Community Patch: AI Chooses Freedom Too Often

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BH5496

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
37
I've been running some tests with CP and it seems that the AI has a propensity to choose Freedom, no matter the circumstances. I reported this as a bug, but it seems to be an intended feature. However, with all due respect to Gazebo and the mod team, I don't think this is leading to the balance that was intended. The AI, 9/10 of the time choose Freedom, occasionally Autocracy, and I have yet to see them choose Order once. I get that they are supposed to choose ideology based on their "grand strategy," but does it not seem odd that nearly every AI grand strategy requires Freedom, and virtually never Order or Autocracy? Even super aggressive civs Like Montezuma and Attila go Freedom, despite them retaining their treacherous, war mongering ways. Super wide civs, that would benefit from Order, refuse to take it. Annoyingly, tourism influence still doesn't seem to have an effect on ideology choice. Being Autocracy Brazil and nearly influential over, and very friendly with Carthage still didn't stop them from joining the rest of the world (who hated them) in adopting Freedom.

This AI insistence on Freedom leads to a lack of variety in gameplay. It is annoying to try to play a non-freedom game, but end up taking a massive diplomatic hit with almost the entire world. If you don't have high tourism or culture, you are liable to take a huge happiness hit from being one of, if not THE, only non Freedom nation.

I respectfully ask that Gazebo, or someone from the mod team, investigate this problem, and possibly tweak AI ideology preferences or something. As it currently stands, "working as intended" is not particularly fun or interesting when it comes to this aspect of an otherwise outstanding mod.
 
I've noticed this trend in the AI as well and also in myself. Maybe it's just me but Freedom just seems to be the most viable and adaptive strategy for any civ to take. Really the only reason to NOT take Freedom was to get the first adopter bonus or Ideology Wonder.

I just don't see Order as being viable when Freedom does the same roles better in my experience. At least Autocracy has a unique niche at being the best choice to Domination seeking Warmongers.

If I have this sort of realization about the Ideologies then it's not a big leap of logic to see the AI realize it too.
 
Can't confirm that at all. In fact, in the last couple of my games I observed the opposite meaning the AI often choosing Order and Autocracy and rarely Freedom; I'd say you just don't have enough samples...it happens; if you get 1000 people together to roll a die 5 times chances are that someone will roll a 6 five times in a row.
 
civplayer33 said:
Can't confirm that at all. In fact, in the last couple of my games I observed the opposite meaning the AI often choosing Order and Autocracy and rarely Freedom; I'd say you just don't have enough samples...it happens; if you get 1000 people together to roll a die 5 times chances are that someone will roll a 6 five times in a row.
Click to expand...

This happens all too often when I go to the Craps table. Back-to-back boxcars, really?

G
 
civplayer33 said:
Can't confirm that at all. In fact, in the last couple of my games I observed the opposite meaning the AI often choosing Order and Autocracy and rarely Freedom; I'd say you just don't have enough samples...it happens; if you get 1000 people together to roll a die 5 times chances are that someone will roll a 6 five times in a row.
Click to expand...
Just using CP?
 
One more sample to add, just CP, the AI went Freedom. That's no biggie, but the issue was that even the enemies of the first Freedom civ went for Freedom, while free tenets from Order and Autocracy were up for grabs. If only we can find another 98 people playing CP only, then we'd have a good case.
 
I have also noticed a lot of AIs chosing Freedom as their Ideology lately, but I myself am also guilty of it, since Freedom almost always seems to be a good goto-ideology unless warmongering or doing something Order specific.
 
civplayer33 said:
Full Vox Populi with EUI...so including CBO, CSD, C4DF, ML
Click to expand...
Well this post is specifically regarding CP standard. So I think it's safe to argue that there is potential in other ideologies that the AI sees in CPB that they don't in standard CP. Even if this is just bad luck, I still think it should be investigated.
 
I haven't observed this. Judging by G's response and the bazillion test games he runs, I assume you are experiencing variance.

Edit: Ah you are only running CP? I don't think that should matter, but there may have been some kind of strange oversight. How many tests have you run?
 
hokath said:
I haven't observed this. Judging by G's response and the bazillion test games he runs, I assume you are experiencing variance.

Edit: Ah you are only running CP? I don't think that should matter, but there may have been some kind of strange oversight. How many tests have you run?
Click to expand...
Yes, I am only running CP. I've tested it about 7 times, plus the first full game I noticed it, by starting post industrial and seeing what the AI chooses. I suppose this isn't a perfect way to test it, but usually the AI didn't mind starting late and chose different ideologies in non-modded games.
 
But like I said, in the full game I was running (i.e. starting from Ancient Era), the Carthaginians, whom I was nearly influential over with tourism, were only friends with me, were constantly being beset by other civs, and needed all the military and happiness (which Autocracy covers very well) help they could get, instead of going Autocracy like me, went Freedom with everyone else who hated them. The AI doesn't seem to take into account diplomacy or tourism influence when choosing ideology.
 
tu_79 said:
Could it be that vanilla Freedom is the best ideology overall? Could it be that the first to get to ideologies is the cultural leader, probably someone with a strong focus on great people? And then the other AI follow the same ideology to avoid diplomatic penalties?
Click to expand...
But that is exactly what they don't do (which I wish they would). I was first to get an ideology and chose Autocracy, I was the culture leader, trouncing everyone in tourism and I was either exotic or familiar with everybody. They all preferred to screw over their happiness (making it easier for me to fight them) rather than go anything other than freedom. And Order is also a very solid vanilla ideology, yet they hardly ever pick it. That's why I'm saying an investigation and some tweaks should be made.
 
My last game had a very equal split.

But idealogical pressure made everyone go Freedom eventually.
 
Same here.
BH5496 said:
But that is exactly what they don't do (which I wish they would). I was first to get an ideology and chose Autocracy, I was the culture leader, trouncing everyone in tourism and I was either exotic or familiar with everybody. They all preferred to screw over their happiness (making it easier for me to fight them) rather than go anything other than freedom. And Order is also a very solid vanilla ideology, yet they hardly ever pick it. That's why I'm saying an investigation and some tweaks should be made.
Click to expand...
 
what you talking about everytime I've played its always ORDER for the entire world...
 
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