Come on, Firaxis, give us a leaderhead editor!!

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I don't wish to be negative, but I'm certainly going to sound it .

I really would like there to be a proper leaderhead editing program available, so that we really can mod to our hearts' desires. I know this might just be me, but I find nifskope and the maxtools both limiting and very irritating to use. I've tried no end of times (using the tutorials) to modify leaderheads with only a basic amount of success (and that was last year). Currently, whenever I try to save leaderheads I've modified, the system crashes (whether I use sceneviewer or nifskope or 3dsmax).

You might say what do animated leaderheads matter, or keep trying, someone's getting somewhere with it! It's a matter of personal taste (in terms of animated/static) and I fall into the wanting animated leaderheads category. There have been some very good reskins and people have worked very hard to put them together, but it would be great IMHO to be able to have some form of leaderhead generating program - so we can have original looking leaderheads instead of lots of Alexander lookalikes.

Am I the only one to want this?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

no you are not......

 

[lionheart]

I'm actually looking into the tutorials for leaderhead editing now, to see if I can get the hang of it.. It looks mighty difficult, but I'd really like to learn.. A leaderhead editor would definitely make things a lot easier..

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

no you are not......

Not surprised .

I'm actually looking into the tutorials for leaderhead editing now, to see if I can get the hang of it.. It looks mighty difficult, but I'd really like to learn.. A leaderhead editor would definitely make things a lot easier..

It would, I agree. The tutorials are great, don't get me wrong, but I've two issues - firstly, that Nifskope keeps crashing; secondly, that the results are ultimately reskins of other leaders - so you get a lot of similar-looking leaders.
Some very good jobs, but it would be nice to inject the kind of originality we're able to in Civ III.

 

[GeneralMatt]

It is somewhat possible, Rhyes for Warlords had a Babaloynian guy that was much more than a reskin.. But it would be cool to have a leaderhead editor (Though a lot of hard work to put it together). Maybe some industrious fellow around here could put one together.

 

[Sabio]

Today is possible to edit a LeaderHead with blender, and get a reasonable result, but its not easy, take a lot o time and patience. Anyway, a 3d leaderhead editor wold be nice!

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Read the tutorial carefully. It IS possible now to create entirely new Leaderheads!
As I said in another thread Mulcarn from AoI was made from scratch. All you need is Max and Nifscope.

 

[onedreamer]

I prefer static leaderheads in Civ4 because of 2 reasons:
1a- they are more precise and realistic
1b- they don't change with eras, so in this sense they are "static"

It takes so much time to create a brand new LH that I'd rather prefer these efforts and time of the modders to be put in gameplay adjustments, which in the end is what keeps you playing the game. The animations, once seen, are already old.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I prefer static leaderheads in Civ4 because of 2 reasons:
1a- they are more precise and realistic
1b- they don't change with eras, so in this sense they are "static"

It takes so much time to create a brand new LH that I'd rather prefer these efforts and time of the modders to be put in gameplay adjustments, which in the end is what keeps you playing the game. The animations, once seen, are already old.

Like I said in the first post, it's a matter of taste and I fully respect your point of view. Having said that, being an arty sort of guy (it's being able to do new artwork that helps keep my interest going long enough to actually do all the other work!), I'd like to do animated leaders.

@Ploeperpengel : I can appreciate that from your point of view it's rather frustrating; you've put together a brilliant tutorial that people need to read more carefully and actually take time to improve - to have patience. The issue is (for me) twofold: firstly, the systems seem to crash on me left, right and centre. Secondly, I feel that in this day and age that we shouldn't need to be struggling to provide original artwork for the most moddable version of civilization. Whilst I see a lorry load of advantages in terms of other modding tweaks over Civ III, at least with that it was reasonably easy to churn out good leaderheads.

@Sabio : I've seen your Brazilian leaderhead in CivArmy's thread and you've done a great job there. Is that essentially a remodelled/reskinned leaderhead and if so, which one?

 

[Sabio]

@Sabio : I've seen your Brazilian leaderhead in CivArmy's thread and you've done a great job there. Is that essentially a remodelled/reskinned leaderhead and if so, which one?

Thanks,
It is a remodelled Roosevelt. I took a program called Facegen, and create 3D faces from pictures, and use it as a template to remodel the roosevelt head.

With Blender is possible to edit leader heads. I don't know about max and i am going to test. Any way there is not yet a definitive tutorial about this. C. Roland tutorial is trully good, but there still some gaps inside.

I'm going to try to get 3Dmax and create a new leader.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

No problem I'm not frustrated
Maybe if you guys post what kind of trouble you got exactly(ctds etc.) in the tutorial threads C.R. and me can estimate better where the tutorials have gaps to fill. I personally didn't experience many crashes so I'm quite puzzled by that atm.

Edit: btw I don't think well get anything like an LH editor. The best that might or might not come is an examplefile for Max possibly so in any case there's no way around Max.

 

[Sabio]

Ploeperpengel, the gaps are mostily on the format of the tutorial. I had to look arond four threads to realize how to edit, because of the lots of blender informations nedeed referenced on many topics.

