Coastal Starts

[happysheep]

Does anyone know of a non-cooked start (not necessarily coastal) with a possible city location that would get you like a lot of whales? (not necessarily the cap)
I have already spent about an hour searching for such a map around civfanatics, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Major Tom]

Average turn is very different from "safe" turn.

I'm not sure where the T74 figure comes from (possibly some really useful thread I missed, in which case someone please pass me the link). I do remember that about a year ago I ran a handful of quick tests on standard fractal maps for wonder timings on Monarch and Deity. The big thing that stuck out to me was the wide range of turns wonders can go. Deity GLH went anywhere from turn 46 to 90 (mean of 76), Pyramids went anywhere from turn 60 to 121+ (I stopped the trial at 120, and in one of the five games Pyramids was still not built at that point).

About range; The results I got (link in post below by @drewisfat ) had a standard deviation of 11 turns. It means that with a mean of 74 turns, the range will be 63-85 turns with a 68% probability. This assumes a normaldistribution.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/wonderdates.656787
You'll notice mids actually goes earlier than GLh on deity. Would love a sample size of ~100 but with 20 games the averages should be within a turn or two of their true value.

I might one day add more data to increase samples, but doubt it would change much. However, interesting may be to show the actual distribution in a histogram. Perhaps I do that too some day. Is the tails fat? Is the distribution flat or concentrated around the mean? One could make hypothesis about distribution and range based on number of IND leaders and/or starting with appropriate tech etc etc.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

A coastal isolation start that an AI got. Not me. Worldbuilder screenshot. Immortal difficulty.

Spoiler :

If you got this start, what would you do? I have no idea what to do.

 

[Nick723]

Tough island!

I think the start is pretty clear...with fishing and mining it’s worker and straight to BW.

Tough commerce situation but the saving grace here is the marble - go the aesthetics line and chop / whip into wonders as your commerce source. Some good high hammer tiles as well.

Of course happiness is terrible as well, but I’m not sure you can afford to go monarchy here too you might just accept it. Eg. Eastern city can work sheep, iron and 2 scientists.

 

[coanda]

One of the rare Rome-with-iron games where the right answer is not "make more praetorians."

 

[pi-r8]

A coastal isolation start that an AI got. Not me. Worldbuilder screenshot. Immortal difficulty.

Spoiler :

View attachment 621075

If you got this start, what would you do? I have no idea what to do.

can you post the save or WB file? I want to take a stab at it.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

No, sorry, I deleted it and from the recycle bin. I only meant to ask how to start.

 

[pi-r8]

No, sorry, I deleted it and from the recycle bin. I only meant to ask how to start.

Ah OK. Well, I was thinking that with fishing tech + coastal fish, and a plains forest hill, it's better to start with a workboat. But I'd have to check and compare that to the worker-BW path.

Either way it's a really tough start with such limited and low-food land. You've got marble, so you can go for parthenon/sistine chapel and a cultural victory, just pump out lots of artists. Or- and this is only something you can know from seeing the map spoiled- it's technically possible to reach the other islands pre-astronomy, by planting a city on the edge and getting its culture up to 5000, using an artist bomb (or two?).

 

[elmurcis]

Unless I'm missing something, Culture won't work here to "get over" - 2 tiles away from shoreline (Ocean with commerce on it) is all one can get.

 

[pi-r8]

Unless I'm missing something, Culture won't work here to "get over" - 2 tiles away from shoreline (Ocean with commerce on it) is all one can get.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you can send a galley anywhere that you have culture.

 

[konata_LS]

A coastal isolation start that an AI got. Not me. Worldbuilder screenshot. Immortal difficulty.

Spoiler :

View attachment 621075

If you got this start, what would you do? I have no idea what to do.

This island look really tough. Poor land and no happy resource at all.

After BW, will people tech AH in this case ? The only plain cow is not appealing, but two grassland sheep with pasture are two 5 tiles. OTOH, AH is still expensive for a civ who starts without Agri or Hunt.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

@drewisfat

Standard settings on Fractal. I did not change sea level or number of AIs. Even worse starts are possible.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

A coastal isolation start that an AI got. Not me. Worldbuilder screenshot. Immortal difficulty.

Spoiler :

View attachment 621075

If you got this start, what would you do? I have no idea what to do.

I don't think it'd be terrible --

Tech Open: (Wait 5 turns), Hunting, AH, BW,

1. Path A: Writing, Wheel, Pottery, Masonry, Myst --> Monarchy (Failgold options)
2. Path B; Wheel, Pottery, Masonry, Myst --> Monarchy (Failgold options), COL

Build Open: Workboat on max hammers - then worker. 4 cities, Capital is mega-sized. Save gold on Academy, or get merchant for Metal Casting...

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

@sylvanllewelyn

Spoiler :

I played beyond the opening to see if I could get something to work that I’ve done on immortal arid climate with hunting starts. It worked although I accept it might just have been RNG.

The approach is to fog bust with scouts rather than warriors. With so little defensive terrain, the only way to push out without risking your life is to move one tile with a scout and retreat if you come across a barb. You can also dance around anything that appears while staying reasonably close to the area you want to fog bust. The alternative is just accepting that barbs will spawn constantly in the desert (unless you have units strong enough to allow you to risk pushing out).

There’s actually not a lot of space between you and the AIs here and I was able to fog bust everything with two scouts and a warrior.

A couple of barbs spawned before I pushed out completely but I ignored them. Justinian and Toku killed them eventually.

This meant no barb city around the silk and it’s possible to get that spot because Justinian settles to the west slightly. Also, if you focus on chopping rather than improving tiles you can then block Sury/Toku off to the east of that city. I managed it based on turn order. I can’t really say whether I’d have gone there without map knowledge. It’s rather underwhelming (particularly as I had to settle further north than I'd like to stop Sury taking the fish) but it stops Sury settling in your face and realistically you need it if you want six cities for the Globe Theatre later.

I don’t think my situation looks amazing at T86. Toku is plotting and, although he’s annoyed with Justinian, I think I’ve got two warriors and two scouts so I’m clearly an attractive target. But other than that, which is pure RNG, I think I’m in a decent position.

Most importantly, I think I have iron. I can’t remember where it was exactly but either the silk or fish city should have it. And Sury has the marble. I think Justinian had the marble too which led to him building all the marble wonders (?). Not sure about that though.

My cities are also less reliant on culturally contested tiles and I border Sury. This gives me a potential choice between attacking Justinian or Sury. Sury may be easier because Justinian will basically allow you to desecrate his mother’s grave if you’re in his religion and theocracy.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Immortal, coastal start. It's an okay map. Not bad at all. I am just not sure what to do.

BUFFY save and worldbuilder save attached.

Edit: map script game settings

Spoiler :

Starting screen.

Spoiler :

The question. Mild (5 turns) map spoiler.

Spoiler :

Animal husbandry is the obvious choice but should I go fishing instead? If I don't work the lake tile, then how do I get worker techs. But we find out there is not much seafood nearby.

Next question. Moderate (15 turns) map spoilers.

Spoiler :

Not isolation. Going Great Lighthouse does not seem great because there is not much seafood nearby. Not going Great Lighthouse also does not seem great because there is not much space nearby. Lots of space beyond the jungle but not rich.

 

[sampsa]

@sylvanllewelyn

Spoiler :

I think it's between SIP, 1E, 2E, unless scout 1N reveals something. Should be a decent spot for GLH at least. Unless it's pangaea, you didn't mention map script.