Congratulations to CFC for getting us FREE DLC! (the mongols)

But the best point is that they probably have most of it finished already and lying in a drawer and thus multiplying their profit on the game tenfold.
Which is okay - dont get me wrong - but the DLC price should be in a region where we dont even have to start discussing it. Running with my scenario 2$ would still be raking in the cash without giving the buyer a headache.

Regarding your analysis of the time it would take - I think you grossly underestimate how difficult and time consuming it is to do a lot of those things. I have done many of the things on the list at some point. Most not professionally, but some. I have talked to one of the artists who worked on Civ4. I talked to the producer of Alien vs Predator (the game, not the movie). A friend worked at Warthog studios (developed a bunch of games, including Richard Burns Rally). A classmate's cousin works at Starbreeze Studios. Myself and a friend have both applied at Paradox Interactive (developers of Hearts of Iron series) for job positions, though that was long time ago. :)

What surprised me was just how insanely time consuming things are to do. Even small stuff people think is easy can be a very large, complex, time consuming task. You have to be thoughtful and meticulous when doing commercial quality work.

I wish we could hear from some of the Civ5 developers (or other professionals) on this. It may humble your opinions.

Regarding what you wrote in what I quoted above - I can only agree with that the price should be lower. More would buy it, more would be more positive towards Civ5 as an experience, there would be more multiplayer, more playing period, more word of mouth, more goodwill, more open minds to DLC.
 
There's an old saying: 'A fool and his money are soon parted'

I was a fool buying the main game, they can stick their DLC where the sun don't shine.
 
So is the Khan like a replacement for the GG or something? I'm confused.

Also any body know when this comes out?
 
Regarding your analysis of the time it would take - I think you grossly underestimate how difficult and time consuming it is to do a lot of those things.

He claimed it only took one day to compose an several pieces of music to fit the moods of an ancient civilization, and only an hour to schedule a studio, sound engineers, and musicians, have them rehearse, record, produce and polish several pieces of music.

After I read that I honestly thought he was joking. He...he wasn't?
 
He claimed it only took one day to compose an several pieces of music to fit the moods of an ancient civilization, and only an hour to schedule a studio, sound engineers, and musicians, have them rehearse, record, produce and polish several pieces of music.

After I read that I honestly thought he was joking. He...he wasn't?

Srs buziness.
 
This does not work. I don't mean in some lame "its not fair" sense, but charging to increase in-game power makes people angry and stop paying anything at all. The system that actually appears to generate more revenue seems to be charging for powerful items but allowing access to those items for non-paying customers as well, e.g. through grinding and P2P trade. This sort of system isn't really applicable here unfortunately.

I should point out that I meant "good" civs in a more broad sense than powerful Civs. Babylon was the cradle of Civilization. In that sense, they could be a popular Civ to get (as opposed to the Iroquois, which I love being included, but many people despise). I almost see it like iTunes charging more for premium songs (yes, there were people who were outraged, but the extra amount balanced it out). P2P is a flawed argument. Those who don't want to pay for it won't pay for it. Security lock outs to prevent them from using pirated stuff is the only real way for it to work.

Personally, I still feel $2.50 makes sense for most civs. But considering the uproar for those who bought the premium edition if they made it that cheap so soon, $5 seems fair for Babylon. I feel the quality of the Civ, the coolness of Nebuchadnezzar in the game, the significance of Babylon, and the fact that many strategies discussed involve using him help justify the higher price for him. If I'm wrong, they'll drop the price (and, by then, enough time will have passed to make it fair for Deluxe edition people).
 
There are 18 leaders in the original game. Each is asigned a leader index between 0 and 20 (21 spots).
That leaves 3 spots un used, which are ,"3", "10", and "14"
Alphabetically:
3 falls between Aztec and China (Babylon)
10 falls between Greece and India (Inca)
14 falls between Japan and Ottomans (Mongolia)

Given the quotes pre-release about the "Quecha" language... is it out of line to suspect that the Inca might be the target for the next released Civ?

That's some reasonable analysis.
South America is the only continent without a civ now, so Inca is very likely to be the next DLC civ. I totally agree.
 
As I said earlier, I'm praying for a Spain/Inca double release. But I do suspect that Babylon, Mongolia, and Inca were Civs that have been developed while the rest of the game was polished in order to plan for first DLC.
 
I should point out that I meant "good" civs in a more broad sense than powerful Civs. Babylon was the cradle of Civilization. In that sense, they could be a popular Civ to get (as opposed to the Iroquois, which I love being included, but many people despise). I almost see it like iTunes charging more for premium songs (yes, there were people who were outraged, but the extra amount balanced it out). P2P is a flawed argument. Those who don't want to pay for it won't pay for it. Security lock outs to prevent them from using pirated stuff is the only real way for it to work.

Ah ok, I thought you just meant more powerful.

P2P trading works really well for items in MMO-style games, but I can't think of an equivalent for a strategy game that makes sense. Maybe allow anyone in a MP game with the purchaser of a DLC civ to use the civ, but the purchaser gets right of first refusal? I don't mean P2P in the sense of torrents for piracy, if that is what you thought?

Btw, Sumer was around long before Babylon. :)
 
Actually, the historians mention that Alexander's horse died and he named a city after him (to go with the 100 cities named after the person, you get one named after the horse).

EDIT: This thread is too fast to keep up. Re: Sumeria. Since Ur isn't a city-state (and Ziggarats aren't Babylonian UBs), they might include them as well. Same area, same general picture in popular imagination, though.
 
