it just doesn't work anymore, forget it
Condensed tips for beginners?
- Thread starter Roger_Mellie
- Start date
??????
I have patch 3.19 BtS and it sure does work. You can still rush production with gold by using Universal Suffrage. I just want to find the formula for calculating HOW MUCH gold I need to hurry each production.
sorry I misunderstood what you meant
it's 3 gold per hammer, regardless of your production bonuses
it's 2 gold per hammer with the kremlin, if I'm not mistaken
This is my first post. I just started playing Civ 4 and I am not sure if this question was asked in the forum. One thing I noticed when playing was that I had the lowest point total but had the greatest civilization. Does that mean I am winning on a tech or cultural victory and losing on another? I turned off the time victory so do points even matter?
Thanks
Thanks
adrianj
Deity
I think in the new patch it was pretty screwed up.
The formula in the BUFFY mod (used by Hall Of Fame and Game of the Month games) works like this example building a warrior (cost 15) in a city with forge+factory (+50% to everything) and Heroic Epic (+100% specific to military). Assume a chop of 30 hammers, and a city with 10 base production from tiles.
Base production from tiles: 10
production from chops/whips/overflow: 30
Total base production: 40
Non-specific multipliers: 50%
Specific multipliers: 100%
Total production: 100 <- floor(total base * (1+total modifiers))
Build cost: 15
Remainder with modifiers: 85
Remainder without modifiers: 34 <- floor(remainder/(1+mods))
Remainder given as overflow: 10 <- equal to base production from tiles
What's left: 24
Add back non-specific multipliers: 36.
You get 36
in this situation.
So it still works, but the 'specific' bonus from the Heroic Epic doesn't help, i.e., you can get the same result by simply building wealth.
Other 'specific' bonuses would be resource bonuses (eg, stone into walls) and Leader trait bonuses (eg, protective walls, expansive granaries).
The formula in the BUFFY mod (used by Hall Of Fame and Game of the Month games) works like this example building a warrior (cost 15) in a city with forge+factory (+50% to everything) and Heroic Epic (+100% specific to military). Assume a chop of 30 hammers, and a city with 10 base production from tiles.
Base production from tiles: 10
production from chops/whips/overflow: 30
Total base production: 40
Non-specific multipliers: 50%
Specific multipliers: 100%
Total production: 100 <- floor(total base * (1+total modifiers))
Build cost: 15
Remainder with modifiers: 85
Remainder without modifiers: 34 <- floor(remainder/(1+mods))
Remainder given as overflow: 10 <- equal to base production from tiles
What's left: 24
Add back non-specific multipliers: 36.
You get 36
in this situation.So it still works, but the 'specific' bonus from the Heroic Epic doesn't help, i.e., you can get the same result by simply building wealth.
Other 'specific' bonuses would be resource bonuses (eg, stone into walls) and Leader trait bonuses (eg, protective walls, expansive granaries).
adrianj
Deity
Points never matter, unless time is an issue. So in your case, completely irrelevant.
It *does* sometimes matter with AI relations. Sometimes (with some AI) there is a hidden diplomacy modifier if you are higher or lower ranked on the scoreboard compared to an AI. But 99.9% of the time you wouldn't be concerned by it at a beginner level.
I like it how you said you "had the greatest civilization"
IMO, right from turn 0 I have the greatest civilization, and the AIs just don't know it yet 
Edit: Perhaps you were the "greatest" in some historian's "Most Advanced Civilization" popup? In these cases it is referring to a specific aspect of your empire, eg, wealthiest (most gold at the time), most powerful, most advanced, largest, etc. Again, points don't matter in this regard.
there is a big penalty for rushing wonders, but I don't know exactly.
There is a bigger penalty for world wonders and a smaller one for national wonders.
adrianj
Deity
I looked into the penalties of rushing wonders and it isn't consistent for every wonder.
Eg, on Normal speed, standard sized map, rushing the Three Gorges Dam costs 9/
.
Rushing the National Park national wonder costs 4.5/.
Rushing the Taj Mahal costs 6/.
Perhaps it is related to the era of the wonder?
Eg, on Normal speed, standard sized map, rushing the Three Gorges Dam costs 9
/.Rushing the National Park national wonder costs 4.5
/.Rushing the Taj Mahal costs 6
/.Perhaps it is related to the era of the wonder?
MadmanAtW
Knight
Keep in mind that it was noted upstream that national and world wonders get different penalties, so that explains the difference between the National Park and the other two. As for the other two, there's also a penalty for rushing something you have put no hammers into yet, which I believe stacks with the overall wonder penalty- could that be part of it? Alternately, did the Kremlin become involved (the ratio between your 3 Gorges and your Taj is exactly what you would expect if the latter was rushed while the Kremlin was in your hands.)
adrianj
Deity
Nope. I tested all this out in game before I posted it. I did not have the Kremlin, and in all cases I had invested at least one hammer.