Other thing is the mesh structures that must to exist on the model like b_head, I had to make 5 different editions until I realize that it shall not be deleted. And I realy don't got how the bones are linked to the mesh.

Anyway, maybe the problem is that I not familiar to 3D programs yet... but the C. Roland tutorial works fine for me, but only when got a little bit how to handle Blender.

PS: Every time you try to edit a Warlord LH, there is some error about missing bones.

 

[Rabbit, White]

I'm curious to know, what exactly do you mean by a leaderhead editor? Just a quick list of the kinds of features you're looking for.

 

[Sabio]

I wish there is a program where you cam create a face like in "the sims 2". It's prety ease to model a head, and create some nice things. And some pre-defined animations too. Maybe a interface to import some objects, like hats, or medals an jewels.

Did you got wath I mean?

 

[Rabbit, White]

A program that allows you to "assemble" a face by either using sliders or mix'n'matching various parts is very complex - you either have to create all those variations of noses, ears, mouths, etc., or figure out a way to write algorithms that will modify these parts in consistent ways. This an enormous undertaking and it's unrealistic to expect something like that from Firaxis, much less from some resourceful modder - unless they're a professional that decided to invest some serious time into this.

I mean, show me a game that ships with something like that without it being a part of the game (i.e. the sims don't count). Other highly moddable games such as half life or quake, don't have anything like that, if you want a new character you gotta model that thing. What's more, while I'm not highly familiar with their systems, I don't think there's a way to easily reuse one model's animations with another model's skin. Something that we can do in civ4.

Anyway, I realize that this would've been an awesome tool to have, and I have no problem with people posting "I wish" threads but this thread almost sounds like a demand for Firaxis to create such a tool, as if it should've been shipped with the game in the first place, and I don't think that's right.

 

[Sabio]

Sure Rabbit,
I agree with you, I don't belive too that the Firaxis gonna release something like this.
I belive that games developed so much that is becoming every day much harder to mod. As you say, to have a prefessional results, you must to be a professional. All we can do is to make a little easer to not professional people ceate your own Leaders. Remember, five or six years ago, would like nonsense speak about create 3D units for a game. Softhouses have expended much work to create lots of tools to make games ease to mod because it make longer the game's lifetime and this way make them more proftable. Threads like this demonstrate the desire of the player to improve it and maybe, be a incentive to in the next releases soft houses shipe easer and effective tools to the players.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Anyway, I realize that this would've been an awesome tool to have, and I have no problem with people posting "I wish" threads but this thread almost sounds like a demand for Firaxis to create such a tool, as if it should've been shipped with the game in the first place, and I don't think that's right.

I totally respect your opinion, but I didn't really intend this thread to get too serious in terms of "sounds like a demand" and "don't think that's right". It's just a frustration thread really, which I'm seeing if it's just me or if other people feel that the graphic aspect of modding is way more difficult than in Civ III. I think that in terms of the XML modding, Civ IV is way superior; it's just frustrating to move from one platform that I was able to do some decent art for (which is the part I enjoy the most) to another platform where I know what I'd like, but can't find a graphics package that truely allows me to do it. I don't expect Firaxis to create such an editor, but I was hoping that I'd be able to buy some package that I could make reasonably good and original leaderheads - like the fact I bought Poser allowed me to make leaderheads in my own style for Civ III. Yes, I can make static leaderheads - no problem. They'll be in a similar style/look to the animated leaderheads supplied by Firaxis; I'd just have thought that I could find a way of doing original animated leaderheads using one platform or another - not just deforms/reskins of existing heads.

 

[Sabio]

As ploper sad, there is away to make a new leaderheads, you need 3D Max to do it.

The problem is that the art developed soo much on CIV IV, and edit it to have o pro look needs a lot of know how, that much players dont have.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

I totally respect your opinion, but I didn't really intend this thread to get too serious in terms of "sounds like a demand" and "don't think that's right". It's just a frustration thread really, which I'm seeing if it's just me or if other people feel that the graphic aspect of modding is way more difficult than in Civ III. I think that in terms of the XML modding, Civ IV is way superior; it's just frustrating to move from one platform that I was able to do some decent art for (which is the part I enjoy the most) to another platform where I know what I'd like, but can't find a graphics package that truely allows me to do it. I don't expect Firaxis to create such an editor, but I was hoping that I'd be able to buy some package that I could make reasonably good and original leaderheads - like the fact I bought Poser allowed me to make leaderheads in my own style for Civ III. Yes, I can make static leaderheads - no problem. They'll be in a similar style/look to the animated leaderheads supplied by Firaxis; I'd just have thought that I could find a way of doing original animated leaderheads using one platform or another - not just deforms/reskins of existing heads.

If there's a way to get posermodels into Max or Blender there shouldn't be a problem. But I'm unfamiliar with Poser. Is there a format to any of these programs share?

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

If there's a way to get posermodels into Max or Blender there shouldn't be a problem. But I'm unfamiliar with Poser. Is there a format to any of these programs share?

I can get poser models into 3dsMax - but then can't seem to export them properly!! I use Reiss studio to do it.