Conquest 04: First Spoiler

I think that randomness adds to the gameplay. It makes you have to put more thought into strategy. And after all, it is a game. Why shouldn't luck be a factor? As it is, things are almost too predictable (knowing what the AI's are likely to research, etc.)

I'm all for keeping settlers in goody huts and wish SGL's were turned on in COTM (even though I've had no luck even getting an MGL in this game).

BTW, when can we expect the Middle Ages spoiler thread? As a novice COTM player, I'm really looking forward to seeing how well others have done. I have lacked direction and really want to see what strategy others have employed.

James
 
Having not played the GOTM before I guess I did not realize that you kept such good records of your progress. I did however remember reading somewhere that it was a good idea to keep the 1000bc save just incase people don't believe you played legally. I opened back up the save and took some pics of the 1000bc time frame.
1000bc
11 cities
30 population

1000bc2.jpg

Units:
Units.JPG

Bank Info:
Bank_info.JPG

Mini Map:
minimap.jpg

In the map I've listed the order of the towns that I settled. (15 went to the SW on the coast)
Things I messed up on:
~I decided to take out the Aztec 1st.
This wasn't prolly my best choice with their early UU. In hind sight I should have gone after the Americans 1st. My thinking at the time was to get to all of the open land to the SE of them for barb hunting. This did work and I did take the Aztec down to 2 tundra towns before the MA.
~I messed up the timing of my settler pump 2 times
~I had never done the "republic" thing as a free tech. I messed this up by not getting CoL 1st. I guess I should have read the pregame thread a little closer.

I believe that I went into the MA somewhere around 500-450 BC Not for sure though.

Overall a very fun game.
 
Danger Bird said:
Still, if it's a competition, I agree that an early settler is pretty unbalancing.

Ok, it is a competition but it is not World Cup, it's not Olympic Games...
we suppose to have fun before we compete with each other, and when better players win others suppose to learn from them... Sir Pleb and other great players are more than willing to share they game style and knowledge, But taking randomness out of the game kills all the fun period.... :thumbdown
While I agree on the reasons for taking SGLs out of the game, I would be very dissapointed if, for example, we could not get a settler out of the hut or if there some other tweaks implemented to take out random events.
 
open

4000 bc settler NE, worker road

3950 settle Chichen itza, start wheel

3300 contact aztecs. Trade Masonry for WC + 10g

3200 contact America. they won't trade alphabet :(

2710 finished granary, start 1st settler

2390 settle copan

2310 settle palenque

2070 settle Tikal

1910 settle Yaxchilian

1725 learn wheel, but a couple turns ago saw an edge of purple, will send warrior there to see if it's India and maybe bring down price of writing

1700 contact iroquois- trade Masonry for bronze working and alphabet and 21g (much better than what lincoln was offering); trade America wheel plus 270g for IW and Ceremonial burial. Trade Aztecs ceremonial burial for 50g

1650 a settler was destroyed (was sending them out unescorted up to this point)

1600 aztecs dow and burned a town to the ground

1350 contact spain - no trades

1300 bc triggered GA

1250 lincoln demanded writing - no - no dow was forthcoming

975 were 2nd most powerful nation - aztecs are 5th

430 trade iroquois math, Phil,& 140g for MM

310bc peace with Aztecs for 3 of their cities

290bc revolt and draw 6 turn anarchy

ibt lincoln demands republic - no - still no dow but now I'm getting irritated at his bullying. Also hear of a massive barb uprising near calixtlahuaca (no one on our continent is in MA yet)

170bc Mayan Republic is born :)

30ad we're the happiest nation [party]

190ad learn lit - trade Lincoln lit for polytheism and 50g; trade iroquois lit for 163g; trade spain lit for 70g

we enter MA after learning lit from Lincoln

Now for the hard part - picking up the remainder of the game after a week of vacation (and not playing any civ :eek: )
 
This is my turn log for the Ancient era in my Open class game (Part 1 of 2)

4000 BC -- Like so may of you, I send my worker to the wheat. I like the bonus grassland I find, but don't see anything that persuades me not to send my settler north, to the river. So that's what I do.

3950 BC -- I found Chichen Itza and start building a warrior. I start a road on the wheat. I begin researching Alphabet at 20%.

3900 BC -- I don't make any moves.

3850 BC -- I finish the road on the wheat and move northeast to the BG.

3800 BC -- I start building a road there.

3750 BC -- I don't make any moves.

3700 BC -- I finish my road and start on a mine. I finish my warrior and start a granary. I move my warrior east.

3650 BC -- I move my warrior southeast, into the hill.

3600 BC -- I move my warrior south and see the spices.

3550 BC -- I decide to send my warrior along the river, so he heads east.

3500 BC -- Again, the warior heads east. The worker, having finished the mine, moves northwest, onto the bonus grassland.

3450 BC -- My borders expand. I see some silks nearby, as well as jungle and what looks like marshland. My workers will have their jobs cut out for them. I continue working the BG, rather than the wheat -- I want my granary complete as soon as possible. I start mining the BG, and move my warrior onto the mountain. He has found the source of the mighty river the feeds Chichen Itza!

3400 BC -- My warrior moves north along the coast.

3350 BC -- My warrior moves onto the second mountain, giving me more info about our coast.

3300 BC -- And now he's on the northernmoast coastal mountain. It appears our coast curves west/northwest from here.

3250 BC -- I move the warrior onto the hill. I adjust my science slider down to 10% (not that it makes a difference in either my income or the turns until I discover Alphabet). Chichen Itza has grown to size 3. Again, I work a forrest rather than the wheat, so that Chichen Itza will grow after I build the granary instead of the turn before. My worker starts roading the mined BG.

