Clockpunk mini alt history development thread

[Shogu]

Why is it on, on default ????

 

[MagnusIlluminus]

To the best of my knowledge (which is limited in this case), it is not on by default. As far as I am aware, the various xxx-punk techs in the tree are all dead-end techs unless you change some variable in an "ini" file manually. Yes, you will still see the "Clockpunk" and other such techs in the tree, but just ignore them, as they don't do anything unless you activate it yourself.

I could be wrong, however, as I really haven't been tracking this, but recent games I've played have had no effect from such techs. If anyone who does know could confirm this, that'd be great.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am currently working on making all the Punk alt-timelines optional mods. Unfortunately this is not currently the case.

I am preparing them now. the status so far

• Technologies wont appear in the tech tree if the module has been disabled. This is achieved by making the technology dependent on the "Embassy" building for the Punk.
• I have moved the Punk resources from the resource folder to the Punk folder they belong to. This is where they should have been put to start with if these modules are supposed to be optional.
• I need to look at Hydro's modules and suggest a change he needs to make to get rid of the XML error below.

Edit: @Hydro you need to remove the following lines from BUILDINGCLASS_FLIGHT_SCHOOL in your transportation folder

				<PrereqOrBuildingClass>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_AERODROME</BuildingClassType>
					<bPrereqBuildingClass>1</bPrereqBuildingClass>
				</PrereqOrBuildingClass>

and add the following to the BuildingInfos file in whatever Punk the Aerodrome is in

		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_FLIGHT_SCHOOL</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_FLIGHT_SCHOOL</Type>
			<PrereqOrBuildingClasses>
				<PrereqOrBuildingClass>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_AERODROME</BuildingClassType>
					<bPrereqBuildingClass>1</bPrereqBuildingClass>
				</PrereqOrBuildingClass>
		</BuildingInfo>

Note anything that is a Punk building after the Aerodrome will also need to be moved. The XML stops at the first error in these lists.

I'll move the resources now on the SVN. Once you have done this I'll retest the changes against the tech changes before committing them.

Edit 2: Note any Punk without an Embassy Building will not show up in the Tech tree eg BioPunk.

Edit 3: Dang! The only way to get these to work as modules and have the tech only appear in game when the module is on is to put the Tech inside the module. Unfortunately the tech tree modders are against this idea. This means that we live with dead end techs that do nothing when the module is off.

Edit 4: Because the Tech and the Resource have the same text eg both called Clockpunk, the Pedia goes to the tech not the resource.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DH

Ok I moved the code for the Aerodrome and Grand Aerodrome. Let me know if there any more errors.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

the Punk's i love they add that spark to the game i really love having and reminds me a little of Multiverse mod by tchristensen

 

[Kreatur]

the punk building are realy cool please don't make extra mods out of it

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

the punk building are realy cool please don't make extra mods out of it

They are already optional mods. That is what they were designed to be. We just forgot to check that they were still optional in the last release and some weren't because of where the XML was. They should be back to fully optional like all the other Alt-Timeline mods.

 

[rightfuture]

the punk building are realy cool please don't make extra mods out of it

Exploring ideas as part of the main(selectable) gameplay is vital to C2C's scope and flavour..
I have to agree completely with Kreatur, it should be part of the core experience. at least up until they are developed to the point of bloat. You have to set ideas and potential standards/goals to aim for, even if you want the ideas as open, and limitless as you want them to evolve to. To truly play C2C the way you want to, you have to include a variety of combinatorial options (and paths). You want to attract these options and players, so they can help contribute. (C2C should be open to far more than the least(and most common) path of resistance(and vision).
The goal is to raise the bar of improvement and options (not so that people are lost in the details, but so that you can play C2C your way (examples):
Thunderbrd's
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=487838
Hydromancerx's,
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12203680&postcount=2
and specifically:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12205543&postcount=5

Ok, so as stated, I'd come back and explain more...
...
This makes leaders much more manipulable and although it may seem like it limits our options with leaders, it really doesn't since we can override any given tag by simply defining that tag on the leader itself. Thus we can get into the micro-definition of any leader as deeply as we want while having some guidelines for them all that are also easily updateable.

As a whole this would make our leader structure much much much more manageable and by limiting ourselves to somewhere around 60 archetypes with well defined personality concepts equating to one trait's personality outlook, we should be able to have fun with mix and matching to redesign our leaders.

