COTM 17 - Pre-game Discussion

[Karasu]

Very very "pre-" right now... as I haven't got any pictures with me today.

Still, the weekend is coming, and I have taken Monday off (I'm relocating from somewhere south to somewhere 2000 km north... ).
But I couldn't leave you without anything until the 27th, could I?

So, although still a bit work in progress, here comes the preliminary pre-game thread...


This month we taking one step up with the difficulty level, going to Emperor with another Continents map (variations...).

Civ: I had Aztecs in mind, but we have just seen them in the GotM.
So I though Egypt -haven't played them in a while- but this map wasn't that good for Chariots...
So I thought Greece, maybe we can give Spaceship seekers a better chance this month, but then -another defensive early UU...
So I thought -well, why not- the Celts! mind you, I might still change it at the very last minute...

Map: Standard
Landform: Continents (again, but you'd be surprised at the variety of map layouts I am getting from the editor with these settings ).
Temperature: Temperate
Climate: Normal
Geology: 5 Billion years
Water: 70%

Difficulty: Emperor
Rivals: Seven (pre-selected)
Barbarians: roaming

Starting position:

 

[MeteorPunch]

A game with the Celts sounds good. They haven't been used in ages (GOTM18).

 

[Redbad]

And even then they weren't quite the same (militaristic then, agricultural now)

Hmmm,

Agri gives city growth every 7 turns. With an irrigated wine even growth every 5 turns. Can make a 6-turner SF in despotism or even a 4-turner in Republic (with a couple of extra bg's that is).

Speaking of Republic: missing the slingshot with Shaka still hurts. Would't like that happen with Brennus, and now it's Emporer level even. So hope Karasu didn't exile the Alpha-civs to the other continent this time.

Thinking of trying the spaceship again. I suppose that using the cheap temple to enable an extra working citizen is advantagious in Republic. 2 Coins commerce from extra citizen can be used for 1 coin upkeep and 1 coin research. Or am I simplyfying things a little too much now?

The Pyramids are overwhelming powerfull. They give an GA by themselves alone, and an agri civ will expand as rabbits in Australia.
Still, I don't think I'll try to build them: so much shields early on and one can easily be outbuild by an AI on emporer.

Our UU is expensive to build but extremely powerful. The first thing better would be a knight. I don't know how I'll fit them in into my plans. Upgrading them from warriors would bankrupt my research. Maybe I just have to build them.

 

[Redbad]

So I though Egypt -haven't played them in a while- but this map wasn't that good for Chariots...

I don't think I like this remark particularly. Chariots can't ride volcano's, mountains, jungle and marsh. The map is 5 billion years, so the amount of volcano's and mountains should be low. That leaves jungle and marsh. Shaka had the same problem .

 

[IronKnight]

I read a post entitled Gallic Swords which gave me a great starting idea. Here's the link:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=126527

Thanks to Moonsinger's post, I have my opening strategy. Set science to minimum research. Concentrate on Bronze Working, then Iron Working. Possibly trading for Bronze Working depending on the starting Civs. Meanwhile work on building and expanding your empire. For units, build Warriors. With all the gold you generate at minimum research, you should be able to upgrade many warriors. You will then learn the rest of the techs thru "aggresive negotiations" with your Gallic Swordsmen.

I love the Gallic Swordsmen! The extry movement makes them quick to mobilize & attack. Fewer die in battle with the retreat option. A 3 attack is great up thru the middle of the Middle Ages. A 2 defense isn't bad either.

I can't wait!

 

[Obormot]

Our UU is expensive to build but extremely powerful. The first thing better would be a knight.

IMHO celtic UU is better then a knight because it is much cheaper and only by a notch less powerfull.

Thanks to Moonsinger's post, I have my opening strategy. Set science to minimum research. Concentrate on Bronze Working, then Iron Working. Possibly trading for Bronze Working depending on the starting Civs. Meanwhile work on building and expanding your empire. For units, build Warriors. With all the gold you generate at minimum research, you should be able to upgrade many warriors. You will then learn the rest of the techs thru "aggresive negotiations" with your Gallic Swordsmen.

I think it makes sense to do the slingshot anyway, you will have more money for upgrades in the long term, you get rid of the tile penalty and you can gift republic to AI before attacking

 

[killerkid]

Celts. Should be fun. Unless it's like Zulu game and no iron (Zulu wanted horses for quick domination to go with imps.) Probably go for domination or 20K. After all Celts are religious. Cheap temples, cathedrals,etc. BG sounds good for early production. As Shaka, NO BGs at all by starting spot!! Sounds like a COTM I'll play.

 

[DBear]

Hmmm, Celts, huh? Sounds good...

 

[Jove]

Welcome to the forum, Killerkid. Good luck!

