@Ralph: peace treaty with Darius and Gandhi is a nice idea... but I can't confirm OB is enough for having it... also I agree everything you said about marble city first and then Moscou.
I agree with Stuge, if the hill ciy does already have 60% cultural defence we'd probably need 3 attackers to every defender, far too expensive for a non capital city right now. I'd be inclined to focus on the horse city, then Moscow. In a way though I think I'd prefer it if Cathy could still build chariots, it would mean less archers, and with spears to defend they shouldn't be a problem, but that doesn't really fit in with the geography, we need to take at least one of those border cities for Moscow to be useful.
Definitely agree with Aesthetics as the next tech, Darius is one of the quicker AIs anyway, and with Gandhi around the tech rate might be quite fast.
OB isn't enough to generate a peace treaty, you can still declare war straight away. Just to be sure I checked in my current game and it worked.
I made a typo earlier, It's 40% for hill city (second cultural border expansion has happened already).
So Moscou should be at 40% too and the others at 20%.
IHT
Switch to Aesthetics
Sign OB with Darius, Gandhi and Cathy + Start scouting...
Turn 96 for some reason its the unloved religion of Judaism that spreads to us which no one else has adopted...
Turn 98 Catherine completes the great wall
And at turn 103 time to handover
You can see her troops when scouted so Moscow and Novgorod are more current that the other two cities. Note she had a settler + galley in Moscow so this should hopefully have sailed reducing her defenders and making it a good time to strike?
Note she has no metal so we dont need to worry about a counter attack force once we have pillaged her horses. This to me means we can go slightly slower versus st petes if it is contained and concentrate on Novgorod and Moscow
i) 1 Axe + 1 Spear to contain St Petersburg and then the axe moving from our capital + 1 being built in Gondar reinforce with a view to taking.
ii) Balance of 9 axes + spears follow red route.
The whip is available in both cities and Gondar has a partially built spear at the back of its queue for emergency whip purposes if required. Capital has nearly finished a Spear for garrison duty versus her wandering chariot as I would avoid shrinking cities as we need them producing libraries post cathy
Good job Ralph, I'm surprised Cathy only has one archer in St. Petersburg, but at least that makes her easy to contain there. Are we planning to keep any of the cities apart from Moscow? I'd be inclined to raze Novgorod, and rebuild it on the river later, but would that just leave Darius more room to expand into?
Hum... I am not sure razing Novgorod is a good idea... That means more hammers in settlers and we are creative so any city with some food can quickly contribute to our empire (whip library and run scientists). +it has marble (Great Lib anyone?)
Looking good, Ralph. Poor Cathy. Who am I kidding, she deserves it, she's ruined my game more than once.
edit: Oh right, the game. I guess I'm for keeping Nov, but waving goodbye would make finishing Cathy a little easier. I'm all for the GL if we've got the marble handy, and I suppose it could even go into Moscow,which has a few trees handy.
Hum... I am not sure razing Novgorod is a good idea... That means more hammers in settlers and we are creative so any city with some food can quickly contribute to our empire (whip library and run scientists). +it has marble (Great Lib anyone?)
That was the first city I scouted so information is most out of date there plus as she is in slavery and has sufficient population each city will also gain a defender very quickly post the war declaration from whipping.
I would keep Novgorod as our two current citieis need to grow and build libraries so don't have the time for a settler and its in an OK place.
I must confess chopping in the GL in Moscow feesl like a good plan to me once we get Literature. Hopefully with Aestehtics adn a bit of self research if required we will be able to trade for Maths making the chops that much better..
Attacking
The two CG1 Archers in Moscow will take 2 suicides a 1 taker to deal with+
The two Normal Archers probably need 3 suicides between them + 2 takers.
== Meaning you are looking at potentially suiciding 7 Axes before we start killing Archers so we definitely need to keep the Containing force at St pete's to a minimum (1 spear plus the already built axes currently moving into position?) allowing us 10 Axes + 2 Spearmen to go Novgorod -> Moscow.
A unit can pop in and have a look at StP's defences this turn (the stack's dots are white AFAIK), which might give us some idea whether she has a suprise for us there.
Good attack analysis, Ralph. Surely 10 axes with spear support is enough??!!
Oops, so I played without posting a got it. My apologies.
A thousand axes and two hundred spears attacked Novgorod, nine hundred axes and a hundred spears marched on to Moscow. They pillaged the pastures of the Russian steeds before laying siege to the great city, joining forces with a handful of troops that had marched past St. Petersburg. The detachment, though lacking in numbers, had slaughtered a group of Russian archers in the fields of corn east of Moscow, and had cut the road leading to St. Petersburg.
At Moscow, there were two attackers for each defender, but the latter had a grim determination to die where they stood rather than let the enemy into their revered city.