3200 BC -- I kick myself for not downloading a pop-head graphical mod pack. I spent last turn staring at the city screen and the F! screen, yet somehow, did not notice that I had 2 content citizens and 1 unhappy. The luxury slider goes up to 20%, but I've lost a turn at this critical juncture of the game. To quote Charlie Brown, "Auuuggh!"

3150 BC -- My worker finishes his road on the BG and heads SE to the grassland, which he will irrigate so that we can irrigate the wheat.

3100 BC -- As on every other turn, I move my warrior. He is one square from the hill that is north/northeast of our city, right by the mouth of the second river. I think I will build a city there.

3050 BC -- Moving onto the hill reveals nothing exciting.

3000 BC -- We finish the granary and begin building a worker. I move production from the forest to the wheat. I sned my warrior toward the mountain at the source of the small river. I begin irrigating the grassland. Herodotus lists the 8 most advanced Civs and I don't make the cut.

2950 BC -- Standing on the mountain reveals a relatively fertile valley filled with grassland and bonus grassland. The gods -- or ainwood -- have truly blessed our people (I hope).

2900 BC -- Chicen Itza finishes its worker and starts on a barracks. The new worker finishes irrigating the grassland and the original worker starts irrigating the wheat. The warrior ehads north and sees a blue border.

2850 BC -- The warrior moves toward the new civ, while the second worker starts irrigating the wheat.

2800 BC -- The wheat is done, we're back to a size 3 city. I move both workers across the river to start improving the BG tiles on the northeast side of the river. My warrior moves onto the mountain, where he sees the blue people have a cow and some tobacco in their territory. But there are no blue cities or units visible from up here.

2750 BC -- I move onto the cow, and that sends honest Abe running to greet me. The jerk has Ceremonial Burial, Bronze Working, and Alphabet, but he won't sell any of them to me.

2710 BC -- I move out of America, continuing to the north, while my workers move onto the easternmost BG in Chichen Itza's territory.

2670 BC -- I lose another turn due to luxury slider incompetence.

2630 BC -- I move my warrior around some more.

2590 BC -- Ditto.

2550 BC -- I finish my barracks and start on a settler. This time, I manage my lux slider properly and don't miss a turn.

2510 BC -- I move my warrior east out of American territory. I see some gems, a volcano, and an unpopped goody hut.

2470 BC -- I screw up the lux slider again. The problem with a city that grows so fast is remembering you have to micromanage it constantly.

2430 BC -- The goody hut gives me 25 gold. Better than disturbing native warriors, I suppose, but I would have rather had a tech.

2390 BC -- I send my workers to build a road toward that hill I discovered, and send my warrior west, toward the other side of American territory.

2350 BC -- I build my first settler. He goes toward the hill, unescorted.

2310 BC -- He's getting closer. I see an escorted American settler nearby. I've got a grand total of one warrior, and he's miles from my cities, so if America wants to start trouble, I'm cooked.

2270 BC -- I'm on the hill, and the American warrior is right next to me. Yikes!

2230 BC -- I found Copan. The warrior moves one. Phew! I start building a warrior in Copan.

2190 BC -- I build another settler. He's heading toward the spices.

2150 BC -- I move my guys around.

2110 BC -- An Aztec warrior wanders into my territory. I trade him Masonry for everything he's got -- Bronze Working, Warrior Code, and 10 gold. America still won't sell me Alphabet or Ceremonial Burial, but he hasn't learned anything new in the interrim.

2070 BC -- I build a warrior in Copan and start on another. My first warrior heads back toward the capital. I found Palenque directly north of the spices, and start work on a spearman. Once I get things up and running, I'll have some luxuries and some MPs, and can turn my lux slider down.

2030 BC -- My warrior arrives in Chichen Itza, and I'm able to turn my lux slider all the way down to 10%. America has founded a city upstream from me -- it's going to grab one of the silks on first expansion. This doesn't make me happy, but there's not much I can do now. My settler heads northeast to fill in the coast by America.

1990 BC -- I turn my lux slider up to prepare for expansion in Chichen Itza, and am rewarded by being named the Happiest Civ on Earth. Hoory for me!

1950 BC -- Nothing much goes on.

1910 BC -- Ditto.

1870 BC -- Another Settler heads out, this time to the east.

1830 BC -- Guys move around.

1790 BC -- Palenque finishes its spearman and starts on a worker. I move my 2 existing workers onto the spices.

1750 BC -- I found Tikal dangerously close to Wahsington. I hope it doesn't culture flip -- Wahsington has ceremonial burial, though there's no sign they've built any temples yet. I finish a warrior in Copan and send him to Tikal, plus Tikal starts building a spearman. I also found Yaxchilan, on a hill nestled between two mountains.

1725 BC -- I build another settler and send him due west into the great unknown. My settler factory is working faster than my other cities can keep up!!!

1700 BC -- I finish Alphabet and start on writing. I meet Hiawatha, who has the wheel and Ceremonial Burial. America has all of those, plus Iron Working, and the Aztecs have Iron Working, but not Alphabet. I buy Ceremonial Burial and a worker from the Iroquois for 198 gold (I have 220). Then I sell Ceremonial Burial and Alphabet to the Aztecs for Iron Working plus 25 gold. Then I sell Iron Working back to the Irooquoius for 146 gold. By the end of the turn, I've bought 2 techs and a worker for 27 gold.

