COTM 14 Pre-game Discussion

[denyd]

With all due respect to DaveMcW (the man is a god ) , I have to reserve judgemeny on a granary in my capital. The use of 60 shields on an island that might only have room for 5 cities seems a waste. Until I know a little more about our homeland, I'll go with a warrior, curragh, then adjust to what I've discovered. If there's room for 6+ cities, then a granary makes a lot of sense, though I'll probably build a worker first to help chop a forest or 2 to speed it along. I hate wasting research gold on happiness, so I'll look for a second luxury ASAP. Having 2 MP & 2 luxes should allow my most productive cities to work without entertainers. I'll probably follow the traditional research path of writing, COL & philo for an early republic. If things workout well, I'll consider a Colossus or GLight build in the AA for an early GA.

I am still unsure of my long term goals. This map (80% water) & England (COM & SEA) aren't really suited for either 100K or 20K wins, so that's two out. I'm not much of a milker, so Histograph is out. I usually don't go for kill 'em all wins with non-MIL civs or Spaceship with non-SCI tribes, so that leaves only the UN option which always seems like a cheesy way to win. That leaves no desirable options, which might explain why England is such a non-favorite with the HOF crowd, her traits & UU don't really lend themselves to any particular victory goal. Since I've never won a GOTM by Conquest, I think I'll give that goal a shot.

 

[eldar]

SS and UN are pretty good goals for England. There should be plenty of gold and food on this map (coast and sea tiles!), and with the double-economy-boost of seafaring and commercial, coupled with a potential early-IA golden age, fast research when it's usually most needed will be possible

 

[budweiser]

I'm planning on the early granary no matter what. More food means more people and that means more power relative to the poor AI with no granary. The ability to build a granary starting on turn one is a luxury that not every civ gets and should not be ignored.

I am also going to pack in as many cities as reasonable even if they cant work any land tiles. I'll still hope to have a few decent city sights. Then I'll work the water with extra cities for food and commerce as long as I can keep them happy.

 

[King Of America]

What about settling SE (furs on river)? We'll have 2 shields in our center instead of 1 and more workable tiles as well.

 

[killercane]

Interesting that the predator handicap has gone back to being somewhat useful. I'll be irrigating and roading first, building warrior and a curragh, then back to forestry for the granary. A safe opening for this one; no telling whats out there.

No granary early is unwise IMHO; even if we only have room for 5 or so cities the 60 shields for the double growth makes up for it after a few settlers.

@ WetSawDustDemon: Moving your worker to the hill is interesting, but your cultural expansion will happen at 3500, giving you almost the same benefit of line of site w/o wasting worker moves.

 

[Jove]

Judging by the pre-game, this is shaping up to be as competitive a COTM as there has ever been. I can't wait!

On the very early worker: I plan to watch the spoiler closely to see how that turns out, but I don't expect to go that route myself. Depending on how things shake out, we may have occasion to use that extra population point as a scientist w/o sacrificing growth. In past COTM's, even 1 turn with the extra beakers has been enough to boost research by a turn. And, I'd rather build workers after the granary when they don't cost so much food, or from another city.
ALSO- There sure are a lot of forests to chop. Two granaries, anyone? How about: London-> Settler factory, York-> worker factory. Modest military at first, develop all the tiles one can, then join most of the workers at the start of an early GA. Expand like crazy.

 

[IronKnight]

I haven’t played an Emperor game in quite some time. It is my recollection that at this level, each town only starts with 1 content citizen. Civil disorder can become a major problem if it is not watched carefully. Military police & the slider need to be used here. If I have 1 luxury connected and 1 MP, then I have 3 content citizens, is this correct? So if I grew to size 4, with no changes, my town would go into civil disorder? How much weight does the luxury slider hold? Is 10% equal 1 content citizen? The fact that we start out with 3 (maybe 4) furs, tells me that the map is setup so that we’ll need them to trade for other luxuries.

 

[Offa]

Stuckified.

Depending on how the Tests go, an I may end up pillaging my lands, disbanding my cities and sending my units on suicide missions.

Unnecessary

 

[Xerol]

@ WetSawDustDemon: Moving your worker to the hill is interesting, but your cultural expansion will happen at 3500, giving you almost the same benefit of line of site w/o wasting worker moves.

But what if the worker move reveals a food bonus? That's the ONLY reason I'm going to move the worker first - to see if it's possible to get a better location by moving the settler.

 

[AlanH]

I've released the game here, as I need an early night

 

[moondoggi]

Hi, been playing gotm's off and on sence PTW came out. This is my first post here. I normaly play Emperor and starting to play Demigod games.
Nice change of pace game. 80% water and seafaring really changes the strategies. Luxeries might be hard to get. Might have to make. Shudder... temples.
This is because of the naval trade system. If you are lucky enuff to be able to trade with a civ (need map making and harbors to be able to trade over costal tiles), if you make war with a civ between your trading partner that has cultural borders over the costal squares needed. I think that will break the trade and ruin your rep. So even if you are able to trade for lux's, it might not be worth it. Because you will ruin your rep if things go wrong. Therefore might need to make temples.