The battle was long, taking a horrible toll on both sides. It looked like the city would hold, until the last charge, numbering only some hundreds but scarred and hardened veterans all, finally broke the defences. A millenia later the legends would say that they got into the city by climbing over a pile of a thousand corpses resting against the city walls.
So, we now control Novgorod and Moscow. Our army has been cut down to size in the process. We have four axes in Moscow (two CR3, two CR2) and a spear in Novgorod.
The economy hasn't tanked completely, we can run 50% science with a 1 gpt defict.
Cathy has a chariot in the jungle east of Aksum. It came from the south, moved past Aksum without even trying to pillage anything and has been stuck in the jungle for some turns now. I guess the charioteers found some nice berries or mushrooms or something.
AI silliness of the week: A GP was born in St. Pete and Cathy moved him into Moscow so that the unit was in the city when we took it. On the bright side, there's a settled GG in Moscow.
The game seems to be going alright too, I assume the plan now is to wander over to St. Petersburg and then to Rostov (which looks like it might be a decent location for the Maoi Statues). With our tech rate not collapsing yet would people say it's worth keeping the other two cities?
If Raskalnikov's not around I'll take the next turn set, probably playing later tonight.
Well I didn't have any luck with taking any cities, Cathy finished an Archer in St. Petersburg at the end of the first turn, and moved 2 more in from the border, and this is what's currently there:
I'm expecting the Galley to run off somewhere with the Settler at some point, though it hasn't happened yet. She's taken up that peculiar AI habit of suiciding units agains cities for no reason, 2 Archers were sent to Gondar separately, when there was an Axe in the city, unfortunately the second time she actually won, with a chance of 1.3%. We also have a GG that's just been born, I was going to settle him in Aksum (I normally wait for my second one to make a Medic 3 unit), but thought I'd wait to see what everyone else thinks first. Darius is one turn from finishing Alphabet too.
We now have the 4 city raiders in Moscow, with a defender there, the Axe/Spear stack by St. Petersburg, an Axe healing in Gondar, and another one on the way. Not the most productive set of turns, I seemed to spend too long preparing things, rather than actually doing anything, though I suppose that's better than losing a whole stack trying to take a city without enough numbers.
Spoiler:
1 - 1125 BC - Set Axes to heal in Moscow
3 - 1075 BC - Confucianism FIDL
4 - 1050 BC - Axe --> Axe in Aksum
5 - 1025 BC - IBT Axe beat Archer defending Gondar, GG born in Aksum
6 - 1000 BC - IBT: Axe loses to Archer defending Gondar
St. Petersburg is living up to it's historical reputation.
We only had 4 promoted axes, with a few heading west from the core, which wasn't enough for a 40% hill city, imo. The 4 axes in Moscow headed west and sacked Rostov (which I thought hard about keeping) before regrouping and heading back to StP. Darius soon resettled the site, and he'll be battling culture there for a longtime, ie until we take it. 2 pillage teams took out the corn and cows to stop the flow of whipped archers in StP.
Meanwhile, it's been all production, with conquest deficit research. We need to finish this damn war so we can get back on track. To that end, about 10 axes and 2 spears (The GG is now a spear medic, and needs one xp to get the +1 movement point) are eyeing off the city, and fingers crossed should be successful next turn against 4 archers. Also, the core cities are finally on libraries, and soon after should get a settler or 2 out to block out Darius in the south. We are in desperate need of , another reason to waste those axes.
It is a hindu love fest, and we aren't invited, yet. Darius, tho, has alpha and is working on currency, so our aesthetics should do fine. No idea on Gandhi yet, of course, as he is still without alpha. Darius actually demanded our spare corn, which I have him, so remember to cancel it and replace it with gpt when his currency comes in.
Question for next TS, do we join the hindu bloc after taking StP?
Spoilerlog :
Turn 124/750 (900 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:06:18] Novgorod begins: Spearman (52 turns) Sweetacshon: Novgorod switched to spear, which will be whipped next turn for a garrison, while the spear there can take the GG for a medic.
Other Player Actions: State Religion Change: Catherine (Russia) from 'Judaism' to 'Hinduism' Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Catherine (Russia) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Turn 125/750 (875 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:11:21] Sweetacshon: Darius got alpha and is ready to trade. We, of course, have nothing for him yet. Sweetacshon: Whip the spear in Novgorod, overflow to library. After vacating the immediate tiles around StP, the settler +escort moves out, but not in the galley.
