Colonization Patch ?

Dale said:
A. Regardless of whether thinking in terms of weight or size, when a unit requires a specific size ship for transport it should take up that size transport ship. If you add more weight or more size then that transport ship will sink. If a ship required a caravel to transport, it wouldn't ask for a galleon. That's basic logic.
Click to expand...

I think you look at this the wrong way. Say you're going to move a refrigerator, and you've got three options. A van, a coupé and a motorcycle. Naturally, moving it with anything other than the van is out of the question. It's too big. But that doesn't mean you can only move one refrigerator in the same van. You might get four in there, or six.

Now, I understand that you've fought long and hard to keep this "bugfix" in your patch, and that you're not about to change your mind. But still, considering how galleons work and how big (small) typical treasures are, I can not see a single good reason to keep it like this.

The only thing it adds is tedious micromanagement, in a game which doesn't need more of that. It's an unrealistic and unfun feature, and it takes away one of the real highlights of a typical Colonization-game: Getting your first galleon, and finally getting the treasure you've found back home. It's the first real FU to the king, if you will.

Remember that you've already spent a lot of effort getting the treasure in the first place. Especially in an MP game. So it's not free money. So why a treasure worth 500 doubloons should require an entire galleon, the same as 6000 doubloons worth of silver, is frankly beyond me.

Also, merry christmas! :)
 
Old MacDonald said:
I think you look at this the wrong way. Say you're going to move a refrigerator, and you've got three options. A van, a coupé and a motorcycle. Naturally, moving it with anything other than the van is out of the question. It's too big. But that doesn't mean you can only move one refrigerator in the same van. You might get four in there, or six.

Now, I understand that you've fought long and hard to keep this "bugfix" in your patch, and that you're not about to change your mind. But still, considering how galleons work and how big (small) typical treasures are, I can not see a single good reason to keep it like this.

The only thing it adds is tedious micromanagement, in a game which doesn't need more of that. It's an unrealistic and unfun feature, and it takes away one of the real highlights of a typical Colonization-game: Getting your first galleon, and finally getting the treasure you've found back home. It's the first real FU to the king, if you will.

Remember that you've already spent a lot of effort getting the treasure in the first place. Especially in an MP game. So it's not free money. So why a treasure worth 500 doubloons should require an entire galleon, the same as 6000 doubloons worth of silver, is frankly beyond me.

Also, merry christmas! :)
Click to expand...

So change it. It's just an XML change as I've pointed out 15 times already. :)
 
I don't know how many of you use the FaireWeather map script, but the large size of those maps can really create an abundance of treasures. Could the item of complaint be due to the logistics of dealing with treasures rolling in hand over fist?

I just kinda like a large map to explore so I made them bigger than the default.
 
Meh, Col2 treasure sux anyhow.
In Col1 treasure was a relatively rare event, obtained only from burning large villages (which took significant time & investment in arms) or exploring lost city rumours (Seven Cities of Cibola / burial grounds)

Col2, you just set an explorer to auto, and 20 turns later you have a caravan train of treasure stretching all the way from your scout back to your cities. Feels extremely cheap.
 
Dale said:
Except there actually ARE mods for Col2, some damn good ones!
You've got Land of Our Fathers, Americo's Mod and my own Age of Discovery. There's many other smaller mods too that contain one single change or a map as well to choose from. :)
Click to expand...

I read the OP with a slightly different meaning ... that whilst they have a link for updates on the main menu, they expected the mod community to do the work for them :)
 
Antilogic said:
Guys, just use the unofficial patch. It is playable, winnable, and I have enjoyed the few games that I have played (RL prevents me from sitting in front of a computer playing games all day).

Just don't get cold feet when the REF is landing. It's supposed to be massive and freak you out. You are supposed to lose colonies, fight in the fields, and recover your territory after the bulk of the REF has been dispatched. It's not supposed to be easy.
Click to expand...

Actually it is easy regardless of any number of troops/ships the REF has. The number just determines the amount of time it takes due to the lack of any AI.

I don't think it can done with a simple Patch.
Firaxis messed it up too bad.
However this would explain the time it takes for a patch or they gave up on it

Let's begin with AI
Did the AI devs even understand their own game mechanic?
Why is the AI from before 12 years actually better than the current one?

Example from my experience.

A REF with around xxx total troops and xx ships will land only with around 8 to 10 troops a time. (Either with amphibius assault or on some tiles next or close to a city or even in native settlements).

At first I thought I'm hopelessly lost against a REF that large with only about 50 dragoons and some cannons and soldiers. But no! With the tactic of "hitting one with the fingers spread" the REF did not make any progress.
It only took around xxx/10 rounds to win against the REF each turn sitting in the Fortress and attacking with 30 or 20 draggons every unit that lands ..... Yes this is funny - No it isn't!

So making up for any difficulty by just using masses of troops by letting the REF grow exponentially with your own troops.

No better watching on other nations
AI controlled colonies doing nothing towards defense.