1675 BC -- Copan finishes its warrior and starts on a Temple. Time to start on some culture (plus an expansion will bring those silks within my borders!). My roving settler sees some iron and heads for it.

1650 BC -- There's an Aztec warrior standing where I want to be:
COTM04-01.jpg

My options are 1) wait a turn, 2) found in place, or 3) go around him. I decide to move north, onto the hill.

1625 BC -- I build Bonampak on the hill next to the iron and start on a Temple. It's time for some cultural warfare against America!

1600 BC -- IBT, a barbarian attacks my warrior/settler combo. Thanks goodness I sent this settler out with an escort.

1575 BC -- I move some guys around.

1550 BC -- I build a curragh in Yaxchilian and send it south.

1525 BC -- Largertero is founded south of Chichen Itza. My warrior dies in glorious battle against a barb camp.

1500 BC -- I move guys around.

1475 BC -- More moving. After the turn, I meet Spain, who offers to sell me the wheel for 170 gold. I politiely decline.

1450 BC -- I do a check of my nieghbors. Everyone has the Wheel except America, who have both the Wheel and Mysticism. F8 reveals that we're all even culture-wise. Score-wise, I'm fourth by about 20 points, but moving up (thank you, settler factory!). Power-wise, I'm slightly behind the Americans and Irroquois, slightly ahead of the Aztecs, and way ahead of Spain.

1425 BC -- Before the turn, I take pleasure in watching an American warrior fall to the same barb camp I fell to. I send another settler out.

1400 BC -- I build a warrior in Lagreto and send him off to take another stab at that barb camp.

1375 BC -- Before the turn, I see the Aztecs fight someone, but I can't tell who. Is it another civ? Barbarians? Time will tell.

1350 BC -- I disperse that pain in the butt barb camp. I build a spearman in Chicen Itza, and switch to a settler (moving my worker off the white and onto a BG so that I'll build the settler in 3 turns instead of 4).

1325 BC -- Quirigua is founded up near American territory. I'm 1 turn away from Writing and nobody else has it, so I decide I'll go for the Republic slingshot.

1300 BC -- I finish 2 temples and learn that the Hittites have built the Colossus. My curragh finds more iron -- it's not in Aztec territory yet, but it soon will be.

1275 BC -- Another settler gets completed and sent out (to the south).

1250 BC -- I build some workers. I now have 5 workers plus a slave, with a sixth worker on the way in a turn.

1225 BC -- I do the usual moving/managing thing.

1200 BC -- I move my worker onto a silk -- luxury #2, here we come!

1175 BC -- Everyone has the Wheel, Mysticism, and Mathematics except me, so I decide to buy the Wheel and Mathematics from Spain in exchange for Writing (which everyone else has) and 167 gold. Philosophy is going to be more of a horse race than I had thought.

1150 BC -- Before the turn, I lose my curragh to barbarian galleys -- but not before the curragh has revealed Aztec fur to me. On the turn, I found Calkmul to the north and start building a warrior there.

1125 BC -- I move my guys around some more.

1100 BC -- I found Lazapa south of Lagareto. My empire is getting big!
COTM04-02.jpg

With the silks hooked up, I can drop my lux slider all the way down to 0%!

1075 BC -- Another settler is built. He and his Spearman escort head northwest. We're going to try to fill in another city along Iroquois territory, cutting off their land route into our portion of the continent.

1050 BC -- I move guys around

1025 BC -- Ditto. Phildaelphia expands, "stealing" the unroaded silk. We're going to have to do something about that city.

1000 BC -- 3000 years have passed. I take stock. I have 11 cities (counting the just-founded Kaminaljuyu), 28 citizens (14 happy, 13 content, 1 unhappy), 60 gold in my treasury, and 7 workers plus a slave. I have a settler on its way to foudn a 12th city. I know all of the first tier techs, plus 3 second-tier techs (Mathematics, Iron Working, and Writing). I'll know Code of Laws in 2 turns. With 244 points, I have the Firaxis-score lead, at least compared to the 4 other civs I know. I hate to tempt fate, but things seem to be going well:
COTM04-03.jpg


975 BC -- Another settler rolls out, and I start building another. At some point, it will be time to let Chichen Itza stop producing settlers -- but not yet.

950 BC -- I start on Philosophy. I run a 3 GPT deficit so I can get Philosophy in 6 turns instead of 7.

925 BC -- My deficit is down to 2 GPT thanks to expansion in Chichen Itza.

900 BC -- Calakmul builds a warrior and starts on a worker. After the turn, Lincoln builds an embassy in my capital.

875 BC -- The settler is finished and the deficit is back up to 3 GPT. Yaxchilian finishes its temple and starts on another curragh. According to the F3 guy, my military is weak compared to America.

850 BC -- I finish a few temples, increasing my deficit to 5 GPT. On the other hand, playing with the Sci slider moves my deficit down to 1 GPT without sacrificing the time to discover Philosophy. The lesson is simple: Never neglect your slider! Meanwhile, the Celts have finished the pyramids and everyone starts building the Oracle.

825 BC -- My settler arrives at the settlement site just as an Irroquois settler does. Will he settle IBT?

800 BC -- The good news is, the Irroquois are sending their settler south. The bad news is, I apparently lost the race to Philosophy. My Republic slingshot is a failure. I switch research from Republic to LIiterature. Still, it's not a total loss -- I sell Philosophy to the Irroquois in exchange for Horseback Riding, Mysticism, and 118 Gold. Then I sell Code of Laws to the Aztecs in exchange for Map Making and 203 gold. Then I sell Philosophy to America for 156 gold. Spain, with 5 cities, 0 gold, and no techs I don't have, gets left out of the wheeling and dealing.
 
