COTM 02: Spoiler 2: End of Middle ages

dmanakho said:
I believe it is possible but only if you have Right of passage with foreign civs.

I do not have right of passage.
If it is a some kind of a bug, than it is not general. It is something particular to that English city. My first cities that I took from Spain were disconnected from the rest of the kingdom.
 
It's not a bug. It is and always was possible to trade through the road network of other civs when you are at peace. That's a prime source of shooting your rep, when you then get to war with the wrong civ, breaking a trade deal.
 
klarius said:
It's not a bug. It is and always was possible to trade through the road network of other civs when you are at peace. That's a prime source of shooting your rep, when you then get to war with the wrong civ, breaking a trade deal.

Right, but i always thought it was only possible with right of passage aggreement and not in general peace
 
AlanH said:
That's true.

For coastal trade you have to have a continuous path of road/harbour/coast tiles between your capital and the AI capital.

For sea trade you have to have a continuous path of road/harbour/coast/sea tiles between your capital and the AI capital.

Ability to sail across stretches of non-tradable water does not grant trade access.

That's true and untrue:

1. You cant trade via a sea route in which you have to cross terrain you would normally sink.
BUT
2. The GL gives you the ability to cross sea squares and thus you can! trade over them - at least in c3c.
 
klarius said:
It's not a bug. It is and always was possible to trade through the road network of other civs when you are at peace. That's a prime source of shooting your rep, when you then get to war with the wrong civ, breaking a trade deal.

Thanks, I guess I never noticed it before, becouse such cituation was very rare. It is good to know, though.
 
The dawning of the Middle Ages finds the meek Dutch Republic at war with the mighty Inca and Mayan nations. Lucky for William, neither of his enemies had a method to reach his poorly defended cities.

The Spanish representative demands left William furious, but what could he do, with a couple of spearmen-defended cities located on Spanish borders and with Isabella having swordsmen, the knowledge of Philosophy was wrested away from him. “Get the joint chiefs in here immediately” he bellowed to his aides.

“I’m tired of every petty monarch demanding our technology and having to cower before them due to a lack of military might. I want to know what plans you gentlemen have to put a stop to these outrages,” William asked to the heads of his military.

General Grahamiam of the Army was the first to respond; “Well sir, as you know the resources to allow training of any advanced troops are not yet available. We have begun the building of the Knights Templar and when completed the troops trained there will finally give us an offensive weapon. As we speak our workers are busy building roads to the iron mine and the horse fields and soon the harbors under construction will make those resources available to our main cities. We have contacted the Swiss about hiring their Pike Mercenary units and the negotiations will be complete once we have the iron available. Until then, I’m sorry but we have no choice but to continue to yield to their demands”.

Admiral Bugsy spoke next “As a naval power, we are quite impotent, having only the ability to move our troops from island to island. We however, have seen no one yet who can prevent us from doing that.”

“So, I’m relegated to waiting and accommodating whatever demands are made,” sighed William “I would appreciate ending this trend at the soonest.”

The arrival of a Inca warrior in the west and the settlement of the Incan city of Juli, finally gave William a chance to use is meager arsenal of archers and the razing of Juli was the needed leverage to achieve peace with the Incas, and the ransom of the Incan governor cost the Incan treasury nearly 400 pieces of gold. Soon the Mayans, hearing of Juli’s fate were willing to end the 200-year ghost war, in an exchange of government styles.

Skaara, the Egyptian ambassador met the Spanish Ambassador, Don Cortez in the hallway outside the office of William. “It was just too easy this time, currency for a simple demand” he chuckled. Don Cortez was not smiling when his demands for Feudalism was rebuked. Unfortunately, Isabella was not to go to war to avenge this slap in the face of Spain. The completion of the Statue of Zeus by Spain would soon allow her to reconsider war with the Dutch.

The arrival of iron at the harbor and the training of the first Swiss Mercenary came late as rebuffing the Zulu demand for Monotheism, led Shaka to become the third nation to declare war on the Dutch. William once again called for his military leaders.

“The Zulus pose no threat to us, however with Spain have completed the Statue of Zeus, we’ll soon be facing Ancient Cavalry, I need to know how you plan to deal with this new threat.”

