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Community Deity Game #14 - The Celts

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by consentient, May 18, 2016.

  1. Phenril

    Phenril Chieftain

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    Still having trouble, where did you find the v32 that is linked to the map, OP link goes to the v33.

    edit : nevermind there is a v32 download ....
     
  2. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I had no idea that the modder had updated his mod, just as I posted this game. Updated the OP with the correct link.

    T120 update

    Triple DOW from W, E and N neighbours. I'm glad I built a load of units, but it will be a slog from here to Rifling.
     
  3. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Yes, that was some bad luck! But I tried both v32 and v33 on the original file without success. Whatever was different with your updated file took care of the problem for me though. Thanks!
     
  4. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Oops, 100 turns in and I forgot to tally kills. So I will estimate conservatively. Do barbs count as “enemy Melee units”?

    EDIT1: GG just spawned. Can I use that to estimate kills? Then assume half of those are melee?
    EDIT2: Are mounted units counted as melee for kills or for keeping the ratio up?

    I am having a terrible time. Just the one neighbor really. Lost two cites. T143 and I just unlocked Civil Service (had been avoiding it) then neighbor offers peace.

    I am reseting back to T64 when I got a religion. Give up the GBR expo and have borders more coherent. Even more picts. Use Liberty GE for NC instead of oracle.
     
  5. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    It loaded with v32 for me.
     
  6. RuntyBassoon143

    RuntyBassoon143 Chieftain

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    I only have v2 of pikemen, but cannot find a link to v1 anywhere. Can someone help me out?
     
  7. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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  8. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I get v1 when I use the MODS button from the menu.
    v2 is the version available from WHoward.
     
  9. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    Interesting. I got something like t86 9-city NC: bought library in the 8th city and dropped 9th right after NC. Culture pantheon helped get through Liberty faster. Now on to t118 Education, which isn't that bad, but I am not doing hot either. After a brief and uneventful war, I am spending significant resources to bribe a neighbor into wars, and I think I just created a monster who I will have to deal with eventually... well, I am not too behind in tech and I am just finishing workshops and universities in major cities, so I think I can focus on units before Acoustics, which I will delay. The western neighbor has 16 cities and keeps on spamming. Now that he is close enough, he is starting to covet my lands. :crazyeye:
     
  10. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    T162 Rifling

    TIL that 6 Muskets in the hexes surrounding a city can take out a ~40 strength city with no problems, without siege. But have I gotten to Rifling early enough? :S
     
  11. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    T180, just unlocked Gunpowder and the mod is working!

    I am having a very odd game. None of the AI opened Piety. So I picked up the GMoD, Pagodas, Mosques, and Sacred Sites. So I will be trying the violent CV after I see who needs to die.

    I got 8 cities, pretty tight formation. NC using Liberty GE on 7 of them at T115. Then planted the last one, right in the center of my territory on flat desert, mostly to block the AI.

    I built 16 Picts, and nothing else but scouts (two scarchers).

    Stupid amounts of bribes to keep the psycho neighbor busy. But now that we both have muskets, I can stop kissing up.
     
  12. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    T272 loss by SV to the far north AI. That is much too fast for me to counter!

    The AI to the NW built Sydney and CN Tower way before I was close to the techs. CV would have been a trick.

    Delaying Civil Service to build picts was not good for anything, so I may try this again giving up several achievements. But the map is probably too sprawling for me get at Dom VC before T272.

    I really enjoyed turtling until Gun Power; lots of tension and I enjoy the early builder phase.
     
  13. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Too bad beetle, and thanks for sharing. If during an AI sweep one civ looks too comfortable, I usually just pay another to attack them, or several to dogpile them.

    It's definitely a challenging map, and my own victory is far from assured, but the Mobilisation + Big Ben + Honor discount should hopefully be enough for me. When I hit either Replaceable Parts or Plastics, I'm probably gonna sell science buildings and just spam units. I'm already building Wealth in all my cities.