Here's part 2 of my Open class Ancient Era turn log.

775 BC -- I decide I've finished the expansion phase. Now it's time to start expanding at the expense of the other civs. Chichen Itza starts building a worker and will then switch to a Great Library prebuild; my other cities will start building barracks or swordsmen as necessary. I found Uxactun near the Irroqois border.

750 BC -- I found Cuello near Aztec territory.

730 BC -- Chichen Itza starts on a temple.

710 BC -- Yaxchilan launches a galley.

690-610 BC -- My workers engage in various tasks.

590 BC -- I finish a temple in Chichen Itza and begin working on the Great Library. Nobody I know has a tech I don't have, so I decide to keep my research level at 70% (the highest I can go without a deficit) as I go for Polytheism and then Monarchy.

570-410 BC -- I go back to building up my core, building swordsmen, and generally preparing to unleash my fury on an unsuspecting foe. In 410 BC, I have to raise my lux slider back to 10% as Chichen Itza hits population 10. Is it time to unleash my fury on the Americans and capture some gems? I only have half a dozen swordsmen ready to go, so not yet.

390-290 BC -- I build up some more. In 290, I decide the time is almost right to capture Philadelphia. America is building a road to that second silk, though, so I'm going to give him time to complete the road.

270-190 BC -- it takes a long time for America to build that road. I guess they were clearing forest first. Anyway, in 290, the road is complete, and I declare war. My goals are 1) capture Philadelphia, which is right in the middle of my territory, and 2) capture Washington, which will give me access to gems. We'll see how much of a defense America mounts; if it's weak, maybe I'll press on after that. On this turn, I capture two workers.

170 BC -- In between turns, Spain comes into the war as an ally of America. On this turn, I capture 2 worker, 1 settler, and enslave a spearman, triggering my Golden Age. But I suffer my first casualty -- it took 2 javelin throwers to kill that spearman!

150 BC -- This is a turn of getting my guys into position. I kill one American Spearman, but nothing else.

130 BC -- I kill 3 Spearmen and a warrior at the cost of 3 swordsmen and a javelin thrower. Not a good ratio, unfortunately. In between turns, I find off two archers, but lose a swordsman to the third archer. I also lose a galley to barbarians.

110 BC -- In Philadelphia, I kill 3 spearman at the cost of 2 swordsman. I capture the city, along with 2 settlers who were hiding inside. In Washington, things go a little worse -- I kill 2 spearmen at the cost of 3 swordsmen. Now that I have two silks, I trade one to the Aztecs for fur and 19 gold. I note that the Aztecs have Republic. In between turns, I fend off a single American Archer, and get an elite swordsman out of it.

90 BC -- I don't make any attacks this turn -- my Washington expedition falls back to await reinforcements. The good news is, I fend off 2 more American archers, gaining a second elite swordsman in the process.

70 BC -- I kill an Archer on my turn, and a second archer on America's turn.

50 BC -- I don't kill anyone on my turn, but on America's turn, they kill a swordsman and a javelin thrower. At least I took out one of their archers in the process.

30 BC -- I kill a Spanish spearman, grabbing a settler in the process. Spain hasn't really involved itself in this war. All they do is send settler/spearmen combos through my territory to whatever open land there is to my south. I would have thought the Aztecs would have filled it in by now, but aparently, there's something tempting down there. The Irroquois are doing the same thing, but I'm letting their settlers pass unmolested. I don't engage the Americans, and they don't engage me.

10 BC -- The second siege of Washington begins. I lose 3 swordsmen to take out a single Spearman. Nuts! Elsewhere, I kill an archer. I also complete the Great Library. Huzzah for me! After the turn, America kills 2 swordsmen (but loses an archer), and the Great Library teaches me Republic and Construction.

10 AD -- I kill a spearman in Miami (which is an isolated American town near the Mayan/Irroquois border) and a lone American warrior. I've also noticed Spain sending some swordsmen toward my border, so I sue for peace. They pay me 40 gold for the privilege. I kill a couple of American archers near Washington.

30 AD -- Before the turn, Washington completes the great wall. I promptly capture Washington. The question is: can I hold it? I decide to take some time to rebuild. I get a great peace treaty:
COTM04-04.jpg

which gives me a nice solid core empire:
COTM04-05.jpg

I sell Literature to the Spanish for 240 gold, which gives me all the gold on the continent. I'm 3 turns away from the Middle Ages. I switch my economy over to peacetime production (Aqueducts and Libraries, primarily), and give some thought to revolution. On the one hand, I'm in despotism -- never a good idea. On the other hand, I'm in my Golden Age. I have another 9 turns. Is as few as 2 or 3 turns in Republic Golden Age worth more than 9 turns in despotism Golden Age? It's something to ponder.

50 AD -- I've taken some time off since my last turn, but now I'm ready to rock. The plan is to slowly but surely conquer my continent. To that end, I move some forces around so I'm nicely positioned to war against the Irroquois, but still defended on all my borders. I go into revolution. I'll be there for 4 turns, then a switch to Monarchy. Meanwhile, my workers improve my infrastructure.

70 AD -- 2 turns down, 2 to go!

90 AD -- 1 more turn. Somewhere in the world, the [Tribe Name Withheld] are destroyed.

110 AD -- My workers toil, then at the end of the turn, I become a Monarchy!

130 AD -- Rebuilding, revamping my infrastructure, and gearing up for war with the Irroquois.

150 AD -- One more turn to the Middle Ages. I'm doing well, but I think my goal for the Middle Ages will be to conquer my continent. Wish me luck!
 
