bede]

Check happiness in case any towns are likely to riot if I move troops out. Osgiliath Delhi and Samuha look the most likely so I will leave the troops as they are there.

Use taxmen to control contentment in these towns.

However when I go to the diplomatic screen I notice we have the 'Your troops are within our borders - they must be withdrawn' option. Just noticed there is a Japanese galley inside the borders near Yalburt. I guess if I try asking them to withdraw and they declare then that would be better for us (less WW ? ). I try it and unfortunately they agree to leave so I have to declare. Sorry if this is prohibited tactics - I just don't understand these finer points. If I have ****ed up here let me know and I will replay my turns.

Good call. War weariness in Monarchy not an issue, but it's always better for trading partner attitude (not reputation) if the other guy is forced to declare.

Not sure whether I should keep stack intact, or move 3MCs full quota
so that they end up 1 tile ahead of swords. After much deliberation decide on the latter. Would appreciate some advice on this ! Move some units from central towns towards front line.

Swords and chariots both have D2 and chariots have retreat, so separating the stacks is not a problem. Using chariots to spearhead attacks on towns with spears in defense is . Wound the spears down with artillery or swords then finish with chariots. Take advantage of chariot's movement to wreak havoc on roads and improvements and to skirmish with counterattacking stacks.

Remember you are attacking a nation that does not have iron, so their best defender is 2D. Artillery would be nice but is not necessary. Stacks of six should cpature any town.

You need to go to the diplomatic screen and spend some gpt with the neighbors depending on Japan's gold and tech position. If they have enough gold or tech to buy alliances then spend some of our gold (in per turn payments) for something to keep them out of the war. It's not necessary to make alliances.

The GA is going to increase shield production so Hattusas will need some attention to stay on the four turn cycle.

 

[Sir Clive]

You need to go to the diplomatic screen and spend some gpt with the neighbors depending on Japan's gold and tech position. If they have enough gold or tech to buy alliances then spend some of our gold (in per turn payments) for something to keep them out of the war. It's not necessary to make alliances.

Not quite sure I understand this - are you saying that we should be nice to
other civs who are close to us in case they ally with Japan ? If so I suppose
this can only really be Russia since India isn't really a threat.

I didn't want to do a gpt with Russia since I presumed they would be our next target after Japan but I see that they may be inclined to gang up on
us. Russia is currently annoyed with us but they don't have anything to trade.
Should I gift them some gold / tech or is that a

 

[Sir Clive]

I'm guessing this is why you paused, right?

No Sens, I wasn't going to pause due to the war since that had been
discussed beforehand anyway. I paused due to the Golden Age - didn't
want to waste too much gold / shields due to gross mismanagement.

I know I only have 2 out of the 20 turns of GA to manage but don't want
to throw too much down the drain !

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Gifting gold or a tech will gain you nothing, except a slight attitude increase. Won't be enough to keep them off your back tho.

Do they have gold so you could get a loan and repay in gpt?

As Bede said, the real question is: Can Japan afford to buy alliances with other civs?

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I think Bede is saying we should check Japan to see if they have enough gold to buy help and if they do, get into some type of gpt deal with whoever they could get help from to keep them from becoming allies. That's one H*** of a gramatically improper sentence, I hope it makes sense.

Don't worry so much about losing the workers - if the Japanese take 'em, we'll get them back during the war through recaputure or blackmail.

Re GA: How much rush building should I do? Should I just stock the treasury or should i rush units to help in the war?

@ Sir Clive - Don't sweat the war details. Looks like we have plenty of army to kick their a***s.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

@AK - to go back to your previous question, govt choice doesn't affect the ability to trade or extort techs. I guess I'm getting a bit lost by what you mean by "blackmail".

Did I mention Communism also gets veteran spies too?

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

@sesn - by blackmail, I mean extort

spying has never benefited me much - am I doing it wrong? I always seem to get caught, lose lots of gold and end up in a war with a dogpile against me

 

[Sir Clive]

Japan only has 18g so hopefully there should not be a problem.

Going to play the last 2 turns now. I think I am happy with the build orders in all cities - Riverbend was rioting at end of last turn so had to put lux up to 10% . Unfortunately can't switch Riverbend to anything to give happiness as we are only a few turns away from FP and would lose a lot shields.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Sorry about double post.