So many salient points made already! I'm tempted to go military, but also drawn toward a Conquests 100k game. For 100k, the pyramids might not be so bad to build ourselves. Not really for the culture, but just to make sure it doesn't end up on the other continent, which I'm somehow quite sure it will otherwise. For a military game, maybe not, agri is already a dynamo trait, and 400 shields right at the start would certainly be better spent some other way.

So I though Egypt -haven't played them in a while- but this map wasn't that good for Chariots

Landform: Continents (again, but you'd be surprised at the variety of map layouts I am getting from the editor with these settings ).

I like the texty pre-game introduction. In some ways it seems we're getting more information than usual...

The first comment implies that this map is good for the Gauls. That is, at least we'll have iron. I bet Redbad is right that the terrain is the issue.

The second comment implies (to me of course) that the thing is continents in name only. Maybe a wormy pangaea, or maybe a continenty archipelago. Given just this much, I won't be building the Lighthouse. 70% water, yeah yeah, I don't care!

And wines. Early lux are great. I may just get my whip out this time

 

[killerkid]

Thanks Jove. You might be right about 100K. Celts are agri so they'll grow faster, so more whipping. It also depends how many rivals are on continent and how much land there is. Thanks for reminding me about the iron and 5 bil year land. If I go for 100K you would have a WAY earlier finish date than me. I've never played a 100K game before. In fact even though I've been playing civ for 2 years, I've never played diplo or 100K. Good luck to you!

 

[Own]

Anyone looking to repeat SirPleb's spotlight?

I bet the best conquest/domination date will be 300 AD.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Anyone looking to repeat SirPleb's spotlight?

I bet the best conquest/domination date will be 300 AD.

Well, I'll be going for conquest until I get a FF for it. I love the Celts, but so do many other people, so I think there will be lots of competition this time.

 

[Redbad]

I love the Gallic Swordsmen! The extry movement makes them quick to mobilize & attack. Fewer die in battle with the retreat option. A 3 attack is great up thru the middle of the Middle Ages. A 2 defense isn't bad either.

I can't wait!

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that conquest will be the most fun. So no space this time and let us see what civving Moonsinger style will bring us.

 

[Redbad]

Doing some test starts I noticed that one only gets the extra food from citycenter when building on fresh water (river, lake). I didn't say in the ingame civeclopedia, so I'm a little puzzled here

 

[kojimanard]

Doing some test starts I noticed that one only gets the extra food from citycenter when building on fresh water (river, lake). I didn't say in the ingame civeclopedia, so I'm a little puzzled here

I found this description of the agricultural trait (which I believe is right):
Agricultural – Provides one bonus food in the city square in all governments except despotism. In despotism, the bonus food only appears if the city is by fresh water. Half-price aqueduct, hospital, solar plant, hydro plant.

 

[IronKnight]

I think it makes sense to do the slingshot anyway, you will have more money for upgrades in the long term, you get rid of the tile penalty and you can gift republic to AI before attacking

The slingshot is a good idea. However, at Emperor level I'm not sure if I'll be able to research fast enough and be the first to Philosophy. Especially since the Celts don't start with Alphabet. I like my chances a little better with the Gallic Swordsmen. There is also another advantage to building a lot of Warriors. The more military you have, the less likely it is that the aggressive Emperor AI will attack you!

I don't plan to do any research after Iron Working. One of my obvious targets will be the owner of the Great Library. Somebody mentioned the potential lack of resources. If that's the case, then I'm screwed! My backup plan will be to use the religous trait and build some culture.

 

[Markus5]

I played a test game with some interesting results. I started with a strategy of building only warriors, settlers and workers. Towns got barracks and temples are the only improvements. I researched straight to get a Repulbic slingshot. Typical. But, I made a mistake and researched to Philo first, so I needed to choose a free tech that wasn't Republic. Literature. Started the GrLib in my town with the most potential production and joined some workers to it. I researched Code of Laws at top speed. Then, I set research to minimum for Republic. After the revolution, I had the GrLib, tech parity, 1800g, 10 GSwords, and lots of warriors to upgrade. And, I was still the first to Republic. In short order, I had a stack of 20 GSwords and a very well-defended Republic. When the Golden Age was triggered, I had 20 turns of military production and a very nice expansion. The Aztecs were pushed back to the other side of the northern desert. The Chinese were pushed back to the eastern isthmus. And Carthage was exiled to a pair of islands.

The only problem was that I couldn't make early enough contact with the scientific civs on the other continent.

 

[Markus5]

One other odd thing. I upgraded some GSwords to M Infantry, and was charged 0g. Bug?

 

[denyd]

No bug - they cost the same to build. what you're trading is attack of 3 for a 4 and speed of 2 to 1. Alot of people (though not me) prefer the speed to the extra attack point and do not upgrade (they are also mad when they can't build GS any longer).

 

[Jove]

You can build the GS as long as you like, up to the point you trigger a Golden Age. I don't know if that trick will be much use with this civ though...