Coastal Cities

[Ziad]

A few months ago I created a thread regarding possible coastal city buffs based on community opinions from various social media platforms.

Well our suggestions have been answered!

• Great Admiral actives now include civil benefits such as gold, luxuries, and trade routes.
• Lighthouses provide +2 Housing if placed adjacent to City Center
• Fisheries provide +0.5 Housing
• Fishing Boats provide +1 Production at Colonialism
• Veterancy (Military Training Civic) now includes Harbors and its buildings
• Shipyard now provides +1 Production to unimproved tiles
• Campus gets +2 Science per adjacent Reef
• Mausoleum of Halicarnassus provides +1 Culture, Faith, and Science in that city (instead of additional GA active)

In my opinion these buffs are substantial. They shore up the major weaknesses of coastal cities, namely potential Housing and Production scaling. They also make Harbors arguably the most potent base district in the game.

Fisheries are now Farms with gold, but you still wont look to improve a coastal tile immediately to make use of the bonus production from Shipyards. Fishing Boats, already the most common improvement near coast, are now even better.

The science adjacency has the most immediately visible impact as one issue with coastal cities in general is the difficulty in finding good adjacencies for Campuses, particularly in islands. Reefs are very common, so Campuses are now potentially a lot stronger.

Great Admirals having civil benefits is also massive. This will shore up the relative disadvantage compared to Commercial Hubs, at least til you can afford to build both.

Military cards in general are the most situational, so slotting the Veterancy card can provide substantial return of investment for little cost, especially in peace.

Frankly I thought a few buffs would be necessary after land cities got disproportionately boosted but these changes are massive. Coastal play just got a lot stronger.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Victoria]

A hurricanne comes in and wipes out your fisheries and harbour and you are left with a couple of mines late game and so still have ridiculous times for district renewal. The veterancy card helps a bit but it’s still ...
Now we have silly production until a hurricane hits then it’s ...
GA’s were fine IMO, similar to GG’s, not sure why people were whining, especially as the mausoleum doubled em.
Flabbergasted they missed the point.
The housing is welcome regardless of form and timing so should not grumble
Adjacency sure, made perfect sense that if some hot holes could, so could some cool coral.
Just walking around dazed and unhappy atm, not only did they miss but they overshot in a crazy way.

 

[Ziad]

Yea disaster recovery is still an issue. Maybr it'll be part of patch notes

 

[Xandinho]

A hurricanne comes in and wipes out your fisheries and harbour and you are left with a couple of mines late game and so still have ridiculous times for district renewal. The veterancy card helps a bit but it’s still ...
Now we have silly production until a hurricane hits then it’s ...

In my games, hurricanes have never been big problems, they rarely happen and when they do they just take some damage from the ships. The only natural disasters I really suffer are floods and tornadoes, and drought too, though they are a bit rare.

About the topic, what I liked the most were changes in the great admirals, they are like great people I care less about, now I will can think about them in my games.

 

[DWilson]

Hurricanes and sandstorms are probably the most destructive to my cities, on average, with volcanoes not too far behind.

I tend to have more usable tiles in my desert and volcano cities, so the impact doesn't tend to sting as much as my largely coastal hurricane plagued ones.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Did it mention if shipyard retains its previous ability as well?

 

[Victoria]

Nope, no mention

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Nope, no mention

Seems like it's probably usually a tad worse if not

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

• Shipyard now provides +1 Production to unimproved tiles

As it was mentioned, it was to unimproved coastal tiles. So ocean tiles remain poor?

 

[qadams]

I don't think I've ever had a city struck by a hurricane. Droughts, sandstorms, floods, blizzards, tornadoes, volcanoes — seen plenty of damage from those, but never a hurricane. Just lucky I guess.

 

[Victoria]

As it was mentioned, it was to unimproved coastal tiles. So ocean tiles remain poor?

We did not say that, I think we ( @SammyKhalifa and I) agree that those that aggressively use shipyard adjacency will suffer a tad. Fisheries +1... wonder if they dropped/changed the Liang +1

 

[Caprikel]

If you think shipyards will only provide the production to sea tiles then by that logic Fisheries now provide only +0.5 housing and nothing else. I'm going to continue to assume that these are additional bonuses, not replacements.

Edit: Also to add to this, in the video he specifically said "We've also added more bonuses to the buildings coastal cities benefited from". I think that should fully clarify things.

A few months ago I created a thread regarding possible coastal city buffs based on community opinions from various social media platforms.

Well our suggestions have been answered!

• Great Admiral actives now include civil benefits such as gold, luxuries, and trade routes.
• Harbors provide +2 Housing if placed adjacent to City Center
• Fisheries provide +0.5 Housing
• Fishing Boats provide +1 Production at Colonialism
• Veterancy (Military Training Civic) now includes Harbors and its buildings
• Shipyard now provides +1 Production to unimproved tiles
• Campus gets +2 Science per adjacent Reef
• Mausoleum of Halicarnassus provides +1 Culture, Faith, and Science in that city (instead of additional GA active)

In my opinion these buffs are substantial. They shore up the major weaknesses of coastal cities, namely potential Housing and Production scaling. They also make Harbors arguably the most potent base district in the game.

Fisheries are now Farms with gold, but you still wont look to improve a coastal tile immediately to make use of the bonus production from Shipyards. Fishing Boats, already the most common improvement near coast, are now even better.

