Codifying Public Polls

[Black_Hole]

I think we should create a code of laws article saying that all policy and law polls should be public, while CC polls and elections should be private
While we are at it we could also add somehting about abstain...
I havent come up with some text yet, as i want people to decide exactly what should be public, and how to treat abstain

I think abstain votes could make a poll invalid if abstain gets the most votes/ties for most votes but otherwise they wont matter, for
example 1:
yes: 4
no: 3
abstain: 3

yes would win because abstain would not be included so it would be a 57% win


example 1:
yes: 4
no: 2
abstain: 4

the poll would be considered invalid

also note this wouldnt count for any special polls that have already made procedures for abstain(constitution amendments is the only i believe)

 

[blackheart]

Let's try to not be too constrictive about this though, as I'm sure many people will resist any attempts to limit their polling options.

 

[Black_Hole]

Let's try to not be too constrictive about this though, as I'm sure many people will resist any attempts to limit their polling options.

all its saying is policy and law polls must be public,cc's/elections must be private, and u have to have abstain as an option

people can still choose what options they want, but to make a poll not binding if abstain gets/ties for the most votes

 

[Cyc]

I'm not too sure about this one, Black_Hole. Although I agree with you whole-heartedly, Japanatica is a free country. Anyone that wants to hide behind a veil in cowardice, has the right to do just that.


In the case of Constitutional Amendments (Legislative Polls), I think this is an excellent idea and we should move forward with it. But as far as everything else, forcing people to comply with this may be to controlling.

 

[Black_Hole]

I'm not too sure about this one, Black_Hole. Although I agree with you whole-heartedly, Japanatica is a free country. Anyone that wants to hide behind a veil in cowardice, has the right to do just that.


In the case of Constitutional Amendments (Legislative Polls), I think this is an excellent idea and we should move forward with it. But as far as everything else, forcing people to comply with this may be to controlling.

well i do agree that legislative polls is a top priority, as we dont want non citizens chaning our constitution, i guess we should give poll creators the right to choose...

 

[Provolution]

We can however make it mandatory to have certain platform issues carved out in elections. Polling policy and so on. A set of default question would be nice here.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I'm not too sure about this one, Black_Hole. Although I agree with you whole-heartedly, Japanatica is a free country. Anyone that wants to hide behind a veil in cowardice, has the right to do just that.


In the case of Constitutional Amendments (Legislative Polls), I think this is an excellent idea and we should move forward with it. But as far as everything else, forcing people to comply with this may be to controlling.

I'm a coward for not wanting public polls? That's something new...

People should be able to vote without pressure and without people asking what they voted for. Private polls are better than public. In a private poll, you are free to share who you voted for, but it is no mandatory. In a private, you won't have to worry about people asking why you voted for something - if you voted in a recent country's election, (say the US's), do you like when people ask you who you voted for? Many people do not. Many people like to keep it to themselves, but some like to share. If we use all public, then everyone has to share. That's not the way some people want it. I understand that we're not trying to mimic real life - but we have to keep some things the same. Let people have some privacy.

Ultimately, I think it's a Minister/Governor's choice. Whatever they want is fine. It's not that big of a deal. Why turn it into one?

edit: Provo, are you talking about a standard polling format? That'd also be a step in the wrong direction methinks. That would make it so boring...and uninteresting. Where's the fun in that?

 

[Provolution]

GA, not a standard polling format at all. I think the issue will be remedied in the elections, where each candidate would present their way of polling, as one of the key questions everyone should be asked. Then people knew how they would poll the next term. I am for either option, and each minister has their own flavor, it is above all personalities driving this game. Boring and bland people are no good.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

So we're now going to vote for people based on their preferences of polling?

You could have the worst strategies, yet you have a favorable view on polls, and you get elected? Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[Black_Hole]

Ginger_Ale:
If you think deeper, your post talking about the USA goes against
This has been said before: when voting on legislation or policy you are voting as a congress person(check the constitution if you dont believe me), while in elections and ccs you are voting as citizens
In the usa congress the congressmen's votes are public, you can easily figure find them through many ways

And their polling preference is also one major factor in who i vote for, and provo can vote for anybody for whatever reason he wants... maybe he wants the trade minister to have purple hair, so he votes for the person that has purple hair, its his choice

edit: article E.1:

1.The House of the People will be formed of the entirety of the
citizenry and is responsible for the drafting of new Laws and
Amendments to the Constitution.
a.The House will present all proposed Articles, Amendments
and Laws to the Judicial Branch for review.

 

[Provolution]

So we're now going to vote for people based on their preferences of polling?

You could have the worst strategies, yet you have a favorable view on polls, and you get elected? Doesn't seem fair to me.

I said ONE of the questions would be polling policies, to get a more full picture of the candidate. Of course, some democratic idiot with politically correct polling practices and no vision, no analysis and no plan would certainly face Darwins Law.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Can you please read my post again (or for the first time if you didn't read it):

I understand that we're not trying to mimic real life - but we have to keep some things the same. Let people have some privacy.

We don't have to follow the US. That's actually sort of unfair. A number of our citizens in this game are not from the US - should we force them to adopt the US constitution rather than a universal ruleset?

The US has nothing to do with our game, like I said. Neither do their rules. When I say mimic real life, I mean that each citizen has a vote, and that each citizen should be allowed to use their vote in a poll free from pressure.