General Grahamiam smiled as he began “Sir, tomorrow we unveil the Knights Templar in The Hague and word from Amsterdam is that the completion of the Great Library is imminent. These two events will present us with an unusual set of circumstances. We’ll soon be able to focus our development on the military and still manage to keep abreast of the world technology wise. If you’ll come with us to the map room, I wish to show you our plans to annex Spain”.

For 300 years, the Dutch Republic bided its time training crusaders, knights and Swiss Mercenaries and positioning them for the war of Spanish acquisition. The day the final galley sailed from Groningen, the large number of Incan scouts crossed the borders near Arnheim.

“We must act now,” General Grahamiam shouted and William rose to answer then General “We shall, get me the Incan and Spanish Ambassadors” he ordered to his aides.

Don Cortez and Titu Cusi, the Incan Ambassador sat in the lobby waiting to be summoned by the Dutch leader. “I wonder what new technology I’ll be able to squeeze from him this time.” Don Cortez said with a wide grin. Only Titu Cusi was grinning as the day ended. He had acquired 180 pieces of gold and the heart of the Spanish Ambassador as gifts from the Dutch to seal their alliance against Spain.

Isabella turned white as a ghost as she gazed in horror at the head of her ambassador as it lay on the floor at her feet. “I want revenge for this now she screamed”. The brave defenders at Eindhoven withstood charge after charge from the Spanish Ancient Cavalry, but soon they had no strength left to fight and were overwhelmed. It was during the first charge of this siege that a Swiss Mercenary would defeat a charge and the Golden Age of the Dutch had begun. They had absorbed nearly all off the Spanish offensive troops in what would prove to be a Pyrrhic victory for Spain. With the cries of “Remember Eindhoven”, the Dutch Crusaders and Knights routed the Spanish defenders in Salamanca and Santiago and the following day the wounded Spanish troops in Eindhoven fell to the Dutch Knights and the city was reclaimed.

“Sir, the Incan Ambassador and his staff have been reported boarding a ship and leaving the country”, Admiral Bugsy announced as the daily briefing began “I fear our alliance will be short-lived”. ‘It’s ok Admiral, they’ve served their purpose. They were much more inviting targets for the Spanish counterattack and have allowed our troops to advance on weakened Spanish cities from defensible positions” answered William. And he was right as the Incan troops turned on their allies as the dawn broke, however the Dutch defenders routed the outdated Incan attackers and moved to victories over the Spanish defenders in Murcia and Seville. “Let’s give the Incan a more inviting target, call in the English Ambassador” William said.
The 200 gold pieces weighed heavy on the right arm of Lord AlanH as he entered the English embassy. “Contact the Queen, we’ve have an new ally against the Incan menace,” he ordered to his squire.

What a glorious day it had been in Amsterdam, William sat beaming on the new balcony of the palace watching the sunset as he reviewed the all of the good news the day had brought. First the victory in Valencia, then the successful siege of the Spanish Capital and the capture of the Hanging Gardens and Temple of Artemis, next the completion of Leonardo’s Workshop in The Hague and finally his rebuking of the Mayan demand for Incan Contact, which gave him great pleasure in watching the ambassador meekly exit his office. “The new Spanish Ambassador, has been ordered to return tomorrow and we’ll see what offerings he brings.”

The report of Barcelona falling was all it took for Isabella to offer all her gold and all territory except her island capital. William smiled until news of the deaths of garrison in Barcelona. Two wounded knights and a Swiss Mercenary were killed as the city revolted back to Spain. Only the exploits of an Elite Knight, Abel Tasman as he overran an Incan Longbow contingent and was carried from the field on the shoulders of the other knights, were able to save the day. “Send him to Madrid, I think that would make a fine location for my winter palace” ordered William.

“With the Incan troops tied up attacking England, our own troops sit idle after the capture of Toledo from the incompetent Incan defenders.” General Grahamiam offered to his staff, “Draw up invasion plans for France, I’ll get an appointment with William”.

