Closest thing to Lib slingshot I've found..

[goodolarchie]

On "Slingshots" Civ V vs IV:
This is kind of a misnomer in V. Liberalism slingshot truly was just that, because you could easily backtrade techs, remaining at tech parity or advanced, even in Deity. Without tech trades in V, the best thing we can do is efficiently use GS, wonders, and social policies to greatly accelerate past the opposition in tech. Therefore, careful choices must be made with regards to all three. I'll offer a "tech rush" synopsis that worked for me on King. Obviously it can be deviated from.. and the goal here is maximum science in minimal time.

Step 1: Tech Pottery > Writing ASAP. This is for two things: scientist specs, and TGL. Your initial social policy shouldn't be a big deal. I chose Tradition > Aristocracy since I was egypt and planned on wonder-whoring. Honor is quite good, even if you don't plan to conquest. I recommend building trading posts, especially on hammer tiles i.e. plains. They will double bonus during Golden ages.

Step 2: Build TGL for Philosophy, and Libraries (you may have a second city at this point, but don't expand too quick). This will open up Research agreements, so get as many of those going as you possibly can afford. Do everything you can to gain the favor of Maritime city states, this food will provide us the means to run Scientists. What you research at this point is up to you, but make sure you research Calendar before the first scientist pops. I built Stonehenge, but only because it was very cheap for me, and got me roughly 2 extra social policies by the end of the game.

Step 3: First scientist will be up, bulb Theology. This will advance you to Medieval era and open up Patronage, which is an excellent tree.

Step 4: backfill your techs, esp. military in case you're DoW'd. Your next bulbs will go to Education, then Acoustics. Oxford can accomplish this too, reasonably cheap. You won't have any competition for building it, so take your time. Acoustics will open up Renn era SP's, if they interest you. The research agreements and science buildings/specs will quickly help you backfill, hopefully one will be Civil Service, which is a great tech at this point. If you want to watch your cities spread like mad, build Ankor Wat. I was getting 3-4 turns pops per tile pop even in newer cities.

Step 5: The rest is pretty straightforward. High population gets you high science in this game. Maritime Allies and food buildings are your friends. I found trade posts + buying favor to be more effective than farms, especially when you rush to Patronage. Having lots of gold adds flexibility to spend as needed too.

According to the "Top Literacy" around 1200 AD I was 13 techs ahead of the top AI (alex), who had 14 cities and seemed to be doing well. The key to this strategy is opening up GS's, Research agreements, TGL and Oxford early for the free techs. Whether this strategy is as good as, say, rushing every AI with horseman and catapults and claiming puppets states is a different story

Sidenotes:
-I don't find the +GPP% bonuses to be very instrumental. Golden ages don't give 100% bonus, and there's no Caste System/Pacifism to abuse how quickly one can make GS's. Keeping your Library staffed with TGL will net you 3 GS's in about 85 turns. That city is essentially your GP farm should be plenty to secure your lead.

-Research agreements are kind of bizarre, and from what I can tell, they never randomly select the tech you're currently researching. That's a good thing. You can also buy resources from a broke, backwards AI to earn and get them into a RA.

-There's too many "free" things in V. The player greatly capitalizes on them to make an effective slingshot, while the AI seems to not use any at all. I hope a patch or mod addresses this.

 

[aryah]

Step 3: First scientist will be up, bulb Theology. This will open up Research agreements,

can you confirm this? manual says philosophy opens research agreements?

 

[goodolarchie]

can you confirm this? manual says philosophy opens research agreements?

Corrected, thanks! Mistakes are bound to happen at 3am

 

[aryah]

Oxford can accomplish this too, reasonably cheap. You won't have any competition for building it at this point, so take your time.

sry, didn't notice this reading it first time. but I think second sentence here also makes little sense - Oxford is a national wonder, so you couldn't have any competition in building it anyhow.

Otherwise, good strategy, when I get a new gpu, this is pretty much what I'm hoping to play, based on theorycrafting at least.

when would you be producing national college?

 

[goodolarchie]

when would you be producing national college?

Ideally before the third (or fourth, if you happened to have great land) city is up. The "all cities must have ____" requirement is rough, I don't think every city needs a library. There's not much of a lull in the build queue after bulbing Philo or Theology. Not a big deal if you can't get it, the 50% helps, but Universities are cheaper and needed for Oxford.