- I saw evolved other european empires ( 150 turns or so) almost wiped out by a single native group.
- When other KI nations declare Independence it is a sure win for the King
- most times the other colonies just found a colony just 2 fields away from your fist colony. This is annoying.


Continue with other "bugs" or ridiculus balance isssues actually punishing you for trying to settle the land.

Emigration vs buying of specialists (In the late game "hurring emigration" would have costed me about 10 or more times the amount of buying a specialist Point of education?)
Education ( Why the hell should there be an exponential penality for teaching? No man lives 270 turns!)
Liberty bells ( exponential grow of REF army to compensate the lack of any AI)
Tax increases based on goods traded (penality for trading recources to europe THAT WAS THE IDEA BEHIND Mercantilism)


No game depth or any historical bound
- Goods traded
- No european war's affecting colonies
- Prices are not evolving at all due to selling only taxes do ( I can sell thousands of tons of coats and only see tax increases but no


I loved playing the original Game where it actually was fun to build a working economy and mainly prices ruled the productivity. And the expansion could become exponential as everything in economy behaved.... only to be stopped by lack of resources.

This was leading to a long term addiction and fun playing the game.
This time you are being punished for playing! What the hell?
 
Thx Supr49er

I tryed it and it certainly gives something more to the game that there had been before.
Achievments other victories, other factions, and certainly some improvements in the numbers.

However it does not solve the fundamental problems in some game concepts. Most of this where actually different in the original col and gave it the
"long time satisfaction". Right now you are "punished for playing". The optimal strategy is a glitch to win in around 40 turns (ok solved in AOD2 but still most of the game concepts get are degenerated at around turn 100 normal played game with just buying any specialist from europe. However economic victory is a good approach. But the education system is totaly degenerate.)


Here some of my ideas to improve the situation.

Education
Why it takes longer for each citizen educated?
Or can you imagine that Harvard Univ. (founded) 1636 is almost unable to graduate anyone a year but the Wadi International University (Syria founded 2005) would pop out 10 statesmen a year ^^.

-You are basically building education facilities to find them useless after a few (around 10 educated citizen)
- Same goes for educated citizen in native tribes (want to make a last settlement with the missing furs? Impossible the fur trapper would take 100 turns to educate!
If the same mechanic would go for europe you wouldn't be able to by any specialists

Alternative here:
Education gets no penality but the buying of specialists in europe does (right as soldiers and cannons are more expensive the more you buy. (King's universities need to other thing's)
So in order to have highly efficent colonies you need to invest in educational buildings (sounds logic) or have to pay insaine prices to europe and you don't get just a small one time benefit from it.

Prices for specialists graduating should not be paid (because not to have the money is very easy to achieve (by king or the ship that just bought one soldier too many).

but instead different requirements and educational times.

EXAMPLE

School : Harvester jobs ( lumberjack, farmer, cotton planter ....) x turns
College : Manufacturing jobs ( Carpenter , Weaver , Hardy pioneer ...) 1.5 x turns
University : academic jobs ( Statesman Priest ) 2 x turns

x can be around 6 or 8. A lower man educated at a higher school gets a 1.5 or 2 times bonus. E.g. a Farmer educated at a university will take only 3 turns ( at normal speed ) at a college 2/3 so 4 turns instead of 6.
Not being a settler but a criminal will lengthen the time by a factor of 2 a ind servant will lengthen by 1.5.

This chance will prohibit the quick buildup of statesman at the beginning but will allow evolved empires to teach their own people (as it should be).
This is similar to the original col where schools actually were important!

Another Idea of Education is "By doing". Some random chance (around 1/50 or so per turn that a free settler becomes proficent in the work he is doing just by doing it. This also could solve the problem of "not having a single fur trapper teaching native settlement on the map".
This is a new concept but I think it is obvious.


Crosses

To get people to educate you would have to invest in crosses ( or buy the guys from the docks. However no infinte grow funtion for the crosses ( I understand that the requirement must somehow change or you would not get enyone at all in the beginning or so many that you cannot get them into colonies in the late game.
I recommend some kind of logistic function:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_function
The limit of the by price will have to be around the initial price of a specialist.

You should always doing better by teaching a settler a new job than by buying it infinitly from your motherland for a fixed price. (Even buying low cost specialist to clear their specialisation and teach them by natives.

Trade route system:

The import export system is also thought for smaller colonies only ( 2 - 3 colonies) with more and extensive use of it it the possiblities get out of hand. I recommend the old way of selecting only a trade route and no import exports in the city.
First target city ( drop down menu) goods to be traded (drop down or list) load / unload number to be keept in the city.


This proposials are aiming to turn colonization into the game it was.
A long term fun playing game with a high addiciton factor.

I think I stopped playing col as a friend of mine showed me a cheat code to make the costs of each specialist in the docks in europe 1g ------> No more fun building you simply buy everything. The same thing happens right now in CIV4 col around when you crossed some income limit.