MadmanAtW
Knight
Well then, you got me. The age of the wonder is an interesting possibility. Does anyone know?
XML/Buildings/CIV4BuildingInfos.xml has the hurry modifiers for each building (%). It's +300 for UN, AP and Space Elevator. +200 for Kremlin, Eiffel Tower, Broadway, SoL, Rock&Roll, Hollywood, 3GD and Pentagon. +100 for the rest of the world wonders. +50 (4,5 / ) for national wonders.
/ ) for national wonders.Infantry#14
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,601
what is the game mechanics for open borders? So if i open my border with a smaller civ, do i get more or less benefit than the ai? What about a bigger civ? What determines which of my city gets foreign trade routes?
Also, when I chooses the option "open trade routes with all foreign civ" in the UN, it seems like it's not working b/c I still see a lot of domestic trades. Is this because all other ai running mercantilism?
Also, when I chooses the option "open trade routes with all foreign civ" in the UN, it seems like it's not working b/c I still see a lot of domestic trades. Is this because all other ai running mercantilism?
adrianj
Deity
'benefit' for OB depends on how you use it.
If you're scoping their lands out so you know where their troops and resources are in preparation for war then I'd say you are getting good use out of it. How or if the AI does this I have no idea..
As for trade routes, OB with a larger civ would give you more trade routes, so for you that would be a better deal.
When it comes to foreign trade routes - you will only get one trade route to each foreign city. Whereas with your local trade routes, they can be replicated many times.
Eg, consider a simple scenario where you have 4 cities each with 2 trade routes and the AI has 2 cities.
You have 8 trade routes total, 2 of them will be with the AI cities, the remaining 6 will go to your own cities.
The game automatically assigns trade routes to the cities so that you get the most benefit. Eg, if the AI has a huge city with a much more valuable trade route, it will likely go to the city of yours that is also very large, or has the most trade multipliers like harbour or Temple of Artemis.
themaelstorm
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2009
- Messages
- 37
Greetings from a civ4 and forum newbie
First of all, I must commend the forum and the community. Very mature and full of information! However, with so much info running around, I've found myself drowned in it
Anyway, I have decided to play the game (instead of setting a game on least difficulty and winning no matter what happens
) and increased my difficulty to.. WARLORD!! hehe. It's been a challenge so far, quite different from easiest (barbarians that actually attack? wow!).
I've been reading around and I will be doing that for quite a while but have a few questions myself.
First, I'll ask something that is answered on a few guides, but it seems everyone has their own idea in this, so I wanted to hear some more.
How do you choose your win type? Do you decide it and pick a civ according to that? If not, what makes you decide it? The starter zone? Do you play a bit to decide it? I know that higher difficulty means even earlier planning too.
Second, this new espionage with BtS confused me alot. I keep getting spy messages. I used spies a few times myself. From what I see, if the spy is very succesful, then he returns to the capital. If he is caught, there is still a chance that he may have completed the mission. But either case, I never spotted "You used a spy" message in the diplomacy box. Are spies to be constantly used now? Or how constant would you say?
Third, as a person who's getting used to actually playing the game, is using any game options would be more fitting? Currently I'm playing Huge, Temperate Shuffled/Continents maps without touching the number of leaders. I either get a random leader or pick one myself (usually ones with peaceful traits and with hunting if possible).
Fourth, any winning conditions are -generally- easier than the rest? Or harder? I know there are lots of variables included, but still! (obvious noob;P)
Feel free to pass any questions if you think there are enough answers around, I'm still stalking forums and articles (so much to read!). Thanks in advance.
First of all, I must commend the forum and the community. Very mature and full of information! However, with so much info running around, I've found myself drowned in it
Anyway, I have decided to play the game (instead of setting a game on least difficulty and winning no matter what happens
) and increased my difficulty to.. WARLORD!! hehe. It's been a challenge so far, quite different from easiest (barbarians that actually attack? wow!).I've been reading around and I will be doing that for quite a while but have a few questions myself.
First, I'll ask something that is answered on a few guides, but it seems everyone has their own idea in this, so I wanted to hear some more.
How do you choose your win type? Do you decide it and pick a civ according to that? If not, what makes you decide it? The starter zone? Do you play a bit to decide it? I know that higher difficulty means even earlier planning too.
