COTM 07: First Spoiler (End of Ancient Age).

[SirPleb]

Pretty weak.

But way ahead of me toward 20K! Looks like I shouldn't have tried for score at the same time

 

[tharg]

My first GOTM greatly enjoyed.

Moved to the river and founded Vienna.

Started building a few warriors to go exploring, soon contacted all the other civilizations.

After a bit of trading got iron working, horse back riding and mathematics, the only tech advances I needed in the Ancient era.

I then noticed iron and horse a few squares up from Vienna and founded Salzburg there.

After building Granaries and Barracks my two cities were ready to churn out units.

In 1500BC Germany conveniently offered a war, which I was delighted to accept .

Shortly after taking Berlin I got a great leader , and my army of horsemen were a godsend for quickly taking cities.

Moderator Action: Two medieval spoiler paragraphs deleted - might have removed some Ancient Age work, but there was no way to tell

 

[rrau]

cotm 7 - open

Quote from SirPleb:

What an interesting map! The crowded start and lack of bonus tiles made this map at emperor level feel tougher to me than GOTM37 felt at deity.

Agreed! I lost gotm 37, but I am still slugging this one out, so it remains to be seen if there will be a different ending.

4000bc settler N, worker mine

3950bc settle vienna, start pottery at max

3550bc Meet France, no trades

3250bc meet Germany, 1 turn from knowing pottery, hold off on trades for one more turn

3200bc Trade Germany Masonry and Pottery for BW, CB, 10g

3000bc meey Russia

2710 settle salzburg

2470bc meet rome. Trade pottery + 78g for alphabet

2390bc Trade Russia alphabet + 16g for Wheel; Trade Germany Alphabet + wheel for IW + 36g. Now I'm just down mysticism

1830bc meet Ottomans

1750bc ibt Germany demands 27g, ok

1700bc Trade Ottomand 150g + 6gpt for math; Trade Germany Math for Mysticism + 71g; Trade Russia math for HBR + 42g; Trade Rome math for 121g

1625bc Settle Innsbruck

1475bc Settle Graz

1250bc Settle Krems

1075bc Trade Ottomans 373g + 10gpt for construction. Trade Rome construction for Polytheism + 20g

1050bc Trade France polytheism for 89g

1000bc stats: 5 cities , 12 pop, 1 settler, 3 worker, 12 warrior, 1 archer, 3 spear. Known techs: BW, Masonry, IW, Construction, Math, Alph, Pottery, Wheel, WC, HBR, CB, Myst, Polytheism. Contacts: France, Ottomans, Russia, Rome, Germany. Improvments: 4 rax, 1 granary, and 1 rax that is 1 turn from completion. (at this point I'm figuring war in the near future is inevitable)

1000bc ibt: Ottomans demand 24g, ok

975bc settle Landeck

We're not even on the list of the most powerful nations

775bc meet spain (now know all civs on starting continent)

690bc Settle Lienz

370bc Germany Dow on us when we demanded she remove her workers connecting her iron and horse city (a few turns too early for me, but I don't want to send my troops up against horses and swords)

330bc Capture Leipzig

310bc Capture Frankfurt (iron & horse city)
ibt: we lost Innsbruck to the Germans

270bc We got a leader (army), but we lost Landeck ibt

230bc Recaptured Landeck

130bc Germany Razed Landeck

170bc Capture Berlin

70bc Settle Kufstein

30bc Capture Konisburg

30ad Capture Heidelburg and Hamburg

Peace Treaty with Germany. Get Nuremburg, currency, MM, Col, Philosophy, Lit, 24g and enter the Middle Ages
ibt: We're the second happiest nation

And now for the middle ages:

 

[magritte]

Tharg, going for the wheel and iron working first isn't really my style, but on a cramped map where the fight for resources is intense, there's much to be said for it. I'll have to keep that in mind. For a long while I was able to get the French to trade me iron for silk, but when my empire expanded, they didn't like that trade anymore.

 

[tharg]

Tharg, going for the wheel and iron working first isn't really my style, but on a cramped map where the fight for resources is intense, there's much to be said for it. I'll have to keep that in mind. For a long while I was able to get the French to trade me iron for silk, but when my empire expanded, they didn't like that trade anymore.

It’s not a matter of “going for the wheel and iron working” but once you can build catapults, horsemen and swordsmen you do not need anything else from the Ancient era.