William returned from the intensive trade meetings with Lord AlanH & Skaara exhausted, but satisfied at adding the knowledge of Banking, 71 pieces of gold and the promise of 52 pieces per year and was ready to head to bed when the General entered the room and showed his the plans for Operation April in Paris. The plans intrigued him so, he would not drift off to sleep until the wee hours of the morning.

The French Musketeers in Marseilles had heard of the declaration of war from the Dutch, but did not believe it until the Dutch Crusaders began charging the city from the overlooking hillside. The battle was short, yet bloody for the French and soon the red, white and blue stripes were horizontal on the pole above the city.

Lord AlanH of England was not completely happy with the events of the day. The new alliance with the Dutch against France brought additional gold to the English treasury, but the end of the alliance against the Incan and the subsequent peace between the Dutch and the Inca would leave England to go it alone against the fierce Incan soldiers.

At the opening of the Observatory of Copernicus, William announced to the cheering crowds, the annexation of Tours and Orleans. William left the celebration to meet with the emissaries from the Incan, Zulu, England and Egypt. He left the meeting with the knowledge of Economics, Music Theory, the promise of Egyptian dyes and gold for his treasury, all for some simple introductions and excess resources. He was not surprised to hear of peace between the Inca and English, as things had not gone well for England facing the Inca alone.

Meanwhile, in France, from an Elite Knight unit, the hero, Wilhem Janesz defeated the final defender of Paris and was commissioned as the Leader of the Crusader Army. This unstoppable force pounded the defenders of Rheems to submission and move towards Lyons.

Another exhausting trading session left William collapsed in his chair and reviewing his take, Navigation, Democracy, a couple of guest workers, nearly 500 pieces of gold and the promise of annual gem deliveries were on the table. He had ended the day by refusing to surrender dyes to Skaara and was happy there were no repercussions.

With the victory over Lyons’ defenders and the capture of Joan d’Arc, the nation of France was no more. Joan would soon arrive in Amsterdam and be assigned quarters in William’s private segment of the Palace where much hanky-panky was rumored to occur.

As the Dutch declared war on Spain and captured Barcelona, a flurry of wonder completions, Bach’s Cathedral in Thebes, Smith’s Trading Post in Cuzco and to the delight of William the Heroic Epic in Utrecht, were a precursor to the discovery of Metallurgy and the entry of the Dutch to the Industrial Age.

The clouds of a violent war a gathering on the horizon as Incan troops entered the Dutch lands, but the tales of the valiant defenders of Lyons will have to wait for another day.

Editors note: As with many others the Inca appear to be the 800lb gorilla and unlike other games, they will have to be dealt with and not avoided. Spain, France & England all seemed to be falling with relative east to either the Dutch or Inca. I'm wondering if it's poor starting location or weakness of their traits on this map. I did see quite a few sucessful privateers (Egypt lost 2 caravels and Spain lost a galley & caravel to attacks). The resource scarcity and locations proved to sharply increase the difficulty on this game.
 
smackster said:
We start off close, although SirPleb has a few more Knights, and I think that is all the difference. Note that I had the bad start, and didn't wander over the mountains, only 5 cities at 1000BC, how much difference does that make I wonder. Also I had lots of flips.
I think the extra Knights at the start probably snowballed into a larger and larger difference over time. Early flips would also have an effect - my first loss to a flip was when I got to the Inca.

It is an interesting comparison though - at first glance our invasion of Spain appears to be fairly similar. I wonder if other differences might also be contributing to the different outcome? When I declared on Spain in 10AD I had:
o Already built Barracks in 7 core cities so that I could switch directly to building Knights. (BTW, the barracks were recent builds - I try not to build barracks a long time before I'll be using them because they cost maintenance even while they're unused.)
o Gross production (from F11) of 91mt, before triggering Golden Age. This might be a fair bit higher than yours due to the different start sequence.

We made it through Spain at roughly the same pace. And I see that Spain built the Great Wall in your game, she did in mine also. When you had Spain down to one city in 210AD you had about 11 Knights. I was nearly finished Spain at the same date but I was up to 18 Knights in 210AD. I'd been using the majority of my Golden Age enhanced production (triggered in 30AD) to build Knights. Here's my F1 screen at 210AD, sorted by shields and showing the top producing cities:

sirplebc02-2s.jpg


All of the top producers except Eindhoven are pumping Knights. Eindhoven is an exception because it doesn't have barracks and I felt overall military production was high enough. It was an early case of backing off a tad from maximum military production to work on infrastructure.

