COTM 14 Pre-game Discussion

[WackenOpenAir]

I have always been a warmonger. All posts i make are with war in mind or at least a fastest victory which normally includes war even if not a domination victory. (for 100k or space)

Also i was kinda retired from civ except for sgotm and don't want long games anymore.

Therefore, i think i will play this a quick and peacefull OCC 20k game to see the other side of the game and build all those city improvements i have never built before.

 

[Hannabir]

Hmmm, I might just follow you there, or at least stay on the one isle.

 

[Markus5]

If we are alone on the island, I think a peaceful game will be kind of fun. If we share the island, I'll use war to get control of the island, then go for peace.

 

[Karasu]

First post edited to add bonuses and equalisers.

Also noted barb activity as "regionally intense" (another favourite ).

 

[solenoozerec]

First post edited to add bonuses and equalisers.

Also noted barb activity as "regionally intense" (another favourite ).

I'll play open, predator bonuses are becoming harder than they used to be.

What is "regionally intense" barbs? Does it mean that you are placing them to make them "intennse"?

 

[Hannabir]

There will be a stack of Apache Horsemen just outside the initial view waiting to kill off your settlers and workers.

 

[Twonky]

My guess is regionally intense barbs refer to uninhabited islands packed with horseman. Otoh, what would make the extra spearguy so valueable for conquest-players? Anyone else feeling paranoia creeping in?

 

[namliaM]

I just simply hope I can get the time in for this one... I was able to get up to QSC only (and didnt even submitt that) in 13...

 

[solenoozerec]

There will be a stack of Apache Horsemen just outside the initial view waiting to kill off your settlers and workers.

With 80% of water and such barbs, it is safe to assume that we are along on this island. Otherwise why to put such barbs there?
We are along, but it does not mean tha we can forget about early millitary.
Yet my first build after a granary will be worker unless I see barb activity before that. A good feature of barbs is that they do not destroy cities.

 

[WetSawdustDemon]

Okay, I’m not entirely sure about this but the Predator handicap looks a lot like an advantage to me. Those extra Curraghs will be used only for making contacts, which speeds up the rate of research because of the increased trading both for the AI and the human player. So anyone going for a tech related victory would be silly not to choose Predator, as you want as fast a tech pace as you can get. Also anyone building the Great Library would really benefit from this.

Wet

 

[Jove]

research towards The Republic is promoted by early growth, not by collecting early pennies.

Collecting early pennies is exactly what I want to do. I checked CivAssist- 13 AA techs cost less than 100 beakers. Many are less than 50. Construction costs most at about 225. If I can grab just a little more here and there, it could mean a turn or two faster research. But it can't be done at the cost of early growth, I see what you mean there. I still think the cow is too good to pass up- irrigating it first while we're at size 1 gives a boost.
Then like Klarius said. You're right, each chop opens essentially a double-bonus grassland. Let's stay at the max growth the whole time, work a bg a turn or two if we need to.

There are already two Hills in sight. What's so special about Hill equivalents!?

I guess I'm thinking about two things at once here. To me it looks like London in a GA in Republic in the start position could generate 30 shields/turn if the forests were left alone and the hills mined, and everything else developed. Say the GA is tripped off when Republic is reached by the Colossus, then research Map Making at max and build the Lighthouse in 7 turns. Then chop. Of course you have to want the wonders more than the science if you go that way. Or is there a settler pump location to the south...? Which leads right back into your strategy.... so... Would the early sacrifice be worth the value of the Colossus later? I dunno... And sure, maybe it's beegees under the forests, but c'mon, Karasu?

And again, I think the Furs give us The Republic faster than do the Beegees.

I can't argue with that.

 

[Karasu]

Yes, "regionally intense" means that some areas of the map feature higher than average barb density. Where and how much, I cannot say.

The Spearmen is both meant to give some for peace of mind to Conquest players, and to plant the seeds of paranoia of course...

The tiles underneath forest are random grassland, which may or may not be bonus: I haven't edited them.



There are two interesting points here about the predator equaliser, which appears as either "more difficult" or "an advantage".
My personal opinion is that it should represent both, that is provide an advantage for those who can overcome the extra challenge. I hope that it works this way -it is hard sometimes to provide for this and keep the game balance. I went to some extensive testing for this map, and hopefully I haven't screwed it completely

Of course, different opinions are welcome. And if the feedback for this approach is largely negative, it will be changed in future games.

 

[Più Freddo]

Okay, I’m not entirely sure about this but the Predator handicap looks a lot like an advantage to me.

Except it makes you miss the sling-shot.

 

[solenoozerec]

I do not think that predators will miss the sling-shot if AI will start earlier trading. The chances of the slingshot are so high in this game, that I doubdt that we can miss it if going there ASAP.
I also agree that earlier trading in predator class may help AI to research faster. But since I am going to domination (stubborn like a wall ), I do not see how predator class may help me in that.

 

[eldar]

Re: giving the AIs curraghs.

All well and good - but will they actually use them? I've seen AIs build them before, only to leave them "in port" until they get Map Making and can upgrade.

 

[WetSawdustDemon]

Più Freddo: “Except it makes you miss the sling-shot.”

Maybe you’re right, I can’t say I know enough about AI research habits to tell if that’s a certainly. But the fact remains the global research rate will be faster for predator players, with or without the slingshot, the result of that is an earlier finish date for Diplomatic and Space Race victories.

Karasu: “My personal opinion is that it should represent both, that is provide an advantage for those who can overcome the extra challenge.”

I see, I don’t know why, but I’d always thought that the Predator option was purely for players who wanted a harder game. I suppose in reality it’s more akin to taking a gamble that you’ll be good enough to reap the rewards of stronger AI players. Anyway the last thing I want is to make you folks to change the rules, you have them this way because that’s how you like them .

Anyway, back on topic, I was thinking about the forest furs tiles, and in a republic you get one food and three shields, whereas if you chop and mine em you get two food and two shields (possibly three with bonus grasslands) and if you’re really want more shields later, you can just mine the plains tiles instead of irrigating them. So there’s really no long-term benefit of not chopping the forests.

As for my plans, currently I’m moving my settler two tiles east (thanks for that idea Redbad ) and then building a settler to go back to the start position, and I think I’ll somewhat waste my golden age by building the Colossus, as the extra gold we get from that will have a lasting benefit for most of the game.

Wet

 

[Karasu]

@Eldar, yes they use them, at least in this case.
Strange enough, in all tests I made they never built a single curragh, on the other hand.

 

[namliaM]

Well that does imply that the AIs are close enough to travel 'savely' from one island to another with a curragh. Thus no suicide curraghs....

 

[socralynnek]

it might mean that the AIs are close together, but not that we are close enough without suicide curraghs.

 

[Karasu]

Speculation is the beauty of pre-game threads...