Constituional changes

[Strider]

(B)= Area I'm talking about is bolded above. Same with (I) & (U).

* Science Department

1. Organize tech research queue.
2. Organize tech trades.
3. Organize tech espionage.


* Trade Department

1. Organize trade deals.
2. Track the status and expiration of established deals.

I believe the trade department and the science department should share this power(B). If we force the departments to work together we might get stuff done AlOT easier.

* Domestic Department

1. Organize decisions about settler placement.
2. Organize decisions about wonder building.
3. Organize the science/tax/luxury rate.
4. Organize departmental and provincial budgets.
5. Governor of cities that do not have a provincial governor.
6. Call a Mobilization Council Vote to determine if the economy should be mobilized.
7. Organize mapping of Provincial Borders.

The Science Leader should be able to change the Sci rate(B), BUT the domestic department can override this at any time.

1. Quorum level is 1/2 of the active census.
2. Poll should proceed as follows:
1. Discussion thread, up for 24 hours minimum (48 hours plus is preferred). Then,
2. Proposed poll, up for 24 hours minimum. Then,
3. Poll posted with link from discussion thread.
4. Poll duration is a minimum of 24 hours (48 hours plus is preferred).
1. If the poll runs into the weekend it is advised that the duration be extended by 24 hours for each weekend day. Forum participation is much lower on the weekends.
5. Link to the poll in the Poll Registry and/or Department Thread (if appropriate).

The quorum(B) has caused more pain then anything else. And Why half of the active citizens? We should already know that the number of active citizens is always changing and we will never know how many their are.

(I)Ok.... So it takes 24 hours(or 48 hours preferred) to start a discussion then 24 hours to run a poll? That's 3 days max right their and that's if everyone agree's on one topic! T/C's are about 4 days apart (estimated guest). Also 24 hours with the quorum do not mix. The Science Polls get about 16 votes in 3 days!

I did have something else that we need to add, but I forgot it....

 

[Cyc]

On your first point, which I do think needs addressing, someone suggested - Trade handles lux and resource trading, Science handles tech trading. I like that idea. What do you think?

But I think the Domestic Dept. should handle the sci/lux rate, and I like the quorum system the way it is. It's the voting population we need to change .

 

[BCLG100]

how about minimum turn rate per t/c is mad praps 5 turns at least becaus eif we keep going like this well never get anywhere

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

im all for this.
especialy to reduce donsig related hedaches.

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

I propose erasing the "stop the game when a new civilization is met" part of the Constitution. It's totally useless to start a turn chat just to finish it after one turn beacuse a warrior from another civ hapened to bump into us. If as elected officials we have not the power or authority to deal with this new aspect of the game then what are we there for. Also, the people that attend the turn chats go out of their way to attend, most of us have lives and to stop it (th eturn chat) before it even starts is frustraiting. The elected officials, along with the citizens in the tc should be able to handle the meeting of a new civ.

Ehecatl Atzin

Ehecatl Atzin

 

[Octavian X]

There isn't anything that says we have to stop. The president may end the chat at his/her discresion. It's possible for the rest of the game until our eventual victory to be played out in one chat.

I would be opposed to all changes proposed. It is the responsibility of these three departments to work together. There is no need to force them to do so.

Also, about the quroum, look into using a quick poll. The CoS says that quick polls may be used discussion is unwarrented, or due to time constraints. Quick polls have a quroum level of 1/3 the census. The polls have to be temporary changes, or one time specific changes. Examples include: city name changes, change in tiles worked in a city, tile development, upgrading troops, and changing a build queue.

 

[Great Iguanaman]

i am very against your first proposal, yet it makes so much sense, so i guess ill have to deal with it. I am ver for your quorum change to half, but do you realize thats still 40 people. the problem is that there are about 80 people, most of which signed up for the heck of it and never actually played, or got bored and quit. I think the quorum number should be 10, regardless. This way we all still have quorum, but its not such an obstacle. Lastly, i think if we erase the bit about stopping TC when we reach another civ shoulc be erased, and forgotten. This reasent TC was only one turn long. Thas risiculous. I see that the people should vote and such, but if we have a spot vote, the people who care that much would be there anyway.

