Clown Car VII: Or "Gulliver's Travels 2: The Witch Hunt Continues"

I predicted, not sure if I posted it here, that DeSantis started his campaign way too early and lost all of his momentum. Lots of push for Youngkin now, could be a dark horse, maybe not. I kind of like Sununu of NH since he’s more of the old Northeastern Republican but without the blue blood of a Romney or (John) Kerry.
 
Sommerswerd said:
This thread should be merged into the Clown Car Thread
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Not least b/c Sommer went to some trouble--completely on his own initiative--to make that thread.:mischief:
 

Chaos Erupts When Republican Candidates Are Asked if They Believe in Climate Change​

There is no scientific dispute on the question, but almost none of the Republican presidential candidates gave a straight answer.

Mike Pence, Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy tried to speak over one another during the first Republican presidential debate on Wednesday.
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Mike Pence, Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy tried to speak over one another during the first Republican presidential debate on Wednesday.Credit...Kenny Holston

By Neil Vigdor
  • Aug. 23, 2023Updated 11:26 p.m. ET

It was an unusual litmus test for a Republican primary debate, one that quickly descended into personal attacks and obfuscation: The candidates were asked whether humans had contributed to climate change.
There is no scientific dispute that the answer is yes, but hardly any of the Republican candidates gave a straight answer. Before they could raise their hands, Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida broke in.
“Look, we’re not schoolchildren,” he said, rejecting the idea of a show-of-hands response. “Let’s have the debate.” The line of questioning from the moderators, Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum, was about the devastating wildfires in Maui and a recent tropical storm that caused flooding in Southern California. They mentioned rising ocean temperatures and played a clip from a young conservative, who asked how the Republicans running for president could assuage young people’s concerns about climate change.

Mr. DeSantis, a distant second in the polls to former President Donald J. Trump, who skipped the debate, deflected and criticized President Biden’s response to the wildfires in Hawaii.

Vivek Ramaswamy, the millionaire entrepreneur whose campaign has dabbled in conspiracy theories, seized on the moment to deny the scientific consensus on climate change. “Let us be honest as Republicans — I’m the only person on the stage who isn’t bought and paid for, so I can say this — that climate change is a hoax,” he said. Mr. Ramaswamy added, “And so the reality is more people are dying of bad climate change policies than they are of actual climate change.”

Chris Christie, the former New Jersey governor, admonished Mr. Ramaswamy, whom he sparred with frequently throughout the night. “I’ve had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like ChatGPT,” Mr. Christie said, referring to the artificial intelligence chatbot. He then compared Mr. Ramaswamy’s frequent mentions of his skinny frame and his “odd” last name to the rhetoric former President Barack Obama used when he first vaulted onto the national political stage. “And I’m afraid we’re dealing with the same type of amateur,” he said.

Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor and United Nations ambassador under Mr. Trump, sought to reset the conversation.
“Is climate change real?” she said. “Yes, it is. But if you want to go and really change the environment, then we need to start telling China and India that they have to lower their emissions.”
 
It's weird. I can't decide which is worse: the "it's real, but we should totes do nothing until other countries become leaders on this issue" take as opposed to the "it's a hoax!! omgburgers!" take.

I mean, both are stupid, but I guess: I can't decide which one is more absurd? Just as a discussion point I suppose.
 
We actually can't stop it on our own. And she didn't say we should totes do nothing, unless you have a different quote.
 
Farm Boy said:
We actually can't stop it on our own.
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You can stop your outsized contribution on your own.

In a way I think it is a good thing they were all too afraid to even state their position, it shows they know they are vulnerable.
 
The more people experience climate change directly in their life, be it through wildfire, water scarcity, floodings or invasive species, the more they are likely to turn away from these politicians. The best way for the Republicans to get their vote is to not mention the Climate Crisis at all, so that's why they are ha-humming about it. In this regard, what interests me is not what they are saying, but what they are doing. But of course all of them are unacceptable in these times where we need to act as humanity.
 
In the most inflammatory exchange, Trump seemed to indulge a suggestion from Carlson that Trump’s political opponents might try to end his life.