    EDIT: In my game, the same neighbour (as in beetle's game) just pushed a few techs ahead, built PT and has city strengths over 100. This is gonna be haaaaaaard!
     
  14. DanQuayle

    DanQuayle Prince

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    New savegame works for me :)

    Do GWB/Bombers count as Melee units?
     
  15. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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  16. Maxattack

    Maxattack Chieftain

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    Hi there !

    I'm regularly watching this forums since I got CiV earlier this year and I have found this community series really entertaining, nice job ! Now that I have a little more experience with Deity and that the series is about a civ I enjoy to play I thougt I'll give it a try. I haven't been able to win Cultural and Domination victories on this difficulty yet, partly because my game often ends up crashing before the end and partly because I suck at domination (yet :D ).

    Anyways, here's my write-up for the moment :
    T80 : empire up and almost running

    Spoiler :
    So seeing the achievements I of course decided I'll go wide and settle as many cities as possible and use religion to help me overwhelm my neighbours. So I settled in place and got my pantheon on turn 5. This was a pretty tough choice because seeing the neighbourhood basically half of the pantheons could have been a good choice and I took a few minutes to weigh the pros and cons. I finally chose to take God of the Open Sky because of the high amount of pastures I'd get in almost every expo and because I thougt it would synergise well with wide cultural victory if I eventually chose to go that way. This led to me not making a lot of FPT for a long while and I was only able to found the second to last religion a couple of turns ago (France got the first, Sweden the second and I think the Ottomans the third, not too sure about that). Strangely enough, the only religious buildings taken by the AI then were cathedrals and monasteries (bleh !) so I faced another tough choice : pagodas, mosques or something else... I chose to take mosques because I'd need a lot of faith to buy buildings in my many expos and I thought I'll get enough happiness later on from the Ceilidh Halls and culture from the pastures anyway. And who knows ? maybe I'll be so insanely lucky I'll still get the pagodas when I enhance :D (in which cas I will definitely rush Sacred Sites and go culture ^^). I took Tithe as a Founder Belief because Church Property had already been taken and I am not confident in my ability to use Initiation Rites efficiently early on when it pops. And Ceremonial Burial would probably have been a little bit overkill (not even sure it was still available...).

    In order to be able to expand as fast as possible I chose the following BO : scout, monument, granary, scout, worker, pictish warrior, settlers x 7
    I took the monument that early cause I wanted to hit Collective rule as fast as possible and followed by the granary because seeing all this wheat I wanted to get to at least 5 pop in Edimburgh before pumping out a continuous flow of settlers. This was a success and due to CR plus plus my 5 pop working on the 2 copper, iron hill and 2 plains horses I was able to get a settler every 4 turns from the very beginning of the REX :) I even delayed the first hard built settler to get a pictish warrior to deal with barbs and escort the poor defenseless civilians (I later rush bought a second one just in case but barbs were pretty calm this game so he didn't do much for his loan...). My first settler went to the far NE spot on the copper next to the mountain and bananas. I can't decide if this was a mistake or not because this spot has exactly 0 production if you don't rush buy the iron hill to the NW (which I hadn't the gold to do immediately) and lots of food so the city was at 3 pop in the blink of an eye which contributed to some serious happiness problems I'll come back to later. The second expo went NW on that desert hill next to the mountain, 2 copper and flood plains which bought my warrior time to claim the gold hill to the E for the third expo on his way back from the first expedition. Then I claimed the northwestern spot next to the cocoa (where I even got a worker from a barb camp !) and I was disappointed to see that Harald was starting to expand toward me and planted a city in a spot which forced me to shift 2 of my future cities by one tile from the spots I had planned for them... Anyways I rapidly took those southeastern spots next to the salt/pearls and wine and finished my expansion by settling the northern copper hill, the near northern cotton flood plains next to a mountain and finished with the eastern copper hill next to the lake. At this point I was dealing with between -3 and -7 happiness and I had to be creative to alternate between improving new luxuries and settling on them in order to be able to continue expanding without interruption... In the end I got those 9 cities down around turn 65 and after building the initial monument, most of them followed by producing exclusively pictish warriors in preparation of the hard times coming up...