Open

Couldn't finish cotm3 due to family obligations in August so I played gotm34 last weekend, finishing it in one monster 12hr session. Score and play suffered so I'm taking my time with cotm4.

Opening play
Looking at the opening, i calculated that, from what was on the visible tiles, a 4T settler factory was possible so there's no need to further explore the starting position. decided to have the worker road the tile he was on and moved the settler NE to the river. founded Chichén Itza there, set research on alphabet, and beelined for the republic slingshot. settler factory was up and running by 2800BC.

QSC stats:
17 towns
9 workers
19 warriors
1 spear
1 curragh
1 Jav thrower (never found enough barbs)
1 granery
1 barracks

grahamiam-cotm4-1000BC.jpg


Became a republic in 925BC.

Tech research was slow as the AI have been fairly poor during this game. I traded for WC, BW, Wheel, CB, IW, Myst, and Poly. Caved to tech demands from the Aztecs and Americans (IW and writing) as I was too busy expanding early on to deal with a war.

Americans started sending spear/settler pairs down thru the empire at around 610BC so I picked a fight with them, finally capturing some slaves. Entered the MA in 390BC by researching construction, as well as having captured Philly, Boston, and Atlanta from the Americans. I'm going to keep after them till I take thier gems. Then I'll turn on the Aztecs to take the ToA. As far as other wonders, MoM was also built locally (Spain) but all others (Pyramids, GLight, SoZ, and Hanging Gardens) were built overseas. I built several curraghs but they kept getting chewed up by barbs. hopefully, i'll get some suicide galleys out and make contact soon.

grahamiam-cotm4-390BC.JPG
 
Predator


My QSC report out:

13 towns, 47 citizens, republican government
currency & construction away from MA
9 workers
7 warriors
2 swordsmen
1 horseman
5 javelin throwers
1 temple, 1 granary, 1 barracks
4 embassies
183 gold

Initial Moves:
Moved Settler NE and settled there, build 1 warrior, then a granary (3000BC) and then settlers every 4 turns till anarchy for republic.
Wasted the 1st worker move, as I didn't like the idea of irrigating the BG tile 1st and then mine. So worker started irrigating start tile, then moved to wheat to irrigate, than mine the 2 BG's and only than started roading. This made it possible to have the settler factory operational as of 3000BC.

1st Cities:
I only used CI for settler building. I build Copan on the Silk, Palenque on the coast N, Tikal near the spices. Intended Copan to have the Pyramids, however by establishing an embassy in Washington found out they will build the Pyramids 1st (~950BC) :(. So Temple of Artemis it'll be. Palenque is for Lighthouse, Tikal my Unit town.
It looks the other continent(s)? are doing well on culture, as the F11 button shows 5 unscovrd capitals as the top 5 cities of the world. As they all are sizs 6 it looks like they are not build next to fresh water. Ainwood's influence???

Science:
decided to go for CB 1st, switched to Mysticism, abandoned this after trading for Alphabet. Went full fletch for Philosphy than. Researched this in 1300 BC and changed to republic for a 5 tun revolt. Traded everything else.

Wonders:
Only one build: Collossus, on other continent.

Resources:
spices, silks (2x), horses & iron connected

Next steps:
America will fall: Gems are already mine, Pyramids in short turn :).
Aztecs are next.
Sail the seas, make friends
Libraries, Universities, science full fletch, going for diplomatic win, by keeping friends with tech advantage.
 
Open

I didn't keep a log but at the end of the QSC I had 11 towns. I was still in despotism and was still researching writing with seven turns to go on it. :eek:
My pop. was 26. I had 5 barracks. One granary. One temple.
Here is a screeny of my military at 1000 BC -
SamCOTM4a.jpg


At this point I had just upgraded 9 chariots to horsemen. HBR was my only second tier tech. I had been running the capital (with granary) as a 5 turn settler/chariot factory as opposed to a four turn settler/warrior combo which possibly contributed to the low number of towns I got compared to other players.

At 1000 BC the Aztecs are building the pyramids and I'm waiting to see if they get them. Unfortunately the got beaten to them by a turn so I didn't get any bonus prize when I attacked their capital in 875 BC.

After I researched writing. I researched philosophy at max and then traded that around which brought me close to tech parity with the other civs. The Americans subsequently built the MoM in Washington.

I entered the MA in 110 BC. Here is a screeny of my empire -
SamCOTM4b.jpg


This is four turns after I took Washington with the MoM and the Great Library which gave me 1 or 2 required techs IIRC. The Aztecs are still alive at this point they managed to settle a town on the peninsula beyond the tundra. The Americans will be quite dead....quite soon. The F.P. is in Coba which is in former Aztec territory to the south of Tenochtitlan. I'm still in despotism and haven't had a GA.

Here is a screeny of my military at 110 BC. Losses have been quite high but not exceeding the replacement rate so my horse numbers have been increasing steadily if somewhat slowly.

SamCOTM4c.jpg


Firaxis score : 617 at 110 BC.
 
Open

Going for the cow. I try to maximize pop and land:

Population:
I place first 7 out of 8 cities into the river.
Pyramids completed in 925BC.
I irrigate tiles a lot of more than usually.
I fail to connect luxuries. I have Silks and Spices at 1000BC, but Gems and Furs are connected much later.

Territory:
Early war against Americans. They give us 3 cities in peace treaty and we capture one.

Standard:
settler factory, republic slingshot etc.