BTW, I'd just learned Astronomy and connected ivory at that date. I was just barely able to gain enough speed on research to reduce Chemistry from the five turns shown to four by the time I learned it.

By the time we reached the Inca our games were probably quite a bit different. The Inca were fairly strong in my game but they didn't have iron nor horses. If they managed to get either or both in trade (or by taking iron from France) before you reached them that would strengthen them. The extra turns probably strengthened them. And I think your early phoney war on the Inca may have backfired - it probably triggered a Golden Age and that may have strengthened them more than whatever losses they suffered.
 
SirPleb said:
I think the extra Knights at the start probably snowballed into a larger and larger difference over time. Early flips would also have an effect - my first loss to a flip was when I got to the Inca.
I'm just suprised by how much it snowballed, and I did get some leaders, converted into armies. My research was certainly slower, I didn't have any libraries, and only built one Marketplace when my capital got too big. Otherwise it was Knights only and my GA kicked off in a similar time.
....
Will have to look at some other stuff when I get home tonight and can look back at my game. I'm not convinced I had very good city placement and in [c3c] I am clueless about FP placement.

SirPleb said:
By the time we reached the Inca our games were probably quite a bit different. The Inca were fairly strong in my game but they didn't have iron nor horses. If they managed to get either or both in trade (or by taking iron from France) before you reached them that would strengthen them. The extra turns probably strengthened them. And I think your early phoney war on the Inca may have backfired - it probably triggered a Golden Age and that may have strengthened them more than whatever losses they suffered.
They only had 2 horses that died in their stack of 25 that I killed in the first two turns, otherwise it was longbows and spearmen all the way.

That GA might be the crux. But I even had them fighting England when I fought them.

I think maybe I just didn't produce the Knights quick enough, although I felt I was doing it at a good rate, well good rate to easily win, but not good enough to beat other players obviously, it will be interesting to see my comparitive F1 screen view.
 
SirPleb, how were you getting 169 gpt from other civs so early in the game? I check for gpt deals all the time, and I am always surprised when they are willing to pay as much as 20-30 gpt for anything. Usually, half don't have any gpt to offer, and even trading techs and resources, I can't get over 100 gpt until the AIs are in democracy.
 
SirPleb said:
We made it through Spain at roughly the same pace. And I see that Spain built the Great Wall in your game, she did in mine also. When you had Spain down to one city in 210AD you had about 11 Knights. I was nearly finished Spain at the same date but I was up to 18 Knights in 210AD. I'd been using the majority of my Golden Age enhanced production (triggered in 30AD) to build Knights. Here's my F1 screen at 210AD, sorted by shields and showing the top producing cities:
sirplebc02-2s.jpg


You don't have to look long to see my problem. I had 10 workers (home grown) and 3 slaves, but maybe that's not enough and the late start clearly has an effect. Also I'm still building my FP, need to start that earlier.

Let this be a good lesson in development of the core, or rather lack thereof on my part.

250ad-3.jpg
 
bed_head7 said:
SirPleb, how were you getting 169 gpt from other civs so early in the game?

I've checked and these are the deals which were making up that 169gpt at 210AD:

170BC, Zulu: Engineering for 25gpt+149g
10AD, Zulu: Monotheism for 39gpt+59g
130AD, Inca: Education for Invention+19gpt+42g
130AD, England: Education for 45gpt+45g
210AD, England: Astronomy for Gunpowder+18gpt+14g
210AD, Zulu: Theology for 23gpt

The total had reached a new high this year due to recent trading.