    On the scouting/stealing/politics point of view I have been way less successful as I should have... Having no AI as a close neighbour I decided to rely on stealing workers from Kaboul and building my own. Of course, I didn't stick to that and sent the weakened thief to explore the west side of side of the map... only to get killed by moving him too close to a barb camp I knew was there. This was probably a big setback because I think at this point I could have at least 2 more workers and maybe discovered Mt. Kilimandjaro earlier and planned for and expo there as well... I also knew only 3 AI for a long time and by the time I had something to sell, they didn't have spare luxuries anymore which put me in deep unhappiness for a while. I met Harald in the E first and sent a scout there to see if I could grab a worker or two put that was never an option. Soon I stumbled over Nappy and Harald told me he didn't like the arrogant frenchy and that he'd like me to join in a war with him. Here I did something I had never done before and I accepted, hoping that would set both those crazy expansionists back to buy me the time to expand where I want. This partly worked. While Harald managed to put Troyes to 0 health he has never been able to take the city even though he had sent a carpet of melee units and only one or two ranged. I guess this is a good point for me because if both of them stay at a comparable power they'll weaken themselves while I run away ^^ In the meanwhile I had met Gus in the west and was happily selling him my iron (strangely in this game, every AI has tons of horses but no iron so I am easily selling it to them while I'm sitting on a bunch of horses I feed my depresive citizens with... has this something to do with the map script ?). Then I met Pedro from whom I could see the borders of an expo since a few centuries but had no one to send over to take a drink... A long time after those events I eventually met Suleiman and then George and Hiawatha last which was the only one who had a luxury to sell me... At this point I have absolutely no knowledge of the northern and western parts of the world save the capital locations and I wonder what's on the southeastern island. Maybe it's worth settling a few cities there, we'll see (maybe a bit late though...). Shortly after finishing my expansion I wasn't too surprised to spot a danish army marching slowly toward my first expo. I bribed him generously to bring it on against France for another round but on the next turn I still got double DoWed by my two beardy close neighbours. I think this is actually a good thing because I got my bribe money back and Harald is distracted by the Maginot line because Nappy settled in a way the vikings have to pass near his cities to reach their target. On the northern part of the front, the brazilian army has no way to take down my expo because of its excellent defensive position and the fact it is defended by a few angry and mustachy picts. On the downside I have lost way too many of those in this battle because I am still very poor at estimating when a unit is likely to survive a move or not...

    So that's me at turn 80, in the middle of the Liberty Golden Age, having a whopping 40 CPT and 50 GPT (won't last though) and a few turns from completing the tree. I'll get NC around T90 and I'm not too happy about that because I could have shaved at least 4 turns of it if I had started on the libraries eartlier... I'm merely friends with 2 maritime CSes but none of the others and I had to piece out with Kaboul when he started to sent catapults and horses to my latest expo. I'm now at -1 happiness with a capital at 6 pop, an expo at 3, 2 at 2 and the rest at 1. Due to a big lack of workers I am building a queue of those in my cap but that will definitely slow me down... I have 0 caravans and only the one granary in Edimburgh...
    I have almost no idea what I should do next because I'm approaching the phase where my liberty play usually gets stuck and I fall behind...
    I'm still not decided if I'll go late domination or culture but I am sure I won't be able to take Copenhagen with only melee units before the modern era I think I'll let it be. I may be able to take Paris but due to its location relative to other AI I probably won't be able to keep it. Pedro built the Great Wall and Gus is my friend and I'd like him to stay in order to screen the crazy indian warrior.