After End Turn: The whip was applied in Novgorod Gondar finishes: Axeman Novgorod finishes: Spearman
Turn 126/750 (850 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:12:45] Gondar begins: Axeman (7 turns) Sweetacshon: The spear/axe bottlers have moved to the corn to starve off StP. The settler loses it's nerve and suicides by trying to return to StP by itself! Spearman promoted: Combat I While attacking in Russian territory at St. Petersburg, Spearman (4.00/4) defeats Russian Settler (Prob Victory: 0.7%) A Farm near St. Petersburg was destroyed by Ethiopian Axeman Sweetacshon: Meanwhile at Rostov, we have fairly good odds. While attacking in Russian territory at Rostov, Axeman (2.00/5) defeats Russian Archer (Prob Victory: 30.6%) While attacking in Russian territory at Rostov, Axeman 2 (Gondar) loses to Russian Archer (1.11/3) (Prob Victory: 67.2%) While attacking in Russian territory at Rostov, Axeman 4 (Aksum) (4.25/5) defeats Russian Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Hinduism has spread: Rostov Captured Rostov (Catherine) Razed Rostov Hinduism has been removed: Rostov Rostov lost
After End Turn: Aksum finishes: Axeman Novgorod finishes: Library
Other Player Actions: State Religion Change: Darius I (Persia) from 'no State Religion' to 'Hinduism'
Turn 127/750 (825 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:15:32] Aksum begins: Axeman (4 turns) Novgorod begins: Axeman (13 turns) A Road near St. Petersburg was destroyed by Ethiopian Axeman Axeman promoted: City Raider III While attacking in the wild near Moscow, Axeman 3 (Gondar) (5.00/5) defeats Russian Worker (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Sweetacshon: Nabbed another 2 workers from the ruins of Rostov, which in addition to the "converted" settler, make quite a good worker haul.
Turn 128/750 (800 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:17:17] Axeman promoted: Combat I While attacking in Russian territory at St. Petersburg, Axeman (2.30/5) defeats Russian Archer (Prob Victory: 64.8%) Belisarius (Spearman) promoted: Lead by Warlord Belisarius (Spearman) promoted: Medic II Belisarius (Spearman) promoted: Medic III While attacking in Ethiopian territory at Moscow, Axeman 4 (Aksum) (4.25/5) defeats Russian Worker (Prob Victory: 64.8%) A Pasture near St. Petersburg was destroyed by Ethiopian Axeman Moscow begins: Axeman (52 turns)
After End Turn: The whip was applied in Moscow Moscow grows to size 3 Moscow finishes: Library
Turn 129/750 (775 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:21:20] A Cottage was built near Novgorod A Road near St. Petersburg was destroyed by Ethiopian Axeman
After End Turn: Aksum finishes: Axeman
Turn 130/750 (750 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:23:06] Aksum begins: Axeman (4 turns) A Pasture was built near Novgorod
After End Turn: Novgorod grows to size 3
Turn 131/750 (725 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:25:42] Axeman promoted: Combat II
After End Turn: Aksum finishes: Axeman Gondar grows to size 5 Gondar finishes: Axeman
Other Player Actions: While defending in Ethiopian territory at Gondar, Axeman 8 (Aksum) (4.35/5) defeats Russian Archer (Prob Victory: 99.0%) While defending in Ethiopian territory at Gondar, Axeman 11 (Gondar) (3.05/5) defeats Russian Archer (Prob Victory: 99.0%) Attitude Change: Catherine (Russia) towards Darius I (Persia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Catherine (Russia) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Turn 133/750 (675 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:42:11] Sweetacshon: Cathy suicides another 2 archers on Gondar's axes. Aksum begins: Library (7 turns) Gondar begins: Library (9 turns) Axeman 8 (Aksum) (Axeman) promoted: City Raider I Axeman 11 (Gondar) (Axeman) promoted: City Raider I
After End Turn: A Hamlet was built near Aksum
Turn 134/750 (650 BC) [10-Nov-2008 15:43:50] A Cottage was built near Moscow
It is a hindu love fest, and we aren't invited, yet. Darius, tho, has alpha and is working on currency, so our aesthetics should do fine. No idea on Gandhi yet, of course, as he is still without alpha. Darius actually demanded our spare corn, which I have him, so remember to cancel it and replace it with gpt when his currency comes in.
Question for next TS, do we join the hindu bloc after taking StP?
I'd say yes, it should help keep things peaceful while we rebuild a bit, and we'll need to be able to trade for some luxuries anyway. Once Aesthetics is finished are we still going to try for the GL, or will it be a bit late by now, assuming the other continent isn't full of warmongers?
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Who am I kidding, she deserves it, she's ruined my game more than once.
Surely 10 axes with spear support is enough??!!
On the bright side, there's a settled GG in Moscow.
.
. We also have a GG that's just been born, I was going to settle him in Aksum (I normally wait for my second one to make a Medic 3 unit), but thought I'd wait to see what everyone else thinks first. Darius is one turn from finishing Alphabet too.