QSC:
missing AA techs: Construction, Map Making, Polytheism, Monarchy, Literature in two turns. 236 gold.
1 granary, 2 Barracks, Pyramids in 4 turns.
16 native workers, 1 barb worker
2 horses
2 JT
1 Curragh

18 cities
37 pop
score 314

1000BC screenie:
cotm4_kuningas_qsc.jpg


650BC We advance into the Middle Ages.

26 workers
14 horses
1 settler

26 cities
score 445
 
Open Class

I have started by moving worker to wheat in order to explore. It actually lost some WT, but I wanted to explore a little.
Knowing the capital can make ideal settler factory here my general building order was warrior, granary, settlers. First settler was not out sooner than 2750 BC, but since then every 4 turns. All my AA settlers were built in the capital.
I have aimed at peacefull expansion as permitted, thus my further cities produced mainly warriors for the number, MP and later upgrade.
In research after CB, I went for horsemen and then republic slingshot. Traded Iron Working path with neighbors.
1425 BC war with Aztecs was fought defensively (destroying their units as they come) not stopping settling new land, until they surendered a size 1 town.
I have built some curraghs/lighthouse/galleys ASAP and manage to make first contact outside continent in 10 BC as well as some minor landmasses.


Timeline

4000 BC Worker -> W Road
Settler -> NE

3950 BC Founded Chichen Itza, MM Lab. BG, Build Warrior
Tax 0.10.0, Research: Ceremonial Burial

3850 BC Worker NE Mine Road

3700 BC Chichen Itza Warrior, next Granary
Warrior Explore E,SE
MM Lab. F

3650 BC MM Lab. BG

3600 BC Chichen Itza grows to 2

3500 BC Worker SE Irrigate
Warrior: Green Border SE

3450 BC Chichen Itza, Influence 2, MM Lab. BG,F

3400 BC Contact Aztecs, Got Warr. Code + 10 GP for Masonry

3300 BC Worker W Irrigate

3100 BC Chichen Itza grows to 3, MM Lab. 2xBG,Wheat
Tax 0.8.2
Worker N, Mine, Road

3050 BC Chichen Itza Granary, next Settler

3000 BC Tax 3.5.2

2950 BC Researched CB, next Wheel
Tax 0.8.2

2900 BC Tax 0.6.4
Chichen Itza grows to 4, MM Lab. 3xBG,Wheat

2900 BC Tax 0.4.6
Chichen Itza grows to 5, MM Lab. 4xBG,Wheat

2750 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Set Lux. as necessary
Worker 2xSE, road, S, mine, road

2590 BC Founded Copan. Build Warrior

2550 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler

2510 BC Copan MM Lab. BG

2430 BC Copan. Warrior (go to Chichen Itza), next Warrior
Founded Pelanque. Build Warrior

2390 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler

2350 BC Copan MM Lab. F+

2270 BC Copan. Warrior (fortify), next Worker

2230 BC Palenque. Warrior (fortify), next Worker
Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Founded Pelanque. Build Warrior

2150 BC Tax (1.x.x) Adjusted to make citizens content

2110 BC Contact Americans (Atlanta founded)

2070 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Copan Worker (SW road), next Barracks
Founded Yaxchilan, Build Warrior

2030 BC Palenque Worker (N Road, Mine), next Barracks
Tikal Warrior (fortify), next Worker
Copan MM Lab. BG

1990 BC Researched Wheel, Next Horseback Riding
Copan MM Lab. F+

1950 BC Founded Bonampak, Build Warrior
Worker(1) road to BG SSW from Bonampak, Mine

1910 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Tikal MM Lab. 2xBG
Aztecs, Got Bronze Working + 25 GP for Ceremonial Burial

1870 BC Tikal Worker (SW, Chop, road), next Barracks
Yaxchilan Warrior (fortify), next Worker
Worker(2) road Horses

1790 BC Contacted Iroquis(Scout) Got Alphabet + 35 GP for Ceremonial Burial + Warrior Code
Aztecs: Got Iron Working for Alphabet

1750 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Worker(2) NW, Mine, road
Worker(3) E, Chop, road

1725 BC Founded Legatero, Build Temple

1700 BC Yaxchilan Worker (SE, mine, road), next Worker

1650 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Copan Barracks, Next Spearman

1625 BC Researched Horseback Riding, Next Writing
Bonampak Worker (NW mine, road, NW, road), next Curragh

1600 BC Founded Quirigua, Build Warrior

1575 BC Yaxchilan Worker , next Temple

1550 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler

1525 BC Copan Spearman, Next Spearman
Palenque Barracks, Next Spearman

1500 BC Tikal Barracks, Next Spearman
Found Calakmul, Build Worker

1475 BC Founded Lazapa, Build Curragh

1450 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler

1425 BC Aztecs declared War
Bonampak Curragh, next Granary
Contact Spain
Americans: Got Mysticism + 97 for Horseback Riding
Spanish : Got 47 for Horseback Riding

1400 BC Copan Spearman, next Horseman

1375 BC Palenque Spearman, next Spearman
Tikal Spearman, next Spearman

1350 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Quirigua Warrior, next Worker

1325 BC Researched Writing, next Code of Laws
Lazapa - prod. changed to Barracks

1300 BC Copan Horseman, next Horseman
Calamkul Worker, next Worker
Hittites built Colossus

1275 BC Tikal Spearman, next Spearman
Founded Kaminaljuyú, build Temple

1250 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Palenque Spearman, next Spearman
Embassy Americans, Spanish, Iroquis