You do know that no one actually knows how that language was spoken? And thats just one example. Maya, Incan, Aztec.

You do realize that there are still a lot of native Nahuatl speakers right? Now, contrary to what people claim, I have to believe that the language has evolved since Montezuma's time but still....not a bad start.....
 
Hey, free stuff, cool!! I'll take a side of delicious Mongols with my freshly-patched AI and diplomacy, thanks Jon! :D

(PS: Is it complaining if you appreciate the free drink the restaurant gave you, but still aren't thrilled that they overcooked your steak?) ;)

Actually. Here in Wyoming, you get your steak overcooked, it's a hanging offense.
 
You're failing to take into account the difference in market size. Take your $2.78 cost per player per civ figure, but suppose that only 10% of the people who buy Civ V will choose to buy the DLC. Then to keep the price per player per civ the same, they'll need to sell it at ten times the price, so $27.80 is the price that "makes sense."

It should be readily apparent that I am looking at it from the point of view of the consumer. The arbitrary ways in which prices are affixed to goods do not concern me, I am merely comparing the value which the individual user gets from the original purchase to that gained from any DLC. To put it simply, it makes very little sense for the consumer to pay 10% the cost of the original game to get the equivalent of, say, 1% of its content (measured in comparative labour-costs, for lack of any other objective measure of value).

Incidentally, if you do insist on looking at the salesperson's point of view, then you must consider the comparative cost in labour as well as the comparative revenue. If the labour necessary to produce a DLC civ is 1/90 of that to produce the game*, then total revenues must approach 1/90 of game revenues to be a similarly good investment. Assuming 10% as many sales as the original game, the price must be 1/90 divided by .10, or 1/9, of it, thus $5.56. This number is of course arbitrary as it depends on an arbitrary variable (we do not know the total time it took to create the civs, compared to all the other mechanics, artwork, etc.), but this formula would be valid given accurate inputs.

*The 1/90 figure equates to 20% of the total game development time originally being spent purely on the individual civs (a reasonably conservative estimate I should think), as it is 1/5 (the total time for all civs) divided by 18 (the total number of all civs), resulting in a time-per-civ of 1/90.

Eh, if you think each civ is worth $5, it's fine. You don't have to buy each one.

There is a difference between subjective utility and objective value. Subjectively, it is possible for steel to be more useful than gold (e.g. survival situation in which a metal weapon is needed). Objectively, however, the market value of gold is higher than that of steel, regardless of the metals' owner or his specific metal-related needs.

Subjectively, $5 may or may not be entirely acceptable; this is an individual judgment and it depends upon the individual utility of the good just as much as its general value. Objectively, however, paying $50 for 10 civs compares poorly to paying $50 for 18 civs plus the game within which they are played; this is the simple point I am getting at. This is a judgment of whether an individual action is logical or illogical, not a moral or financial one regarding the company's choice of price.
 
Not really. $5 adds up. Imagine if they released one civ every other month at $5 a pop over the course of a year. That's $30 man, almost the price of a full game or at least a hefty expansion.

6 civs = $30 = ripoff.

I like the model of having things like new civilizations released as bonus content rather than as cash cows. The usual route that game makes take is to make the bonus content overpowered so that people pay for it. It badly distorts the underlying game; frequently the game gets "rebalanced" so that you need the "optional" content to play it properly.

So it isn't the 5 bucks per se, it's that the basic economic model hurts the game experience. It also doesn't help that in many cases (e.g. Bioware) a lot of the DLC is shoddy and disposable junk, with many fewer hours per dollar than a full product is.
 
You guys are affecting me... I read the news on joystiq before I saw it here and was SUPER EXCITED about having the Mongols, as we need another terrorizing civ in the mix. I was glad to see them offering it for free and felt like it was a "we are sorry, take this while we work out the bugs..." I also hoped it would mean that the patch was coming before or on the 25th as well..

However, after reading all this negativity about it, I am starting to feel off as well... I am a sucker for stuff like this, because the fee is so small and I like to have complete things... but then I walk into things like buying new things for Fallout 3 and never getting to them... I hope this isn't a soft opening for the nickel/dimeing to start...

I miss my happy naivety...

;)
 
i saw the whole pricing thing, the DLC is 4.99$ if that's American dollars and i have to pay the equivalent in Australian dollars which is roughly the same
considering that I'm getting two civics and only paying 5 i see that a bit reasonable

but if all the future DLC are like 5$ for a single Civ and no free stuff along the way I'm not paying for anything else
come on Firaxis even if its 50 cent's each you will have thousands of potential customers (like the apps in Itunes store, or we will be forced to jailbreak steam to get them for free
biggrin.gif
)

that way making good profit could be achieved while everyone is happy

I would pay 1 US dollar for each new Civ. And all will be forgiven.
 
You do realize that there are still a lot of native Nahuatl speakers right? Now, contrary to what people claim, I have to believe that the language has evolved since Montezuma's time but still....not a bad start.....

Also, Coptic is a form of Ancient Egyptian, and there are still a handful of fluent speakers around.

As with Nauatl, it's changed significantly since the time of Ramesses, but it's something to go on. I for one, appreciate the effort they put into these.
 
Unfortunately, handful means handful. Something like 100 people worldwide for Coptic. Nahuatl is in the several thousand people, iirc.

EDIT: 300 speakers for Coptic, 1.45 Million speakers for Nahuatl! I hope this lays to rest this comparison.
 
Back
Top Bottom