One thing I sometimes do and did in this game - if my rivals seem to be backward enough that I can afford to boost them, I give them (or sell very cheap) Republic relatively early in the game. Once they've switched to Republic they're more likely to start having gpt available to buy other things.
 
swordsman_small.gif

Opponents contacted
English 2390 BC Via suicide curragh. 4 towns
French 2190 BC Warrior stepped up, thanks. 4 towns
Zulu 1225 BC 6 towns. Behind in tech.
Egypt 1000 BC Hopelessly behind. 7 towns.
Maya 590 BC (MA)
Inca 2230 BC Seem powerful. Even have IW. 5 towns
Spain 2750 BC 2 towns+settler

Ancient problems
SirPleb said:
The Civs I could definitely reach would keep me busy for a while, long enough that in the meantime I could if necessary develop a way to reach the other Civs...
I did it the other way around - built the Great Lighthouse, deferred research and squeezed in early towns on both the major continents, hoping to be able to have a two-front war. Two things upset these plans, however:
- The lack of salpeter.
- Keeping my capital on the now-famous bonus tile (darn those whales in the first place) gave me too few knights.

The closest salpeter was next to Zimbabwe, but my knights in Zulu country were not strong enough to launch an attack - besides they could not be upgraded there anyway because of the ocean tiles between the eastern darn whale and the shores of Zululand. So they stayed there while 2 armies of knights had to take out the Incas almost single-handedly. (Funnily, I lost 2 armies in a flip, but then got two new military leaders within a couple of turns. The first two armies were actually the guys that kept me plaing this game to the end.)

I had to attack the English to get salpeter before I could upgrade 24 knights on the borders of Zululand. This happened rather late, around 700 AD. To further complicate things, Egypt allied with Zulu against me even though I had signed an allience against Maya with them to keep their minds elsewhere. They were probably bribed with a tech - I wouldn't know because I had stopped research before Theology and had no supervision of the tech race. For a moment I was at war with all 4 remaining civs until England was removed. My ingenious 2-front war was to last no more than roughly 10 turns. The luxury slider was frequently at 60% which still gave me enough left to hurry temples at my leisure.

The Egyptians turned out to be much tougher than the ironless Zulu, having also aquired Military Tradition, and slowed me down further. I concentrated on the Zulu towns of course, to eventually eliminate the Zulu and the flip risk. Eventually the Egyptians agreed to peace and ROP and I could kill off the Zulu in peace :scan:. I then slowly ate up the horseless Maya to claim a domination victory in 1210 with 9051 jasons. It's very nice to fight horseless people: you can move faster because the counterattacks can never reach the towns you've captured straight away - little defence needed.

I wanted a conquest victory but then I accidentally made the English capital a one tile island, which was just as well because the Egyptians grew quite strong. Another silly thing I did was move my palace to Cuzco after the western continent was secured. I was curious as to how much that would affect finances and production. I never bothereed to count production but commerce was left almost equal (albeit with some marketplaces having been in place in the old core cities). The sad thing was that I now had to transport cavalry all the way form the Cuzco area to the eastern continent, which is pretty much the longest voyage possible on the map.

This was a very challenging and clever map and I regret playing too fast in the beginning and making sleepy mistakes. But at least I am proud to say I didn't break a single deal in the whole game! Ironically, the people from the two large continents never met each other anyway. I would have liked them to meet just for the satisfaction of seeing them without gossip-topics.
 
Im in a bit of a problem in my game and i want to know the best way that i can go for a win. It is 1535 and there are aonly 4 civs left, me, the Inca, Egypt, and Mayans. There is no way i can win by conquest or domination because Egypt and Inca are too strong. Culturally i am too far behind to win, also. In technology i am way ahead of Maya, 1 behind Egypt, and 3 behind Incan. What is my best option? Any opinions?
 
A couple of questions for all of you Conquest veterans (I've played less than 10 C3C games).

I settled in on the BG and built my FP in Madrid.

If I move my capital to Paris or London, will by initial core lose is production capabilites due to distance corruption?

Will those cities around the new capital suddenly become productive or will they remain useless for anything but population due to rank corruption?

I've got an available GL right now and am considering moving the palace to reduce the flip risk.