1225 BC Peace Aztecs - got 45 GP + Calixtlahuaca (Build Curragh)
Aztecs: Got 60 for Horseback Riding

1200 BC Found Piedras Negras, build Temple
Spanish: Got MAthematics for Writing + 40

1175 BC Copan Horseman, next Spearman
Tikal Spearman, next Horseman
Yaxchilan Temple , next Granary

1150 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Palenque Spearman, next Spearman

1100 BC Copan Spearman, next Spearman
Palenque Spearman, next Swordsman
Quirigua Worker, next Temple
Calamkul Worker, next Worker
Lazapa Barracks, next Swordsman
Founded Uaxactún, build Temple

1075 BC Researched Code of Laws, next Philosophy

1050 BC Chichen Itza Settler, next Settler
Tikal Horseman, next Spearman
Americans: Got Polytheism + 9 for Code of Laws
Spanish: Got 91 for Code of Laws
Aztecs: Got 50 for Mysticism
Hurried Temple in Legartero

1025 BC Copan Spearman, next Spearman
Legartero Temple, next Granary
Founded Cuello, build Temple

1000 BC Founded Tulum, build Granary
 

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[c3c]1.22 open

I am also going for a histographic victory- it'll be my first attempt, so I don't think I'll be able to match Kuningas. I'd love to crack 10,000 (Jason score), but I'd be happy with a personal GOTM highscore...

I pursued warmongering and tried to delay the onset of the MA (and pikemen) for as long as I could, thus, I didn't leave the AA until 10AD.

COTM04_AAmap.gif


I managed a Republic 'slingshot' in 1250BC after researching alphabet, writing, CoL, and philosophy at max science.

I didn't have any luck finding another continent in spite of many suicide galley sorties, and I didn't get an MGL until close to the very end of conquering the home continent... but I did capture the Pyramids in Washington early on and get all 4 continental lux's hooked up early in the MA.
Otherwise, I'm enjoying the mini builder phase until we learn navigation and start expanding into new territory.
 
Oh, that was the other thing. The AIs in all the other games appear to be very nicely building the Pyramids for you guys. All I got from Washington were The Oracle (after Education....) and The Great Wall (before Metallurgy, at least). I felt as if there should've been a T-Shirt or something. Still, my MGL RNG was working well, as ye shall see in my future spoiler posts.

Neil. :cool:
 
I know what you mean, eldar. All I captured was the Great Wall and the Mausoleum. All the good wonders were either built by me (in the Ancient Era, that's the Great Library, but I also snagged a few Middle Age wonders), or were built off my continent.
 
dmanakho said:
Welcome to Cifvanatics.com!!! :band:

and to answer your question - It is very important to build cities near the rivers... If city has an access to the fresh water you don' tneed an aqueduct and it can grow to size 12, if city is not next to the fresh water you will have to build an aqueduct in order for city to grow above size 6....
That alone makes a huge difference...
Plus since Mayan's are agricultural if capital is built next to river it gives instant 3 foods even in despotism instead of 2 food when city is built away from river... This is also very important at the early stages of the game.
THose were the main reasons why almost everyone moved a setter to the river

Thanks! Makes perfect sense now.
 
Eldar and Jason: the AI on my continent didn't manage one single AA wonder...
 
2 questions to Sir Pleb,

I also value early civ growth as a main factor for rapid success, if warmongering is not your predominant style.
Hence, I agree with your statement that around QSC dates, the amount of native citizens (not conquered), settlers and native workers is a good measure of early expansion (Be aware, early golden age can have a little effect here).
Your QSC result: 52 pop (assuming conquered Atlanta had 2 pop), 1 settler, 11 native workers accounts for 65 pop reached by 1000BC, quite impressive with only wheat as bonus food.

Finally the first question: You popped an early settler (3200BC) in this game, settling him/her at 2850BC (turn 23). If you would assume an avg of 6 turns to grow the city it founded, one could get a worker in the same 6 turns, or a settler in 12. As QSC is turn 81, my math estimate your early settler being worth (81-23)/6 ~ 9 workers. Include the settler pop of 2, I estimate your early settler is worth around 10 pop and 1-2 buildings. Do you agree?

BTW, this makes me feel not to bad :), as I had a QSC out pop of 56, and reached MA in 750BC as well.

Second question:
In the middle of your QSC period you had CI build 3 workers in a row. What’s the rationale behind it? Why don’t you let the settler pump do what it’s good at, producing settlers, and have other cities build the workers. I agree that CI can produce a worker every 2 turns, and a river city needs 4 turns, but is this worth it?
 
As its Monarch level going for Predator hoping the AI will help me along. Victory goal conquest.

Worker to wheat, settler north. Build 2 warriors, then granary, then first settler in 2590BC

Found that mining enough BGs meant that I didn't need to MM for the 4 turn settler factory.

Worked hard to get the Philosophy->Republic jump in 1150BC often using scientists to squeeze out extra turns of research. Missed it by one turn in Cotm3 so didn't want to do that again.

Gifted AI to Republic in 1125BC wanted them to be able to trade as soon as possible. Found that by 1000BC, they were all in Republic.

1000BC 14 cities, pop 34, techs all level 2, Philosophy, CoL, MM, Republic, Construction in 10, 6 workers, 16 warriors, 2 JT, one bought American slave, score 311. Worker roading iron, done in 4. Gold 480 (-6).