I read your report and your stating strategy seemed highly suspect.

so I researched ceremonial burial

At emperor level you cannot keep up with the other civilizations at research so it is not worth trying. You should be trading for advances, if necessary just save up the gold and buy it. In this scenario I got most of my advances in the first couple of eras, from defeated opponents. Get them down to one city and trade for peace. As I said above I had science at 0% until 1100AD.

And as a builder by preference, I didn't start with the archer rush on someone which is probably the winning strategy. In fact, I had no wars at all throughout the era.

Well you probably know your problem. Militaristic Civilization on a packed board: I am a builder by preference as well, but one has to adapt to the situation at hand.

I probably should have approached this by a military build-up, but instead I tried to fight them off culturally and built temples in both cities immediately.

I guess you usually play Religious Civilizations?

Despite this unpromising start, things have improved drastically in the medieval period and I'm actually pretty confident I can win this game now as of 450 AD.

Good luck. In 450AD, I had 23 cities having concurred Germany and Rome and was besieging Istanbul. I had a lot of luck with Great Leaders including one very early on, but I guess that is one of the main advantages of a Militaristic Civilization.

 

[Xarin]

4000BC - Worker1 N. Settler W.
3950BC - Settler W. Worker W.
3900BC - Worker1 W. Settler N.
3850BC - Settler NE. Worker1 NE.
3800BC - Settler founds Vienna and begins barracks. Worker1 N. Science 0%.
3750BC - Worker1 clears.
3600BC - Vienna builds barracks and begins warrior. Worker1 irrigates. After this warrior finishes, I'll be mostly building archers with the random settler thrown in.
3100BC - Contact Russians and French. Trade for Pottery & Alphabet. Begin reseraching Writing.
3000BC - Contact Germans.
2950BC - Trade for Bronze Working & Cermonial Burial.
2800BC - Founded Salzburg.
2710BC - Contact Ottomans.
2190BC - Contact Rome.
2110BC - Founded Innsbruck.
1950BC - Contact Spain. Trade for Mysticism.
1830BC - Discover Writing and begin researching Code of Laws.
1725BC - Trade for Iron Working & The Wheel. Founded Graz.
1675BC - Founded Krems.
1325BC - Discover Code of Laws and begin reseraching Philosophy.
1250BC - Declare war on France.
1225BC - Capture Orleans. Trade for Horseback Riding & Mathematics.
1200BC - Civ from another continent completes the Pyramids. Trade for Map Making.
1175BC - Founded Landeck.
1125BC - Discover Philosophy & Republic. Revolt and get a 7 turn anarchy. Begin researching Literature. Capture Paris. Trade France peace for Tours, Lyons, Marseilles & Chartres. (they have one city left) Trade for Polytheism.

QSC Stats
12 Cities
20 Pop
1 Settler
3 Workers
2 Captured Slave Workers
1 Curragh
7 Archer
1 Spearman
2 Swordsman
5 Barracks

Every AA tech except for Construction, Currency, Monarchy and Literature.

975BC - Enter Republic.
950BC - Spain builds the Colossus in Madrid.
875BC - Discover Literature & turn research off.
850BC - Declare War on Germany.
825BC - Frankfurt & Munich destroyed.
750BC? - Capture Hamburg.
650BC - Heidelberg destroyed.
590BC - Capture Berlin, trade Germany peace for Leipzig & Konigsburg.
470BC - Declare War on Russia. Capture Rostov. Destroy Yakutsk.
370BC - Spain enters the Middle Ages, triggering a barb army next to Hamburg the turn before I kill the settlement. Destroy Novgorod.
270BC - Good turn for me! Moscow builds the Temple of Artemis the same turn I attack Moscow and the Ottomons, my next target, cascade into Great Library. Capture Moscow.
250BC - Contact civ from another continent. Trade that civ for Currency.
230BC - Capture Yekaturinburg.
190BC - Contact another civ and trade them for Contruction, entering the Middle Ages. Destroy Yaroslavl'. The Ottomons have Feudalism. Gift Germany and they get Feudalism.
150BC - Capture St. Petersburg.
130BC - Destroy Smolensk. Make peace with Russia in exchange for Orenburg, a worker & 10g. Give Russia Currency. They get Feudalism for MA tech. Attack Russia, destroy Vladivostok and destroy the Russians. Begin researching Monotheism.