After 2 prolonged wars with the Inca, I've lost more cities to flips (3), than to Incan troops (1), including a city with 2 Dutch and 1 English citizen :confused: (and a 2 Swiss Merc garrison)

Edit: For SniperDevil: in that situation, I'd try to get allied with Egypt and Inca to eliminate the Maya (the weakest) and then research ASAP for the UN (having a palace pre-build ready to finish it). Then right before the build happens, sign an MPP with the #2 tribe and declare on #1. #1's first attack will trigger #2 to join you in war against #1 and when the vote comes up it's you against #1 with #2 voting for you (diplomatic victory)
 
SniperDevil said:
Im in a bit of a problem in my game and i want to know the best way that i can go for a win. It is 1535 and there are aonly 4 civs left, me, the Inca, Egypt, and Mayans. There is no way i can win by conquest or domination because Egypt and Inca are too strong. Culturally i am too far behind to win, also. In technology i am way ahead of Maya, 1 behind Egypt, and 3 behind Incan. What is my best option? Any opinions?
UN is the easiest, be friendly, keep in touch with tech, big pre-build for the UN.
 
denyd said:
A couple of questions for all of you Conquest veterans (I've played less than 10 C3C games).

I settled in on the BG and built my FP in Madrid.

If I move my capital to Paris or London, will by initial core lose is production capabilites due to distance corruption?

Will those cities around the new capital suddenly become productive or will they remain useless for anything but population due to rank corruption?

I've got an available GL right now and am considering moving the palace to reduce the flip risk.
The new palace will create a new set of rankings and distance for those round the new palace. The old core will have new much larger rankings, but short distance corruption because of the FP.

I've only played two [c3c] games but I'm sure that is the way it is.

Smackster
 
swordsman_small.gif
[c3c] 1.22f

Ancient Age Report

I entered the MidAges in 825 BC. Since I'd started at the BG just SE of the original starting location and jumped my Palace to the river/cow later, I was a bit underdeveloped for entering the MidAges - I started research on Monotheism and my Science Advisor said it would take 42 turns!! I eventually finished it in 25, and since my towns had libraries popping up all over and were growing, the research rate kept dropping -13 turns for Theology, 10 turns for Education, etc.

Having only 1 luxury is tough. I had the luxury rate at 10% for quite a while, but had to climb it to 20% to support my cities as they reached size 6 and 7. (This is assuming a core, low-corruption city; border cities went into disorder at this size so I had a few Entertainers here and there.) I'd start building Temples, then later Cathdrals, to grow the cities up to size 11 or 12. But that was quite a bit later.

I also took my time connecting the Iron and Horses, so I decided to go for a quick, peaceful growth, focusing on Research and trade. I was able to get Feudalism with a Republic trade fairly early in the MidAges. Later on, Education gained me Engineering, and Astronomy gained me Invention. I avoided trading for Chivalry as I didn't have any Horsemen built yet; but I did pick up any gold, and any gpt deals (Inca paid me a sizeable gpt deal for Astronomy :) ), that were available. This allowed me to pretty much keep the Taxes at 0%, for most of the MidAges. The Astronomy made the Great Lighthouse a non-issue, but I still couldn't trade Luxuries or Resources with the main continent; no one else had a harbor!

About this time I finally made contact with the Zulus, Egyptians, and a little later, the Mayans. They were still in the Ancient Age!! I researched Navigation next. Now I could trade for Maps, and resources with the distant continent, too. Fortunately the Egyptians had 2 luxuries to trade, and a harbor, so I upped my Luxury count to 3 with my obsolete Monotheism Tech. This gave me enough luxuries to grow my cities to size 12; after Universities, my cities built Marketplaces and Cathedrals.

AI had Banking but not Gunpowder, so I started on Gunpowder next. The turn before I learned it, no one had it. On the turn I learned it, so did 3 of the closer AIs. (Should have done "Show me the Big Picture" and traded it around before they learned it and traded it.) However, no big deal; I learned Chemistry in 7 turns, and traded it for the Techs I was missing (Banking, Chivalry (finally), Music Theory and Printing Press). And I wanted to be sure they had Chemistry anyway; now I could go on to Physics, Theory of Gravity and Magnetism, and hope one or more of the AI would research Metallurgy for me. I did Physics, Theory of Gravity, and checked with one turn left on Magnetism - sure enough, Metallurgy was out. Physics got me Metallurgy and Democracy (and lot of Gold and gpt); next turn I became Industrial in 630 AD.