The Great Iguanaman

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

Originally posted by Octavian X
There isn't anything that says we have to stop. The president may end the chat at his/her discresion. It's possible for the rest of the game until our eventual victory to be played out in one chat.

Yes, but can you imagine the trouble that would have started if we would have continued playing? at least 5 people would have had a fit. It may not be in the Constitution, but it's still practiced, it shouldn't even have to come to a vote to stop, the game should resume as normal.

Ehecatl Atzin

 

[neutral leader]

i oppose this, iguanamans point about it still being 40 persons is a primary reason. also, the trade ministrys purpose in life is making sure we get the best bang for our buck. that should extend to tech trades as well.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
im all for this.
especialy to reduce donsig related hedaches.

These proposals will not reduce the donsig headaches in any way. It is very unfortunate that the Bills played a 4 o'clock game last Sunday. Had I been at the chat rather than watching football there would certainly have been a donsig migraine rather than a donsig headache.

If you want to reduce donsig headaches try a dose of common sense government that listens to the people and not a few select individuals who attend the turn chat.

 

[Octavian X]

Do you really think we care about you, donsig? j/k

Like I've said, it is the responsiblity of the three departments to work together to achieve a common goal.

If you really want to force people to work together, a council vote may be used to override an elected official's instructions.

For example, trade and FA want to sell amphibious warfare, but science. Since science has say in that matter, the trade won't happen. However, either trade of FA could call an administrative council vote to get the trade to go through. If the vote passes, science's instuctions are overridden, and the trade occurs.

 

[Cyc]

I agree, Donsig. And that's why the turn chat was stopped last Sunday. To bring the new issues of trade and international diplomacy and military advantage to the people. We're soory the Bills played at 4 last Sunday too. We could have used your wisdom at the chat.

Here's a picture of eyrei, Eklektikos, and me at the turn chat:

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by donsig
These proposals will not reduce the donsig headaches in any way. It is very unfortunate that the Bills played a 4 o'clock game last Sunday. Had I been at the chat rather than watching football there would certainly have been a donsig migraine rather than a donsig headache.

If you want to reduce donsig headaches try a dose of common sense government that listens to the people and not a few select individuals who attend the turn chat.

You're a Bills fan?! Where are you? I'm a displaced Buffalonian in a southern NFC town, meaning my chance of actually seeing a Bills game this year is approximately zilch.

 

[Shaitan]

Clarification on how the quorum is figured:

The census thread has nothing to do with the Active Census or the Quorum. Each election cycle we use the participation level in the election polls to generate 2 numbers. The highest participation in any poll (usually the presidential election) is concidered our Census for that term. The average participation in ALL the elections is our Active Census for that term. One half of this active census is our quorum for most polls.

 

[neutral leader]

Moderator Action: SPAM deleted
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[disorganizer]

Another idea for a cons-change:
"no citizen is allowed to sell his vote or give his vote to someone for any kind of profit"

just to secure us against "indirect" party-like organizations

 

[Great Iguanaman]

dis, i agree. If a citizen was allowed to sell his vote then the richest would win. Then of course there are those who dont play the RPG aspect of the game.

The Great Iguanaman

 

[Octavian X]

I believe vote selling is banned by the CoL. Section A says that each citizen will vote with their conscience. This rules out voting with pocketbooks.

 

[Shaitan]

I think it says that no citizen may be forced to vote against their concience. This would rule out blackmail but not bribery.

 

[disorganizer]

i second shaitan ;-)
thats why i propose that change... i also offered my votes for sale at the moment, so sue me
but i warn you i will buy the lawyers to sue the one trying to sue me for that to give me the money i loose with the pi which would be about 2000-4000 gold P

(shaitan: regard this as reservation of your service on this purpose)