    Please don't hesitate to comment ! I'd be happy to hear any comments, suggestions and critiques :)


    So this leads me to a bunch of questions for you more experienced guys :
    Do planes count as ranged units ? (if yes I'll stick to culture, if not I'll try a bomber rush and go order to roll over the world with tanks ^^)
    Is there a wide CV guide somewhere ? I'm not sure how to win this VC in this way... I'm maybe planning to enter the Rennaissance through Acoustics to get Ceilidh Halls and maybe Sistine. Does this seem viable ?
    Given my situation, am I better of enhancing immediately, or should I get some faith buildings first ?
    After finishing Liberty I am really hesitant on which tree to open : Piety seems nice but Commerce is tempting too. I may even try for The Oracle because Edimburgh, while being small, has really good production and may get it in time (risky I know...).
    I'll do the workshop before unis trick but I know my cities will be too small to work the specialists for a while anyway. Is that still viable or should I concentrate on happiness and growth first ?

    That's it for now. Sorry for the long writeup but it's definitely the part I like about your series and the main reason why I wanted to join ;)
     
  17. DanQuayle

    DanQuayle Prince

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    Ok, but they also do not count as Range/Siege units either, correct?
     
  18. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Planes do not count as ranged units, but they are not melee either. Remember the achievements (if you care about them) are about having melee units.

    @MaxAttack:

    As far as guides, Acken's Liberty guide helps get the economy going strong, and with more cities, you want to spam more archaeologists, so perhaps worth beelining so you can grab lots of antiquity sites - park your units on them if need be.

    Entering Renaissance through Acoustics is more or less synonymous with CV. The only reason I went through Gunpowder was because I'm going for Domination (regrettably!).

    I'd recommend taking the Tradition opener as the spare policy before Rationalism if you're planning on CV. The border growth is sizeable. Commerce isn't really worth it if you don't plan on conquest. Piety is a poor second tree because it has so little Culture in it. Tradition and Patronage are better places for spare policies.

    If you're going for Culture, growth is much more important than anything else. Acken's guide will help you grow your empire nicely.

    Nice long writeup :) The only thing I'd add next time would be paragraph breaks :p

    Welcome to CFC and CDG :)
     
  19. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Are mounted units counted as melee for buffing the melee:range ratio (Melee Archipelago) or as enemy melee killed (Whirling Skirmish)?

    FWIW, in my replay I gave up on Melee Archipelago. I needed CB/XB for defense, and have not started taking cities (which will be cannons). I am enjoying the game more to be fighting off the psycho neighbor rather than bribing him away. But maybe there is a middle ground with fewer picts and more swords?

    Wait, if you are doing CV, why would you not try and fill out Aesthetics? (OTOH, with my CV attempt, my tech was so poor and my culture so high, I had filled out Liberty but unlocked neither Commerce nor Aesthetics!)

    Is Sacred Sites not worth the bother? (Again, my CV was not close at all. But if the faraway runaway had launched at more typical T350, I think I would have been okay.)
     
  20. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    That was one of my initial thoughts as well. Given the need to buy 10+ Mosques, Piety isn't a bad tree at all.

    @MaxAttack

    Welcome to the series. I enjoyed your write-up.

    The guides Consentient suggests are good ones with some good ideas for many scenarios. In your particular situation, here's a few things I would focus on:

    • Delay Renaiisance. Focus on the faith buildings after enhancing. They'll take care of the happiness (Pagodas are a better choice most of the time IMHO).
    • Workshops and Unis are both very important and you are behind in both production and science. Because of the # of cities, you'll find it easier to catch up in production, so I'd prioritize the Unis.
    • It's probably time to turtle up for a bit, but that doesn't mean you can't let unfriendly neighbors ram themselves into a wall of your upgraded Picts. Successful war doesn't have to gain territory (I think Tsun Tzu said something vaguley resembling that once).

    With the amount of cities you have, if you can get the economy/science/hammers up to speed, you are set up well for a very good late/really late game. You should be able to outproduce anyone after t150 if you can focus on your cities for the next 70 turns.

    Good luck.

    PS. Screenshots please.
     

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