Not a stellar entry point, but I had a lot of building up to do upon entering the MidAges, and I haven't started my GA yet. I've got 3 turns to finish Magellan's Voyage (seafaring), and the Civilopedia says UnivSuff is an agricultural wonder so I've started a pre-build for that. I'm curious to see if the fewer amount of resources practically requires war at some point or not, so I'm going for a low-stress fast-research to Spaceship and plan on not starting any wars to test this approach. Might not work out that way; if an AI doesn't have at least two of a given resource, I don't think they will trade it away, which might require war at some point to gain the critical spaceship resources.
 
denyd said:
A couple of questions for all of you Conquest veterans (I've played less than 10 C3C games).

I settled in on the BG and built my FP in Madrid.

If I move my capital to Paris or London, will by initial core lose is production capabilites due to distance corruption?

Will those cities around the new capital suddenly become productive or will they remain useless for anything but population due to rank corruption?
I suggest not doing it. Even Paris is probably too far from your developed core. (London is suicidally far I think :) ) All rank corruption is based on the Palace in Conquests - your FP in Madrid won't help much with the homeland. As soon as you have a sizeable number of cities closer to Paris than your homeland cities, they're going to be very corrupt.

The cities near Paris will be nicely productive but they're presumably quite undeveloped vs. your homeland.

If you decide to go for it anyway I suggest building Courthouses in all original core cities before moving the Palace, you'll definitely want them.

If you decide not to do it, it would be interesting to keep a save from this time and after you finish the game go back and check what would have happened.
 
Open Class

Ancient age

Development

As the MI developed, I had secured the starting continent with the exception of the tundra on the west side, which I ignored and was settled by Inca and English. France had one small city on the starting continent in the far SW near a whale tile. After I developed Knights and MI I attacked the French city. France had been squeezed down to only one! city in the northern continent due to a combined Inca/Spanish effort, so starting a war with them was no risk. The French city fell quickly and I ended the war soon after.

I had a large group of workers (20+) improving the starting continent so that by the end of the MA I had roaded and improved every square, even the mountains, which I never mine unless they are right by a large city.

Expansion
I set a few settlers north to try and grab some land on the northern continent and to secure some luxes, without starting a war by settling in the gaps left by the French defeat. I succeeded in settling on an incense and a dye lux and then I forced harbors to get a shipping route. I had two small cites on the south and west coast and two medium cities near the neck between the two halves of the northern continent. Unfortunately I did not have Astronomy, so I could not get any of the luxes back to the main continent.

Invasion
Spain was the obvious target, it was close to my core and had land and Wonders that I wanted. I spent most of the MA building up a large force of Swiss Infantry, Knights and Medieval Infantry. I gathered together a force of 6 galleys to ferry my troops across the waters to invade Spain. I had around 4 knights, 4 trebuchets, 2 MI and 2 Swiss in my initial landing force with another 8 Swiss, 2 trebuchets and 6 MI to bring in the next few wave

Around 1100AD the invasion landed in the forest hex outside the Spanish city which contained the Statue of Zeus. I had sent a few Swiss troops out to my small lux cities further north and to the west, but I knew they would be at risk once the war started.

Spain’s counter attack against my Swiss sprung me into my golden age. I took the SoZ city and a few surrounding cites before taking out Madrid. Spain did succeed in taking over 3 of 4 my lux colonies, but at the end of the MA, I had taken over all the original Spanish cities and Spain was pushed into the French cites below the neck that divides the large continent in the NW of the world.

The fall of Spain has been difficult because they had Muskets defending in their core cities, along with 5-10 Ancient Cavalry and Knights counter attacking down from the North.

Conclusion
The Spanish war has gone well. Only one flip so far that cost me 3 or 4 Swiss. The Spanish are on their heels and should be rolled up soon. I’ve had little luck with Elite upgrades and no GL yet. Spain will fall before they can reach the Industrial Age, but the two powerhouses are the Inca to my north and the Egyptians. Hopefully I can land and steal the Saltpeter resource before the Inca overrun the English.

StanNP
 
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