@ Sir Clive - check out the no research games of Bede and Scout (apologies to Sesn if you're in some of them - I'm too lazy to be accurate). i've been lurking on a few and it has really helped on trading skills. In retrospect, in this game, we could probably have the same position without having done any reseearch

 

[Bede]

Gifting gold or a tech will gain you nothing, except a slight attitude increase. Won't be enough to keep them off your back tho.

Do they have gold so you could get a loan and repay in gpt?

As Bede said, the real question is: Can Japan afford to buy alliances with other civs?

What he (Sesn) said.

Don't make gifts of anything, and since they don't have anything to buy, if they'll make us a loan which we can repay in gpt, they have an incentive not to join in with Japan, and if they do we get to keep the gold.

@AK-I normally wouldn't use cash to rush troops unless something awful happens. Also, the increased shields in the GA will take multiple turns off any builds going on, so cash rushing may not payoff.

What I try to do during a GA is focus on projects (buildings or terrain improvements) that will preserve the GA benefits after the GA ends. In this case since we don't have sheild multiplier buildings available (factories) focus on gold multipliers (courthouses, markets, libraries, universities, ). This is also a good time to mine hills in places that have the required food bonuses available. Turn the science slider to as much as you can afford and still keep the populace content. Now is a good time to try for an SGL. I would also change research from Chivalry to something that will get us to Economics faster (the GL will probably spit out Chivalry for us, anyway, and if it doesn't we can always buy it, if we need it).

Find a place that can pre-build Smith's Trading Company, so the shields will be there when we get to Econ. Example, if we are 100 turns from Econ then a town with 10 uncorrupted shields can use the Palace as a pre-build and have room to spare when we learn Econ.

BTW, this is a great time to have a GA. Technology is starting to get really expensive and the extra gold form ythe GA can really power research. Add in libraries and we can really spit out the techs.

 

[Bede]

@ Sir Clive - check out the no research games of Bede and Scout (apologies to Sesn if you're in some of them - I'm too lazy to be accurate). i've been lurking on a few and it has really helped on trading skills. In retrospect, in this game, we could probably have the same position without having done any reseearch

Concur. But it is also useful to learn how to balance research and trading to get max benefit from both. And when you have the money to spend, might as well spend it at home.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Now is a good time to try for an SGL. I would also change research from Chivalry to something that will get us to Economics faster (the GL will probably spit out Chivalry for us, anyway, and if it doesn't we can always buy it, if we need it).

So you're saying change to theology?

@ Bede - (buying) Stairway to Heaven is reallyinteresting

Find a place that can pre-build Smith's Trading Company, so the shields will be there when we get to Econ

Riverbend after FP?

 

[Sir Clive]

540 AD (9)
Stack of 3MCs attack Izumo. 5 or 6 get smacked down to red by vet spearman and
2 get killed However we capture it eventually. As mentioned before I am
not that comfortable razing so capture city. Swordsman will move in next turn to
(hopefully) quell the 5 resistors.

IT switch Samuha from Harbor to Aqueduct. Found Pompeii near volcano in only gap
in our territory. Set to build worker. Lux can now go back down to 0 (since
we now have gems at Izumo) . Japanes horsemen recapture Izumo (rats -
this is why I hate war - should be able to retake it with swordsmen next turn,
but I obviously screwed up here) . Maya contact us and want an alliance vs the Mongols
and ROP . I decline (hope this was right !!) and they are cool about it .
. Bit wary about building more 3MCs since 1 lousy spearman managed to mortally
wound about half a dozen in the Izumo attack but I will assume that was just a
bit of bad luck .
Silk Forests 3MC->3MC.
OK Corral Trebuchet->3MC.
Iron River MI->3MC
Oasisland 3MC->3MC
Rubble river Courthouse->Granary
Osgiliath Courthouse->Library
Tyranah Granary->Courthouse

Not entirely sure about the last 3 - please feel free to veto !

550 AD (10)
5 swordsman attack Izumo and retake . Lose 2 of them
General worker movement. Move troops towards Japanese front line
There are a few damaged 3MCs sitting in Hattusha which need repair.
Barracks will be completed in Grassy Beach next turn.
May want to switch Hattusha from Library to Barracks as we are a bit light
on Barracks near the front line.

Save game

 

[Bede]

Good start. My old man always told me hit 'em in the jewels first

But now I think you see what I mean about WC's in city assaults.

Looks like Osaka and Shimoneski should be next.