Second, this new espionage with BtS confused me alot. I keep getting spy messages. I used spies a few times myself. From what I see, if the spy is very succesful, then he returns to the capital. If he is caught, there is still a chance that he may have completed the mission. But either case, I never spotted "You used a spy" message in the diplomacy box. Are spies to be constantly used now? Or how constant would you say?
Third, as a person who's getting used to actually playing the game, is using any game options would be more fitting? Currently I'm playing Huge, Temperate Shuffled/Continents maps without touching the number of leaders. I either get a random leader or pick one myself (usually ones with peaceful traits and with hunting if possible).
Fourth, any winning conditions are -generally- easier than the rest? Or harder? I know there are lots of variables included, but still! (obvious noob;P)
Feel free to pass any questions if you think there are enough answers around, I'm still stalking forums and articles (so much to read!). Thanks in advance.
CornPlanter
Emperor
Welcome And yes, civ community is about the best gamers community I've ever seen. Probably because its a complicated game for mature people
Its just that its only that - general idea, not a strict goal. It can change depending on circumstances. For starters, its best to always go for domination in the first 2/3 of the game. Later you can decide if you like to continue this way or switch to Space. Culture victories are quite a different game and I wouldnt recommend it for beginners (they are not harder, just quite different).
). People say Apostolic Palace is very easy but I personally lack skill in this area. Should learn myself one day.
And yes, civ community is about the best gamers community I've ever seen. Probably because its a complicated game for mature people At the later stages of the game you can pretty much see which way is the best/easiest. On the other hand, when you start the game you have a general idea too, depending on leader, map type or even current mood
Its just that its only that - general idea, not a strict goal. It can change depending on circumstances. For starters, its best to always go for domination in the first 2/3 of the game. Later you can decide if you like to continue this way or switch to Space. Culture victories are quite a different game and I wouldnt recommend it for beginners (they are not harder, just quite different). I find Culture easiest but you need to understand diplomacy first and that takes time and experience. Other than that, Diplomacy in Realpolitik way is very easy (Realpolitik is when AI vote for you not because they feel charitable towards you but because they are your vassals
). People say Apostolic Palace is very easy but I personally lack skill in this area. Should learn myself one day.From personal experience, I'd recoomend to play Standard size maps first. Less stuff to worry about, easier to learn. Quicker games, e.g. you can play many more games within the same time, means more experience
I usually decide about mid way in the game, at the begining of the game you should just be focussing on setting yourself a solid base, which would involve getting a decent number (i would think at least 8) of good cities, a couple of these should be production powerhouses, and most of the others commerce cities. (Maybe 3 & 5). If i have close neighbours i like to kill them in the BC era and keep their capitals for myself. This really will put you on a solid footing as you would effectively have two capital city sites. (Read Sisutil's guide to rushing if interested). In the mid game you assess the situation to see if a military conquest seems feasible, if not space & culture are always fallback options where you turtle up and follow that victory path.
I would'nt worry too much about espionage right now, actually you should probably get the other more important areas of your game right and you can then use espionage to compliment this (just my opinion because there is so much to learn in this game, and i think espionage can wait)
I would recommend standard map size & continents / fractal maps - Be warned that shuffle can give you isolated starts which can be really challenging as a newbie.
ChrisFromLux
former 'Misfit'
I decide this before even starting the game. Sometimes, I decide on the victory first and then I pick a leader that 'fits', the other times, I pick the leader first.
It also depends on what game(s) I played before: if I just finished a war-heavy game (Conquest, Domination or Vassal-Diplomacy), I often play a more peaceful game next.
I rarely use spies. If I use some, it's mainly to station them in my border cities and my capital to avoid AI-Spies completing their missions.
But as Shafi said before, you do not really have to use them at the beginning. The AI usually only poisons your water, which is not that bad, or it steals a few techs, which isn't important either if you have a good tech-lead.
As a newbie, I would pick small or standard maps, because they are easier to play. Less opponents means Diplomacy is w whole lot easier, you can usually pick a side. And you have less AIs to care about concerning religions, wonders, liberalism and, of course, wars (offensive and defensive)
As you said, this is very hard to answer, but I'll try ...
IMHO, Space Race is the easiest victory condition. It requires you to use all aspects of the game, without having to use them all. For example, you can go to war, but you can also play peacefully. You can make friends and trade a lot with them, but you can also learn most of the techs yourself. You can rush an opponent early, but you can also wait until you have a tech-advantage and then take his improved cities ...
Culture is the hardest victory, because if you play it the 'normal' way, you will shut down research around Liberalism and you may be surprised by a DOW with Riflemen, Cannons, Cavalry, or worse, while you have warriors and archers and only 1 per city, to lower your costs in Pacifism.
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