 

[tharg]

Here is a screen print showing my quick mobilization strategy. Just two cities with Granaries and Barracks in: (then units for the next two millenniums). Caught Bismarck with his pants down.



This worked a treat, because the cities were so well resourced. I suppose this is really an extreme example of expanding until you have iron and horses then mobilizing.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Not playing this game seriously, not planning to submit (i will not have time enough, gotta go travel for work tomorrow) and therefore entering this thread before i'm entitled to.
(Just played to 1000BC and here to compare my situation)

With the little space around, i quickly decided to use the extra shield between settler on millitary rather than granaries.
I attacked france when i had 4 archers and 4 swordsmen upgraded from warriors.
Now in 1000BC, i am military superior to everyone i know, i have conquered and destroyed some of france, gotten tech and a city for peace and ready to attack germany.

10 cities, 18 pop, 4 native workers and a 6 slaves.

I chose not to go for the slingshot and went for philosophy right after writing since i estimated my chances to get it first after COL very small. I didn't even get it first without COL. I was able to trade myself to tech parity with everyone though. And got their gold wich i used to grade my swords.

Too bad i don't have time to play this game. As a warmongerer, i like this settup. I liked the little bit that i did play. Capturing cities is so much more fun than building them.

 

[Dynamic]

PREDATOR

Before COTM06 I always play for Domination victory,
COTM06 was Conquest for me and now I intend go to Diplomatic.

But in this game with militaristic civ and big number of opponents
I decided make agressive warlike start and make diplomacy later.
Starting position wasn't good and I choose move my settler west
for leaving mountain region.

I settled 2 tiles west on the hill along river and start barraks.
I miss the deer and growth of my capital was very slow.
My worker go to west forests and starting chop its one by one.
After barraks I built veteran archers every 4 turns.
My first archer move west and south because I saw french borders in that direction.
Second move south then west and Third move south. I surrounded Paris and attacked.
One turn before this russian scout apeared north. I traded Pottery from Russia and
Alphabet from France. Paris have 3 warriors in defend and built spearmen next turn.
At first attack one of my archers promoted to elite and after second attack produced GL.
I was very surprized but it confirms the "rule" I noticed before:
very early war with small amount of units increase the chance of GL.
(My second GL born only in 70BC after tens of elite attack. )

France was killed in 2850BC and I have GL without possibility of its immediately usage.
I slightly use my GL as scout and after I founded other 2 cities (+Vienna & Paris)
I built Army of Archers and it was the chance to know how powerfull it can be.

My second nearest neighbor was Germany. Germany is scientific civ
but I decide to kill them anyway because they are placed too close.
I attacked with army and several archers and very easy captured 2 cities
and raze other 2 (1625BC). At this moment my scouting archer located Rome territory
and I decided to kill them becuase affraid Legionaries.
Rome ended his history in 950BC and gives me 6 cities.

At the start I stopped research while I got Alphabet. After that I started Writing
and discovered it in 1870BC. Next I learned Code of Lows in 1375BC
and started Philosophy. I hard affraid the AI from the other continents can discover
Philosophy first but when I reached it in 1250BC I got Republic for free.
After 4 turns of Anarchy I started research Currency (trade Math from Ottomans).
I discovered it in 1000BC, trade all known techs (Construction from Ottomans)
and enter in MA. Several turns after massive barbs attack began from 3 directions. I remove defenders from target cities and spent all my gold.

My neighbors don't like me and I affraid I will have problems with diplomacy.


1000BC:

16 cities (8 from AI)
29 pop
2 settlers
3 workers
10 slaves
7 warriors
8 archers
1 army

2 granaries
3 barraks

All Ancient techs exept Literature and Monarchy
Contact with 6 Civs, 2 was killed, 1 embassy.

My territory in 1000BC:

 

[Offa]

PREDATOR

At first attack one of my archers promoted to elite and after second attack produced GL.
I was very surprized but it confirm the "rule" I noticed before:
very early war with small amount of units increase the chance of GL.

I have started a lot of very early war games on tiny maps, and have observed no such rule. In fact, I have had only one leader in loads of starts, and that one happened some way into the game. So you seem to be lucky. Perhaps you might consider disbanding such leaders in future .