 

[aryah]

Ideally before the third (or fourth, if you happened to have great land) city is up. The "all cities must have ____" requirement is rough, I don't think every city needs a library. There's not much of a lull in the build queue after bulbing Philo or Theology. Not a big deal if you can't get it, the 50% helps, but Universities are cheaper and needed for Oxford.

I think this is incorrect, university is 200 and n college 120 hammers. Either can be bought too according to the manual, though I don't know the price of buying national wonders, its approximate gold/hammer ratios.

For 4 cities, you need 4*200+260=1060 hammers right after getting education, presuming you built libraries everywhere already. and acoustics is 650 beakers. I'm not sure how reasonably cheap that is.

How large were you at the time?

Maybe Oxford might be a way for a smallish civilization to catch up around renaissance, and only then expand. And probably in a smallish civilization, N college at only 120 hammers, is a strong additional boost in your largest city. Of course, the question remains if the additional boost is better than focusing on getting oxford first, given the crowded build queue, you have a point there. And maybe one should use oxford to catch something beefier than acoustics, like sci theory (giving more science), or rifling, after some backfilling, for that 'expansion'

I think I'd like that, playing smallsh and perfectionist until renaissance, then securing myself a continent to win the game with

 

[goodolarchie]

I think this is incorrect, university is 200 and n college 120 hammers. Either can be bought too according to the manual, though I don't know the price of buying national wonders, its approximate gold/hammer ratios.

I'm staring right at Nat'l College in game right now, it's 300 hammers. Egypt + Autocracy does offset the cost however to be roughly the same.

For 4 cities, you need 4*200+260=1060 hammers right after getting education, presuming you built libraries everywhere already. and acoustics is 650 beakers. I'm not sure how reasonably cheap that is.

How large were you at the time?

3 cities. Seems like a good golden number. I've tried Immortal and other civs really box you in. 3 Cities seems like the new 6 cities /shrug. I didn't oxford>acoustics either, I bulbed it. I think I saved oxford for Scientific Theory. If your (3) city populations are high (and they should be), libs + unis in all of them is a good move.

Maybe Oxford might be a way for a smallish civilization to catch up around renaissance, and only then expand. And probably in a smallish civilization, N college at only 120 hammers, is a strong additional boost in your largest city. Of course, the question remains if the additional boost is better than focusing on getting oxford first, given the crowded build queue, you have a point there. And maybe one should use oxford to catch something beefier than acoustics, like sci theory (giving more science), or rifling, after some backfilling, for that 'expansion'

I think I'd like that, playing smallsh and perfectionist until renaissance, then securing myself a continent to win the game with

I think it's just meant as an ace-in-the-hole for high-science civs. The university requirement is pretty rough, but at some point there's a break-even point when you're 3-4 GS's deep. That's why the point of those first couple of GS bulbs is to get your cities to the point where they can sustain and multiply their own science.

People are already using variations of this by teching philosophy and using TGL to bulb CS, but I don't think that will work as well on higher difficulties (TGL will go too soon)

 

[aryah]

I'm staring right at Nat'l College in game right now, it's 300 hammers.

Aha! Then the manual is mistaken - I posted that in the manual errata thread.

I didn't oxford>acoustics either, I bulbed it. I think I saved oxford for Scientific Theory. If your (3) city populations are high (and they should be), libs + unis in all of them is a good move.

Right, that makes sense.

I think it's just meant as an ace-in-the-hole for high-science civs. The university requirement is pretty rough, but at some point there's a break-even point when you're 3-4 GS's deep.

would be an interesting thing to calculate

 

[AlienFromBeyond]

Since you already mention using TGL to grab Philosophy, what about going one further and saving Babylon's Writing GS for Civil Service right after?

 

[alpaca]

Since you already mention using TGL to grab Philosophy, what about going one further and saving Babylon's Writing GS for Civil Service right after?

On the lower difficulty settings (up to Emperor) in the demo I've found that you actually have a decent chance to build the Great Library while you research Philosophy and use the GL directly to unlock Civil Service.

 

[iggymnrr]

On the lower difficulty settings (up to Emperor) in the demo I've found that you actually have a decent chance to build the Great Library while you research Philosophy and use the GL directly to unlock Civil Service.

Hmmm. It seemed to me on king that wonders were going slowly. Anybody else use Babylon's scientist for an academy? I had one on a plains hill.