With the Republic slingshot speed of expansion becomes more important, in fact speed of city settling is what is needed. At this stage my 14 cities only supported 14 units, so the additional 10 units costs 20GPT. Clearly this is an advocation for expanding quicker, and building more settlers out of the core. The loss in commerce by reducing the pop of those core cities is overweighed by the reduction in unit support costs, not withstanding the fact that those settlers will give you more cities that will also grow.

So next time I do a Republic slingshot, I'll build more cities.

It took until 750BC before I felt I had enough Swords upgraded, when I declared on America. Boston is taken right away, Washington soon after.
In 670BC a JT wins a defensive battle and we enter our GA. This wasn't really the plan but I think it works out ok as I can build my FP double quick and had just started that. Horses are roaded and we start to build Chariots.

America is reduced to two cites but Washington flips after peace, don't want to break rep yet.

550BC MA are entered

Having played a few games with the Mayans now, I put no value on the JT. If you want slave workers, it is much quicker to use swords, or horses to take them from the enemy. I found that whenever I got a barb camp, I could not get the JT's there quick enough.
 
killerloop said:
You popped an early settler (3200BC) in this game, settling him/her at 2850BC (turn 23). If you would assume an avg of 6 turns to grow the city it founded, one could get a worker in the same 6 turns, or a settler in 12. As QSC is turn 81, my math estimate your early settler being worth (81-23)/6 ~ 9 workers. Include the settler pop of 2, I estimate your early settler is worth around 10 pop and 1-2 buildings. Do you agree?
Yes I do, that seems about the right number. As you say, "around 10". There are a few ways to look at it so I don't think a precise number is possible. A few ways the bonus settler's city might be played:

1) Just let it grow, no granary, no settlers produced. It grows every 7 turns. (You used a divisor of 6, I'm guessing as an average, allowing for a granary built a while after the city was founded.) (80-23)/7 = 8, +1 for the city tile = 9. (BTW, I think QSC end is turn number 80 not 81.)

2) Start by building a granary. The granary would probably finish just before size 4. So that would be 21 turns growing at 7 turns/citizen, then the rest of the QSC period at 4 turns/citizen. The total that way would be 13 pop.

3) The city builds settlers as fast as it can, and each of them founds a city which does the same. I.e. the "settler flood" approach. Not practical on this map for very long but as a theoretical comparison, supposing that each settler takes 3 turns to reach a new river location before beginning its own flood, I estimate 8 cities at turn 80 and a total population of 16.

An amusing thing about my goody hut settler BTW: He reached the place I wanted him to settle three turns before he actually settled. He frittered away those three turns waiting for an American warrior to move away. I didn't want to risk founding an undefended city directly beside a military unit, it might have provided too great a temptation for America to go to war.

killerloop said:
Second question:
In the middle of your QSC period you had CI build 3 workers in a row. What’s the rationale behind it? Why don’t you let the settler pump do what it’s good at, producing settlers, and have other cities build the workers. I agree that CI can produce a worker every 2 turns, and a river city needs 4 turns, but is this worth it?
That was right after CI built its granary and first settler. One turn after finishing the first settler here's how Chichen Itza looked:

sirplebc04-1xa.jpg


At this point I could have CI finish a settler in four turns, at the point of growing from size six. And it would then run as a 5.0 to 7.0 settler factory. To do this it would have to use the mined BG the worker is on for part of that cycle, taking the use of that tile away from Copan.

To me it seemed better to get some workers out improving the situation. I had another city about to be founded by the already produced settler. My one worker was going to be a bottleneck trying to keep up with three towns, one of which had a granary. I decided to produce workers on a 4.5 to 5.5 cycle, mine some of the immediate area, and restart settler production as soon as Chichen Itza became able to produce them on the 4.5 to 6.5 cycle.

After producing three workers Chichen Itza looked like this and I figured it was finally time to go into settler pump mode:

sirplebc04-1xb.jpg


A couple of related thoughts: Early workers can be quite valuable because they are useful for more turns, a kind of leveraging. And overall I favour producing workers from cities with granaries and a food bonus, the population loss is replaced more quickly.
 
Earlier today, I posted on the Second Spoiler thread about how similar my map of the other continent looked to SirPleb's entering the IA. The post was about how differently the other continent turned out in different people's games. I also commented on how different our home continent's maps looked.

This is my first GOTM/COTM and I really hadn't kept QSC stats. I only remembered to make the suggested 1000BC save in 975BC. Since then, I have started to use CivAssist (which is great, thanks again ainwood!). So I decided to compare my 975 BC stats/map to SirPleb's QSC stats/map when I got home tonight to see where I could improve in future games. I was mainly looking to compare city placement (one of my weaknesses).

However, it was the size of SirPleb's cities and his QSC stats that really floored me. I don't expect to medal in this game, unless it's for lowest scoring Domination victory (BTW, there is a cash prize for that, isn't there?). But I was feeling good having gotten to this point not entering a war I was unprepared for and having 12 productive cities. Those cities had a total population of only 26 (compared to SirPleb's 54) and I had 7 workers (compared to 11). I know that I had no horsemen and don't think I had built a javelin thrower by this point either. My miltary units were mainly spearmen (being overly defensive-minded is another weakness).

The killer was seeing a size 7 city where there was no river! I didn't get Construction/Acqueducts until 590BC.

All-in-all, I'm still satisfied with my gameplay thus far. I did have the most cities and top Firaxis score on the continent by this point, a lead I have yet to relinquesh. Previously, I'd only won one game against the AI at monarch level and had never played on a large map. I'm having fun with this game and learning a lot. Who could ask for more?

Hats off again to SirPleb's awesome gameplay and for sharing his "secrets" with us!
 
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