“They’re savage animals. They are people that are sick. Really sick. You have great people in the Democrat Party, you have great people that are Democrats,” Trump said. “But I’ve seen what they do, I’ve seen the lengths that they go to.”

The incendiary comment comes as Trump has venerated those charged with crimes for the deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol and downplayed the violence that day. He repeated his praise in the interview.

“People in that crowd said it was the most beautiful day they’ve ever experienced. There was love in that crowd. There was love and unity,” Trump said of the supporters he addressed on the morning of Jan. 6, before they marched to the Capitol.
“I have never seen such spirit and such passion and such love. And I’ve also never seen, simultaneously, and from the same people, such hatred of what they’ve done to our country.”
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Trump goed coo-coo in lala-land.
 
Bird's article doesn't even give the worst quote on the topic:

“This isn’t that complicated guys, unlock American energy, drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear,” Ramaswamy said--the "burn coal" being his deliberate oneupsmanship over a mere "drill, baby, drill."
 
Birdjaguar said:
Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor and United Nations ambassador under Mr. Trump, sought to reset the conversation.
“Is climate change real?” she said. “Yes, it is. But if you want to go and really change the environment, then we need to start telling China and India that they have to lower their emissions.”
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Farm Boy said:
We actually can't stop it on our own. And she didn't say we should totes do nothing, unless you have a different quote.
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I guess she did say we should tell China & India to go be leaders on the issue, then we'd presumably(?) do something. So, sure... not technically do nothing, just go yell at clouds I suppose.
 
No, that's not how you read that either. But ebonics, something something, hard to understand?

You've got a GOP candidate(who will lose), acknowledging climate change, on stage, to R primary voters... also acknowledging America's limits and the longest term problems on the issue... no mention of "doing nothing about our outsized contribution" in a multipolar world, and you guys have a problem with that being low?

:lol::lol:

Well, just so you know who your shady ******s are. Unless you got a different quote?
 
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Farm Boy said:
No, that's not how you read that either. But ebonics, something something, hard to understand?
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If you think Haley as President would take any action whatever on climate change I have a bridge to sell you.

She will probably take measures that accelerate climate change and brand them as solutions to climate change, I'll give you that.
 
Shady shady.
 
Farm Boy said:
Shady shady.
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If you want to support Haley or any other GOP candidate do so, I don't mind, but you don't have to lie to yourself or others about what that support entails. The GOP is the party for people who believe in accelerating or at best doing nothing about climate change. The Democrats are the party for people who believe in taking some action even if it's pathetically insufficient action.

I know this cuts against the whole "both sides are bad mmkay" thing but them's the facts
 
No, I want you to come up with a quote that doesn't say exactly the opposite of what's being argued. The audience talked to matters for the tone used, which is utterly confusing often enough, it would seem. Pretty basic, but not political doublespeak, so it might be out of range for this... community of souls? At least when it pertains to shady ******s.
 
Farm Boy said:
No, I want you to come up with a quote that doesn't say exactly the opposite of what's being argued.
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www.nytimes.com

Nikki Haley, Republican Presidential Candidate, on the Issues

As the Republican presidential candidates barrel toward their first debate under the shadow of a front-runner facing dozens of felony charges, The New York Times examined their stances on eight key issues.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

A spokesman for her campaign said she would withdraw from the Paris Agreement again, lift the Biden administration’s restrictions on oil and gas production, eliminate subsidies for renewable energy, and cancel proposed regulations on power plants and vehicle emissions.
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But she said it's real and deflected blame to India and China, that means she's serious bro, trust me bro
 
That's better. Still not a quote by her, but the presidential campaign is just getting underway. Anything said on a national stage instead of by bureaucrats in party bowels? We might yet get as good as Biden on Tough on Crime.

I'm not going to lie, though, I read what ya'll misquoted to make a point. That's going to stick longer than Haley's presidential campaign loss. It should. Sort of like the takeaway of using FDR's programs on trade, undone by Congress like FDR and his SCOTUS. Damn co-equal branches. That conversation stuck too.
 
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