 

[Dynamic]

I have started a lot of very early war games on tiny maps, and have observed no such rule. In fact, I have had only one leader in loads of starts, and that one happened some way into the game. So you seem to be lucky. Perhaps you might consider disbanding such leaders in future .

May be I have luck with first leader in this game but haven't with second.
If I didn't get the leader my wars would be harder and slightly slower but in this game early war start gives good dividends in any case.
I have 4 veteran and elite archers in 2850BC. [dance]

 

[Offa]

I think your game certainly validates the idea that early war is the best way to get off to a great start. My game, on the other hand, shows the problem with such an approach. I also built barracks at once with a forest chop then a series of vet archers. My archers died though without achieving anything leaving the game a complete wreck. At least it was quick: the write up actually took about as long to compose as the game took to play.

I actually really like games like this, so Ainwood, but :thumbdown: to the PRNG.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Very impressive dynamic. I think you should leave that diplomacy game for next gotm

Hey offa, you are always calculating chances to take a city right? What were your chances when you attacked? I attacked french cities with at least 5 units each time, combined sword and archers.

 

[Offa]

Hey offa, you are always calculating chances to take a city right? What were your chances when you attacked? I attacked french cities with at least 5 units each time, combined sword and archers.

My chances weren't as good as I would have liked. 4 archers v 2 spear is around 80%. As usual I attacked first and calculated afterwards, a bad habit . I was a bit unlucky to find 2 spears in both of the cities I attacked, and also a little unlucky that attrition had reduced the number of attackers for the final battle. Russia was prepared to talk peace when I attacked and I suspect the terms would have been pretty generous if I had taken Paris.

Dynamic's chances were greatly enhanced by getting to Paris before they built spearmen, which was very lucky for him as the AI are pretty quick at getting spears. Your chances would have been very good. 3 swords and 2 archers v 2 reg spear: 98% chance of taking town with mean loss of 0.74 attackers, but you obviously attacked much later than Dynamic.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Yes, i didn't think of attacking that early. I never expected there to be a moment without spearmen. Doesn't the AI start with 4 spearmen and 4 archers on emperor?

 

[Offa]

Doesn't the AI start with 4 spearmen and 4 archers on emperor?

They need to have bronze working to start with spearmen. That's why AI that start with bronze are not popular in tiny conquest games.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Yes, i didn't think of attacking that early. I never expected there to be a moment without spearmen. Doesn't the AI start with 4 spearmen and 4 archers on emperor?

Only Germany. That is the main reason why Bismarck is so aggressive early on, with a stack of Archers and Spears they are always stronger than anybody else...especially the human player (the aggression level is less important).

 

[eldar]

Only Germany. That is the main reason why Bismarck is so aggressive early on, with a stack of Archers and Spears they are always stronger than anybody else...especially the human player (the aggression level is less important).

That backfired somewhat on him in my game. He must've declared on a couple of 'weaker' AIs, and ended up being dogpiled. I was lucky enough to be able to clean up the mess

Neil.

 

[solenoozerec]

That backfired somewhat on him in my game. He must've declared on a couple of 'weaker' AIs, and ended up being dogpiled. I was lucky enough to be able to clean up the mess

Neil.

In my game Germans were fighting to everyone and they have been destroyed almost without my help.

 

[Dynamic]

My chances weren't as good as I would have liked. 4 archers v 2 spear is around 80%. As usual I attacked first and calculated afterwards, a bad habit . I was a bit unlucky to find 2 spears in both of the cities I attacked, and also a little unlucky that attrition had reduced the number of attackers for the final battle. Russia was prepared to talk peace when I attacked and I suspect the terms would have been pretty generous if I had taken Paris.

Dynamic's chances were greatly enhanced by getting to Paris before they built spearmen, which was very lucky for him as the AI are pretty quick at getting spears. Your chances would have been very good. 3 swords and 2 archers v 2 reg spear: 98% chance of taking town with mean loss of 0.74 attackers, but you obviously attacked much later than Dynamic.

Yes, I attacked in 2950BC against 2 regular warrior. 3-d warrior arrived next turn. I did't attaked twice on the first turn becuse 2 resons:
1) My first attack was successful (promoted to elite 5 health point archer);
2) I was waiting the French found Orleans (settler) because if I capture Paris before that Orleans could have 4 spearmens when found.