I played a practice game, cause haven't used 80% water very much. The tech pace was slow as most AI's didn't have much contact (even the seafaring ones). Seems the AI can't take much advantage of the traight (can it with any?). Ok got my put down of the AI out of the way for today. Got the philosphy slingshot and was way ahead in the tech race. Decided to gift mapmaking to two civs that were close to me, so they could build harbors, so I could trade lux's with them. Not sure if this was good or not. Think it depends on the map, and the nieghbors.

Besides normaly not going for any Great Wonders early. I don't see any much advantage by getting the Colossus unless going cultural. Great Lighthouse too with it's undesireable early GA, because with the added movement with a seafaring tribe you should be able to get contacts with all without it. I would rather wait for Magnetism and start it with our UU Man of War. To make more Man of Wars quicker. Now Magellan's voyage would be a nice wonder, I plan on prebuilding. That would make the MOWs very nasty fast puppies. Six movements! Since it is 80% water most tribes won't have many inland citys anyway. By the time of these events, Magnetism or Navigation, we can trade for lux's over ocean. Let the happiness from traded lux's with our friends, and bloodletting begin.
No use for Monarchy, will try for republic slingshot. Will not have many wars early and being commercial will want to pay for our rush builds. Build and the money will come, and less corruption. Which equalls more production and money.
So not much warfare early, except to clean up your Island nation, might want to keep the neighbors for awhile to help research. Trade and build.

I think Piu Freddo's and other early move masters is brilliant, And have me totaly confused. Need to get the ships out. And if the other AI's can,t settle. Might not need to prioritize the settlers/granery as in normal games. Also seems hard to remember a game I played were I made workers to early.

A suggestion to people who wright up reports on their games. Add at the end a "What I learned from this game". With a couple key points. When I play these games I always learn a new strategy or two, so share the the new ones you got.

Wow games out.
Ok, Beat to Quarters. Man the sails. Smartly now.

 

[Hannabir]

And, I'd rather build workers after the granary when they don't cost so much food, or from another city.

If the second worker helps to complete the granary one pop earlier, then it costs the same amount of food as after the granary.
And this is often the case (even in cotm#13).

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Situations where a worker before granary is beneficial are extremely rare. Without calculating, i do not expect this to be one of them.

First calculate when the city can be a 4 turn factory without worker first, then do the same with a worker first. If the worker delays the city by more than 2 turns, you will lose time.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I just returned from a few days at the beach and realized Karasu is a mean person .

I want to go for fast Conquest or Space Ship. I figured I could make this decision after doing a Republic Slingshot, which is important for both, when I 've seen a decent amount of the map distribution. Now, however, I have to decide Open, which will have slower research overall and in theory make for an easier conquest, or Predator, which will see a quicker research rate by the AI, which in theory is a great help to me. Now I can't even download until I've made an initial choice, which of course will turn out to be a bad decision based upon my playing style.

 

[Perugia]

Ahem. The English are far superior to the Dutch. How in the world would the Dutch ever manage to rule the seas as England can? And who cares if you can fill your island a few turns faster as the Dutch, when your colonies will be so much more effective as the English? Not to mention the fact that Elizabeth has William beat in the looks department (though it is a tough decision to decide whether to judge William as a male or a female).

On a historical note the English were so impressed with William as an alternative to James II that he was offered and accepted the throne of England during the Glorious Revolution and thus ruled both civs!

 

[LKendter]

I hate domination / conquest over a lot of small islands, 20K would have really problems with tripping a very early GA, 100K is all but impossible with 80% water...

Well this is one COTM I still have no clue what do with. I read all pages of the pre-game thread. I have a feeling I am going to load the game and stare at it for an hour before being able to decide on a plan.

 

[Paul#42]

How about just starting and adjusting your (empty) plans to what you find?

It is definitely not my strength to play according to a strict plan , but sometimes that can also hinder a good game...

I guess the value of a map to me shows in how often players have to change their plans according to surprising discoveries

 

[Hannabir]

Situations where a worker before granary is beneficial are extremely rare. Without calculating, i do not expect this to be one of them.

First calculate when the city can be a 4 turn factory without worker first, then do the same with a worker first. If the worker delays the city by more than 2 turns, you will lose time.

Well, there's only one way to find out for sure. Good luck everybody, there we go!

 

[eldar]

Well, I'm going with my Warrior->Barracks->Settler plan, then deciding if a Granary's worth it. And don't come crying when we discover Temujin across the way with a big pointy stick!

 

[Jove]

Arrrr, time to end all doubt about these nagging questions. Have fun everyone. Ahoy!