[BTS] Colonization to another Continent

[Luís Felipe Silva Pinto]

Is there any reason to colonize another continent so far away? And would it be worth trying? From how much I've played it's so expensive to maintain cities far from the capital and stuff.

 

[a pen-dragon]

First I want to point out that distance maintenance can be set to 0 with the state property civic. The mechanic that makes settling other land masses expensive is colony maintenance, which scales with the third power of your cities on the same (non-capital) land mass. (two powers from the maintenance for one city, one all cities getting increased maintenance)

If playing without vassals colony maintenance is disabled. Else it is capped by iMaxColonyMaintenance in Civ4HandicapInfo. In short the cap is twice the distance maintenance. Note that this means that in SP the colony maintenance is 0. For details look at CvCity::calculateColonyMaintenanceTimes100().

If you are in SP or are playing without vassals, go for it!

Else maybe get an AI lead colony and/or a few cities for yourself.

 

[AcaMetis]

One trick I love to recommend to people in Noble's Club games, especially with leaders that are IND (although it obviously doesn't always come up on every single map), is that building enough courthouses and than Forbidden Palace on your main continent, and moving the (relatively very cheap in terms of cost) actual Palace building to the new continent, gives you a relatively affordable palace on both continents. Having a palace on a continent (actual Palace, Forbidden Palace national wonder, or Versailles world wonder) prevents Colonial Maintenance, and of course gives you a relatively nearby palace building to keep distance maintenance in check.

 

[6K Man]

I'll just add that the screenshot seems to show a VERY big map. If you build several cities on the second continent, the maintenance will kill you as @a pen-dragon noted. If you don't, the barbarians (or AIs, when they get there) will kill you.

So, colonize post State Property, turn off vassals, or get ready to build move Palaces per @AcaMetis .

 

[Core Imposter]

Is there any reason to colonize another continent so far away? And would it be worth trying? From how much I've played it's so expensive to maintain cities far from the capital and stuff.

View attachment 714046​

How did you generate that map?

 

[Luís Felipe Silva Pinto]

How did you generate that map?

Totestra script running with Realism Invictus

 

[Core Imposter]

Totestra script running with Realism Invictus

Ah, thank you.

 

[Plains-Cow]

Honestly, I've always seen making colonies as more of a roleplay sort of thing rather than something that actually could help you win the game. I struggle to think of any scenario outside of some convoluted issues where having one would be helpful.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Normally, I setup colonies if there are resources that I want. A handful of spare galleons, settlers, and workers, is a small investment. Usually, I've already cleared the place with military units.

I don't want to pay colonial maintenance until the courthouses are completed. Military techs take precedence over communism.

 

[jorissimo]

One trick I love to recommend to people in Noble's Club games, especially with leaders that are IND (although it obviously doesn't always come up on every single map), is that building enough courthouses and than Forbidden Palace on your main continent, and moving the (relatively very cheap in terms of cost) actual Palace building to the new continent, gives you a relatively affordable palace on both continents. Having a palace on a continent (actual Palace, Forbidden Palace national wonder, or Versailles world wonder) prevents Colonial Maintenance, and of course gives you a relatively nearby palace building to keep distance maintenance in check.

Kind of want to try this with Portugal on Immortal. Bulb optics early, do the palaces thing and have two separate empires for a long time until Astro. Would probably mean falling back in tech but it might pay off in the long run?

 

[AcaMetis]

Having cities on separate continents isn't really worth it until you have Astro. Portugal's UU does allow you to colonize with only Optics and that can be nice for getting a head start, but Astro is what you need to trade across uncultured ocean tiles, and intercontinental trade routes are what makes colonizing another landmass (or contacting AIs on another landmass) really worth it.

 

[jorissimo]

Having cities on separate continents isn't really worth it until you have Astro. Portugal's UU does allow you to colonize with only Optics and that can be nice for getting a head start, but Astro is what you need to trade across uncultured ocean tiles, and intercontinental trade routes are what makes colonizing another landmass (or contacting AIs on another landmass) really worth it.

That's true, but I'm kind of trying to see what happens if we take the palace thing to its logical extreme. Let's say a pre-Astronomy 16-city empire spread across two continents, where each continent has 8 cities and a palace. They would have domestic trade routes on each side. What would happen in terms of maintenance? Would it be higher than the maintenance of a 16-city empire on one continent?

 

[AcaMetis]

Depends. The single continent 16 city empire would have to be more spread out to fit twice the number of cities, thus having higher distance maintenance, so it would have the higher maintenance unless you permitted it to have a second palace as well. Other than that, as far as I know, they'd be equal.

 

[jorissimo]

I did some testing with this using an advanced start (medieval) on Immortal. A couple of observations:

Regarding Carracks and Astro: if you're beelining Optics anyway you might as well bulb Astro, which is a good tech to bulb. I did this using 2 GS I got from the GL and the NE. Conclusion: very short window for Carracks.

Regarding the palace trick: I did this, and after building the FP in the old world and the palace in the new, I was still paying hefty colonial maintenance, now in the old world. However, by the time I got the palace set up in the new world, I was close to Communism, which you will want to beeline anyway with this strategy. Which made it a waste, because I couldn't use Bureaucracy with my old, highly developed capital anymore. Conclusion: the old SP beeline is superior. With the caveat that you won't go bankrupt if you start colonizing at Astro. Which is a very slow process anyway, due to the long distances, festering barbs and large number of worker turns necessary.

 

[AcaMetis]

I could have sworn that having any of the three palace buildings on a continent would prevent colonial maintenance altogether, not just the actual palace.

 

[Lennier]

IME, FP reduces distance penalties, but doesn’t eliminate colony penalties.

 

[Core Imposter]

This is good thing really because we have many ways to beat the AI already. And the AI isn't capable of doing it if it did work. Brings to mind a question, which civilizations in history moved their capital off their home continent?

 

[Plains-Cow]

This is good thing really because we have many ways to beat the AI already. And the AI isn't capable of doing it if it did work. Brings to mind a question, which civilizations in history moved their capital off their home continent?

This has actually happened multiple times in history, but the most long-term and serious one I know about was when the Portuguese did it:

"For thirteen years, Rio de Janeiro functioned as the capital of the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves in what some historians call a metropolitan reversal (i.e., a colony exercising governance over the entirety of an empire). The period in which the court was located in Rio brought significant changes to the city and its residents, and can be interpreted through several perspectives. It had profound impacts on Brazilian society, economics, infrastructure, and politics. The transfer of the prince regent and the royal court "represented the first step toward Brazilian independence, since the prince regent immediately opened the ports of Brazil to foreign shipping and turned the colonial capital into the seat of government."

Transfer of the Portuguese court to Brazil - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jorissimo]

There is also the case of Brazzaville being the capital of Free France during WW2:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_French_Africa

 

[s.bernbaum]

This is good thing really because we have many ways to beat the AI already. And the AI isn't capable of doing it if it did work. Brings to mind a question, which civilizations in history moved their capital off their home continent?

Since Rome is in Europe and Constantinople (now Istanbul) is technically in Asia, and at the time that Emperor Constance moved the capital the entire city was south of the strait, the Roman empire did it.