Why can't we use private polls? You can still share votes if you want to (same as public), and you get to keep it to yourself it you want it (not in public)...


edit: Crosspost with Provo.


--Why don't we just play the game? Polling should be the last thing on our minds...--

 

[Strider]

well i do agree that legislative polls is a top priority, as we dont want non citizens chaning our constitution, i guess we should give poll creators the right to choose...

Non-citizens? What exactly is a non-citizen? Someone who has not voted inside of the Citizen Registry?

Tell me, does that make one bit of a differance? So what, someone can spend 15 seconds more and register, and THEN influence are legislative polls, legally.

What's the point? Is it in the vain hope that you might catch someone new player who didn't know he had to sign up? Or is it in the hope that it might actually aid your side once? It is pointless, and even if we do discover someone who has yet to sign up, a simple 15 second post fixes that.

Public polls does naught but scare away our new players, it causes people discomfort, more so during times like these. I will not give up my right to privacy, just for the ability invade on others.

 

[Black_Hole]

Non-citizens? What exactly is a non-citizen? Someone who has not voted inside of the Citizen Registry?

Tell me, does that make one bit of a differance? So what, someone can spend 15 seconds more and register, and THEN influence are legislative polls, legally.

What's the point? Is it in the vain hope that you might catch someone new player who didn't know he had to sign up? Or is it in the hope that it might actually aid your side once? It is pointless, and even if we do discover someone who has yet to sign up, a simple 15 second post fixes that.

Public polls does naught but scare away our new players, it causes people discomfort, more so during times like these. I will not give up my right to privacy, just for the ability invade on others.

first of all you cant vote in the citizen registry
its so we know who will vote strider, in our term 1 electoin scandal why didnt the person post in the registry? either because he was too lazy or he didnt know about it
see it sucks out atleast 2 groups(lazy ppl, and uninformed people)

 

[Strider]

first of all you cant vote in the citizen registry
its so we know who will vote strider, in our term 1 electoin scandal why didnt the person post in the registry? either because he was too lazy or he didnt know about it
see it sucks out atleast 2 groups(lazy ppl, and uninformed people)

It does nothing, and people are only uninformed because the information threads have not been updated in ages, and other then those old threads, we have nothing to help new players.

Your fears are unfounded. Your worried about something that will NEVER happen, and even if it does, it's likely that it won't influence anything.

 

[Black_Hole]

It does nothing, and people are only uninformed because the information threads have not been updated in ages, and other then those old threads, we have nothing to help new players.

Your fears are unfounded. Your worried about something that will NEVER happen, and even if it does, it's likely that it won't influence anything.

how hard would it be to go to hotmail, register 30 accounts, then come here and register 30 accounts, then vote in an election? if someone was very determined to win an election taht could happen
also if someone really wants to become a citizen they will look through a few stickies and find it, it is usually one of the top stickies(that and the current tc)

 

[Provolution]

GA

I agree

I am not a major public/private poll debater, but since Ravensfire make such a big number out of it, there is a countermovement. If Ravensfire and some others
dropped it, and accepted preferences by individuals, it would be a non issue.
However I can see from the horrendously wasteful abstain debate, that some of the players are draining energy for principles, yet, some of these hate organization of planning, calling it bureaucracy, whereas they swamp us in legal paragraphs, principles and what have you. However, being a Demogame, mock government and so on, this will not be as seamless as a Succession Game or Game of the Month, with the leadership of micromanagaging stat-masters.
Political and organizational planning and conflict drives this game, and with no nerve, it would die away.

 

[Strider]

how hard would it be to go to hotmail, register 30 accounts, then come here and register 30 accounts, then vote in an election? if someone was very determined to win an election taht could happen
also if someone really wants to become a citizen they will look through a few stickies and find it, it is usually one of the top stickies(that and the current tc)

Obviously you have not been inside of this game for very long. Throughout the 2 years the Civ3 Democracy Game has been running, the ONLY time there was speculation of someone registering multiple accounts and using that to win an election was a Domestic election, and that later proved to be false.

It is the same, and a very much longer time period, for the Civ2 Democracy Game.

Once again, your acting like a scared little rabbit.

 

[blackheart]

I am not a major public/private poll debater, but since Ravensfire make such a big number out of it, there is a countermovement. If Ravensfire and some others
dropped it, and accepted preferences by individuals, it would be a non issue.
However I can see from the horrendously wasteful abstain debate, that some of the players are draining energy for principles, yet, some of these hate organization of planning, calling it bureaucracy, whereas they swamp us in legal paragraphs, principles and what have you. However, being a Demogame, mock government and so on, this will not be as seamless as a Succession Game or Game of the Month, with the leadership of micromanagaging stat-masters.
Political and organizational planning and conflict drives this game, and with no nerve, it would die away.

Dragining energy for principles? So we should let our principles erode and go with whatever anyone wants then? Provo, you're doing the same thing anytime anyone opposes you, and that's calling them idiots who have no idea what they're doing, basically saying you know all and you know what's best.

 

[Ashburnham]

Man, this thread sure got real ugly real fast. Let me just say that public polling is the way to go because it is important for us, as voters, to know how our elected officials voted. If, for example, I see that a certain Minister repeatedly voted to slash the Science budget, I'm not going to vote for them. Public polling makes us all better informed citizens, and thus better citizens in general.