Concering the MOD AOD2
- gun price is that low for a reason ( a) trade with indians (no you are not always able to sell guns with a profit take a calculator b) to force you to produce something different than guns to make money

- cheaper trading ships needed if there is a danger due to pirates
- The rebel sentiment should be calculated for the the entire nation but the garrison in a city should also get value of the city bell production and out of the city units be influced by the nearest city but only by 50%. ( reducing the effectiveness of the bells in a city by garrison + near city units)
Only europe should be excluded
 
Hoimar said:
Thx Supr49er

Another Idea of Education is "By doing". Some random chance (around 1/50 or so per turn that a free settler becomes proficent in the work he is doing just by doing it. This also could solve the problem of "not having a single fur trapper teaching native settlement on the map".
This is a new concept but I think it is obvious.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's not new. It was present in original colonization, for gathering jobs.
 
Ok this adds to the long list of:

Game functionality removed of the original Col when making civIVcol and advertising with

"Classic Game Design Rebuilt for the Modern Era: Usher forth a new generation of Sid Meier’s Colonization with gameplay built on the award winning Civilization IV engine, providing the beautiful visuals, famously addictive gameplay and endless fun that are synonymous with Sid Meier strategy games."

So they based the gameplay on the Civilization IV engine and not the original Colonization?^^
Hm where is my tech tree?
Where is the option to create a colony? Wait I am the colony!
Cultural victory?
Wonders? I need the Pyramids or at least Chichen Itza
Aggressive AI's that declare sometimes even war and are not overun by a few babarians


Sorry I played Col around 94 or 95. It was certainly a fact that I was missing.
 
With "engine" they refer to the Gamebryo graphics engine and the python/xml scripting that's used for civ4.
 
Ahhh, a brand new year, so I thought I'd check to see if anyone from Firaxis has done even one post ANYwhere. Nope. Also thought I'd check to see if there was even one quick fix patch for this game after all this time (and at LEAST for all the people that might have got this game as a gift for Chrismas). Nope.

BTW, just thought I'd mention, Stardock/Ironclad are about to release their 8th patch for SoaSE any day now (the 3rd patch since Colonization came out that is). That's about a patch a month, and, the Devs and even the head of the company still talk to the forum people every week; answering questions and giving updates about what's going on.

Give companies like the above your business, and think 2, 3, even 4 times before buying from Firaxis again. . .
 
Thanks Dale, I know all about you (and Snoopy's) great work.

BUT, its an "Unofficial Patch".

This whole thing is like a micro-cosum of the financil crisis here in the USA; sure games are not homes or stocks, and game companies are not banks or CEOs, but most game companies sell their games with the same greed and future consideration for their customers as the banks/CEOs have been for years.
 
Ahh..... so it's a Firaxis quick fix you were after. Sorry. :)

I wouldn't hold your breath mate. :(
 
I guess i'll have to try this unofficial patch, I got the game for xmas and finally got around to playing it. Played thru twice (first time someone else won second time I dominated) and I already feel tired of this game. There is really no depth or replayability to this game at all. Everything is way to simple, you end up producing 4x the raw resources you need for anything and raw resources are pointless to sell. Maybe 2 unrefined = 1 refined would help this. I might be just stupid but I couldnt get automated trade routes to work so most of the time im just ferrying . .. .. .. . back and forth between cities.

I just feel like there is so much they could have done with this game but they took the easy way out, I hope it didnt cost much because this is a game to pirate (i own civ4 and all the expansions). There should be specific quests, in the scenarios the cherokee shouldnt be in south america (is that too much to ask) there should be more units and a better AI. Where is the small pox, random wars between mother coutnries that you get dragged into. Why is the tax rate so basic, couldnt goods be taxed rather than just one flat level. Why cant I communicate with other foreign leaders once i declare independece and ask for help? Two map types? 4 scenarios?

This feels like a mod for civ4 i would download not a standalone game
 
Dale said:
So change it. It's just an XML change as I've pointed out 15 times already. :)
Click to expand...

Well, that wasn't quite the point. I was just trying to explain why I disagree with the logic behind this feature, and why it, in my somewhat educated opinion, makes the game less fun. Feedback, you know. :)

For the record, you've done a very good job on this patch/mod. There's just this one feature that's completely bonkers.
 
I'd appreciate some feedback. I just purchased this game and want to get some insight on how to proceed. I have not played the game yet.

I immediately logged into the forum and installed the Dale/Snoopy patch based on some of the comments about bugs, etc. I saw the reference in this thread to the Land of Our Fathers Mod so I downloaded this as well. I have not installed the mod yet.

I guess my basic question is if I should play the Dale/Snoopy or move on to the LOF Mod? Again, based on many posts, it appears the standard game has many issues. Also, what are some of the pros and cons of vanilla, Dale/Snoopy or LOF?

As a side note, I played the original Colonization but it isn't like I have any expectations or comparisons between the two. I simply want the best gaming experience possible.

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond.
 
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