But the best thing about it would be that leaders wouldn't have to all be completely redefined overnight. They could be simplified but wouldn't HAVE to be as the current leader definitions would NOT require redefinition, only benefit from any additional definition.

This makes the structure something that can be very gradually worked on which fits in perfectly with the desire to make this a brief stop along the way towards other goals, leaving behind a structure that allows our leaders to be touched up at any time....
...Now additionally, down the road, what I'd LIKE to do is deepen the way these l.(things work).

I've said as much with combinations several times before.)
We need not cater to common expectations for almost everyone, but plan to aim above exceeding everyone's silent hopes.
and give people the option to play it (or not) as they wish. Include the options, and they(the players) will be more likely to try(and explore/help expand upon) them. Leave those options out (and for most people/players) they will probably not even see/know that they exist(can exist).

To keep the alternate eras in is to keep alternate gameplay the way you want it as a major C2C theme. (It is great to have a streamlined and stripped down core, like Rocks2Rockets(C2C Lite), to satisfy minimalists, people with really older machines, and new people who want more of a simple AND/Vanilla Civ IV/K-Mod type experience, but to sacrifice the main idea of expanding vision and depth to achieve that is not a good idea.)
This way the alternate eras/timelines inspire people to fill them out and having ongoing discussions until they get developed. Basic ones like Dark Ages, Post-Apocalyptic, Cybertech/punk, and even Megalythic animals and Steampunk should be part of the core experience(as options). At least most people would agree that they might regularly want to play them as they wish. Some of these should be left off (as default), or for new players(maybe even have a beginning game option to set new player defaults vs. a max experience (all common suggested items) selectable game to see the limits of waht C2C can deliver right now!)
Keeps the spice and flavor in the main game for as long as possible. Also tells people that it will be part of the C2C experience and intended depth.
(More controversial and less popular/specific themed explorations can find life in the mod-mod section.)

Alternate Eras/Timelines are just as important as the Galactic Era for taking C2C to the next level (Even if it will take a long time to add ideas and work out details.)
That is why it should be an ongoing part of the main discussion, to draw ongoing ideas and discussion as it comes, not to leave them sparse until the development is focused.
In my opinion, once alternate Eras/Timelines/and Themes are made modular, then they could be spun off with healthy support and development. You have to have them in the main discussion to have people from the community help develop and discuss them for eventual inclusion(or options). This could also spawn a flurry of content creation, and keep mod-mods from being non-compatible spin-offs, but become plugins that could be combined for pretty much anyone's desired results(higher useability and desirability).

If you don't have ongoing idea collection and implementation discussion, then you won't have worked these things out enough when you need to focus on completing them. When areas are discussed (before development), they are a lot more fleshed out, and anticipated(even evolving). The development appears to be much faster, especially when everyone has been thinking about it and discussing it for a while.

Taking these things out of the main vision of core C2C could be detrimental to Caveman2Cosmos's popularity and new player awareness of how awesome C2C can become!

 

[Hydromancerx]

@rightfuture

It was agreed upon in the beginning before we even added any alt-timeline stuff that it could be turned off but still included in the mod and not as a modmod. I have no problem with people wanting to turn off the alt-time stuff, which is why they were put in their own mod folders. If someone doesn't like them then they can just chnage the modular load code to off so they don't load.

However a game setting of "No Alt-Timeline" was put in that would be even better. That way both sides can be happy without needing to edit the modular loading code.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@rightfuture

It was agreed upon in the beginning before we even added any alt-timeline stuff that it could be turned off but still included in the mod and not as a modmod. I have no problem with people wanting to turn off the alt-time stuff, which is why they were put in their own mod folders. If someone doesn't like them then they can just chnage the modular load code to off so they don't load.

However a game setting of "No Alt-Timeline" was put in that would be even better. That way both sides can be happy without needing to edit the modular loading code.

I didn't want to say as much and let the cat out of the bag before we've proven the method is as functional as I believe it to be by applying it to ls612 and my traits setups BUT I believe I've cracked the BEST way to go about making it possible to now optionalize rather than modularize 'modmod' material.

To make a long story short, soon you'll be able to have just that, a No Alternative Timelines option, or perhaps even a set of options to turn on each individual alternative timeline of a player's choosing at game start. Either way you want to do it, the functionality to do so is not just in development at this time but has proven successful so far!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There is a program/front end around for editing the MLF's using option like interface, but it has to run before you run BtS.

 

[Thunderbrd]

We won't be requiring that