The science adjacency has the most immediately visible impact as one issue with coastal cities in general is the difficulty in finding good adjacencies for Campuses, particularly in islands. Reefs are very common, so Campuses are now potentially a lot stronger.

Great Admirals having civil benefits is also massive. This will shore up the relative disadvantage compared to Commercial Hubs, at least til you can afford to build both.

Military cards in general are the most situational, so slotting the Veterancy card can provide substantial return of investment for little cost, especially in peace.

Frankly I thought a few buffs would be necessary after land cities got disproportionately boosted but these changes are massive. Coastal play just got a lot stronger.

What are your thoughts?

Also this might be a minor nitpick, but it was Lighthouses that add the +2 housing if adjacent to the city center. Assuming that this doesn't replace the current +1 housing from lighthouses, this would mean lighthouses given +3 housing to a city with the harbor adjacent to the city center.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

We did not say that, I think we ( @SammyKhalifa and I) agree that those that aggressively use shipyard adjacency will suffer a tad. Fisheries +1... wonder if they dropped/changed the Liang +1

Nor did I imply that... Just was noticing it for myself and for others who didn't see that at first sight. I wonder whether a change to Auckland bonus will occur to make ocean tiles a bit better.

 

[Victoria]

I'm going to continue to assume that these are additional bonuses, not replacements.

we need to be careful as they have either given the mausoleum engineers +2 charges or dropped admirals from it.
@Ziad I think you got the mausoleum a tad wrong wrt that city rather than tiles but I may have misunderstood.

 

[Caprikel]

we need to be careful as they have either given the mausoleum engineers +2 charges or dropped admirals from it.
@Ziad I think you got the mausoleum a tad wrong wrt that city rather than tiles but I may have misunderstood.

I think in this situation they specifically gave the full ability of the Mausoleum to clarify that they were removing the additional admiral charges.
As for the Harbor buildings and fisheries, putting the full abilities would be redundant, so only listing the additions makes sense.

 

[shaglio]

@Ziad I think you got the mausoleum a tad wrong wrt that city rather than tiles but I may have misunderstood.

I certainly hope he got it wrong. +1 Culture, Faith, and Science to the city is extremely mediocre for a Wonder. But I haven't watched the video yet.

 

[kryat]

Just to add to the population statistics: I do not remember the last time my cities were hit by hurricane... and I’m a very coastal heavy player with disasters usually set to 3. I see sandstorms, flooding, and blizzards most commonly, then volcanoes, then hurricanes.

They likely changed the admirals to better reflect the economic/militaristic nature of harbors. Encampments are pure military while harbors ultimately fulfill both purposes. Therefore, admirals (many of whom are really secretly explorers and navigators) should be different than generals.

 

[steveg700]

A hurricanne comes in and wipes out your fisheries and harbour and you are left with a couple of mines late game and so still have ridiculous times for district renewal. Now we have silly production until a hurricane hits then it’s ...

Downright disastrous, eh? The sea, she be a beautiful mistress, aye, but also a cruel one as well, arrrh!

The veterancy card helps a bit but it’s still ...
GA’s were fine IMO, similar to GG’s, not sure why people were whining, especially as the mausoleum doubled em.
Flabbergasted they missed the point.

If enough people whined about something, maybe they weren't missing the point. An admiral was just not as useful as a merchant. It's the fallout of having the harbor be weird hybrid analogue to both encampment and commercial hub. So, now admirals get to be military/commerce hybrids.

I'm perhaps the sole person who thinks we could just have two marine districts, one naval and one commercial, but it would resolve this dichotomy.

The housing is welcome regardless of form and timing so should not grumble
Adjacency sure, made perfect sense that if some hot holes could, so could some cool coral.
Just walking around dazed and unhappy atm, not only did they miss but they overshot in a crazy way.

At the end of the day, the true offending villain of the Civ VI map would be mountains. These "dead tiles" are just too wildly beneficial for multiple stratagems, and that was even before I realized the lunacy of tunnels allowing teleportation to any other tunnel in a mountain range. Coastal tiles being a (distant) runner-up for campus adjacency bonuses should draw out some new appreciation.

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah, I rarely have seen hurricanes. I've definitely had to rebuild much more often due to volcanoes or flooding, although obviously Harbors kind of have to be in the water so not like you can just plan them on different tiles.

As for the bonuses, I'm still not sure on the lighthouse whether that's +2 housing on top of its current +1, or instead (so maybe +1 housing/+2 if next to city centre). But overall, with the Fisheries adding housing combined with the lighthouse bonus, it means that a coastal city isn't really any behind a city on a river or a lake for housing. Veterancy will definitely be useful when new harbor buildings come into play to help develop cities more. The extra production for unimproved tiles doesn't really make a huge diff to me - it's maybe a couple production for some reefs, since a 2/1/1/ tile I'd rarely work anyways.

Fishing boat bonus at Colonialism will definitely help, even again if it's just a few production, that plus Veterancy will mean those shipyards will get up to speed just a hare faster.

Campus bonus adjacent to reefs, though, is a small bonus with potentially massive implications. Now, it turns that dinky little island with a couple tiles into a potential science haven, since even just one reef tile and a triangle with the harbor and city-centre now gives you the +3 campus. Too often I've struggled to settle islands since there's not much adjacency value to districts if it's all water around them, this will definitely make them way more useful.

 

[Ziad]

i think the shipyard adjacency remains. They just listed an additional bonus.