Could Communism have worked?

[SGI Butch]

Read Animal Farm. The author lived during communism. It is about how an animal farm is taken over by animals and how the pigs then take it over under a communisty dictatorship. It shows excactly why communism doesn't work.

#1 reason: It cannot be done without oppresing the people, and relies on patriotism

 

[Cunobelin]

I read that book its absolutely excellent although I dont think Orwell ever lived in a communist country and thats why certain Communist officials were amazed at his understanding of the intricacies of the communist system

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

The central lesson of Animal House is summed up nicely by the Who in "Won't Get Fooled Again"--- "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"...

 

[HollandPTW]

Communist is a great idee but the Soviet en china doesnt follow the idee of karl Marx (mayby China leaders should read das Kapital)

 

[Shady]

In news today, Communism has just been successfully implemented.

We have just received an update...hell has frozen over.

 

[Sayounara]

Capitalism does Rock (New Industries) but has too little security too meet the demands of the helpless.

Communism would only work with strong culture (happy citizens & minimimal corruption) and well-educated work-force. It also needs a truely honest, loving (litsening), and moral-full (but not stupid) president.

 

[Suppersalmon]

communisum wasnt designed for a country like russia it was more based upon the Britan of Marx's time and was surposed to take 1000+ years to come to completion not in a year or so like russia

 

[klazlo]

Originally posted by Sayounara
It also needs a truely honest, loving (litsening), and moral-full (but not stupid) president.

I guess, capitalism also needs it...

 

[onejayhawk]

Anything can be made to work, provided the basic forces have some outlet for their needs. Everyone has a need for food, shelter, social interaction, procreation and related sexual relief, and entertainment. There is no reason why Commununism cannot provide all of those.

However, it has historically worked when access to markets was severely restricted by outside forces. For Example Mao's army during the march to the sea was far closer to the ideal of communism than his government in Peking. One other example is the Christian cells in the catacombs.Communism requires a higher goal for which the participants are willing to submerge their selfish impulses. Such conditions tend to be ephemeral.

J

 

[Crimson Sunrise]

Originally posted by gael

Ants seem to like it though.

Ants are fascist, aren't they?

I think you'd have to change human nature for communism to work. And that's not going to happen any time soon. Perhaps in a world with no capitalism, communism would have survived, but it wasn't competitive.

 

[Thadlerian]

I think the best answer to this question is another question: Is there anything that would work better than Communism?

and

Do we have any societies on the face of the Earth today that really work as intended?

 

[NewDestroyer]

communism works just look at a nunary.

 

[Souron]

Communism has three problems:

1. fall of dictatorship
2. Worldly Communism
3. hardworking people
   [/list=1]
   It is nessisary as written in the Communist Menifesta it is nessisary for comunism to start out as a dictatership, enforce the comunism then break into a locolized gov't system (details I am not shore about. for this it is nessisary to have an idealistic ruler (perhalps anouther Lenin charicter). Most dictators would not wish however to give up there power.
   
   Communism failed becouse Capitalism succseaded. If people are given the choice of an other economic system there is (or was) the risk people will chose this other sosiaty becouse it offers a chance at somthing better, despite the risks (as are present in capitalism and feudelism -- aplies to nobles only). The Giverproves that there must be no "elsewere" where life might be better. So it is thus nessary for communist nations to conquer the world (a not so cold Cold War w/ the USSR winning)
   
   One major reason why communism was more succesful in china than the USSR is becouse asian-chinease ideals value hard work more (there are other great reasons but thats not the point). People must whant to work inorder to work. capitalism offers positive reinforcement as a reason; feudalism offers negitive reinforcment. However communism offers none. the solution must thus be in a religus (or simular) ideal into working hard. this does not have to be an actual fear of hell, but can be a simple brain washing. eg. "the perpose of life is to work to better the community.
   
   So solve these problemes and Communism succeeds - until alians interfeare. this is "posible" but not in the current state of the world.
   
   the world may be communits but still function as individual comunist city-wide communities (or perhalps just have touns).
   
   
   other notes
   -to have hardworking people is hard
   -is the federation in star teck communist? it works?
   -comunism is made of town-wide communites, not a centralized gov't
   -communism can be unproductive on the large scale.
   -people must support the communism if it is to work
   -setting in ideals takes a long time
   -capitalism does not rock
   -priliminary dictatorship and thus oppression are key. the more oppression the faster things get done(eg. Stalin vs. Lenin)

 

[Chairman Yang]

Wheres the "communism rocks!" option!?

 

[shak]

Communism will never work on the large scale because people need to have things beyond the basics. Just because you have a job, an education or a place to live does not mean you are fulfilled.

Most people need to be more, have more and see more. It just the way we are wired.

The folks who live in kibbutzes (or other small scale communist communities) are happy because they have the choice to live there. If they were forced to live there then they may not like it because they had no say in living there.

 

[Chairman Yang]

*Chairman Yang holds his hands over his ears to this entire thread and humms the internationale"

 

[Thadlerian]

I keep noticing how all excuses for saying 'communism wouldn't work' is based on a very new and _very_ Western image. The people who are more, have got more, and have seen more, represent a microscopical part of any Western society. The majority of the population of the world, I would say 95% or more, know about no existence but constant hard work. If you were one of them, you wouldn't have a PC capable of being online, or running Civ3. And if you had, you would have no time off to use it.

It's hypocritical for people whose life is based on other people's hard work to talk about how socialism would fail because of what applies to only the rich/middle class 5-10% of the world population.

By the way, Russia ceased being a communist regime in 1921, when Lenin opened for limited capitalism, due to famine caused by crop failures (it's a cold place) and war. So don't talk to us about Stalin

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Thadlerian, that was a very intelligent post on the subject

I wonder if Communism will return in a new form in the new Middle East. We could sure use an easy PC way of getting those sneakers made...

 

[Chairman Yang]

Originally posted by Thadlerian

By the way, Russia ceased being a communist regime in 1921, when Lenin opened for limited capitalism, due to famine caused by crop failures (it's a cold place) and war. So don't talk to us about Stalin

In that respect, Russia was never a communist regime, so it technically never ceased being it, since up til 1921 the provisional government was in power.

I agree completely that people here have a very limited view on communism based on their own conditions and "class".
I would also like to ask you if one would hypothetically be allowed to call you "comrade", or if you perhaps doesnt want to categorize yourself in that way?

@Bargash (yes, I cant let it go!)
Im sure your honest and fairplaying american corporations will find plenty of willing (and cheap) workforce once Iraq is "liberated".

 

[meldor]

Communism and Free Market both have the same problem. They are ideals that are strived for by imperfect humans. As imperfect humans we have flaws that make the attainment of any pure system impossible.

Let us look at some of the issues (IMO) of communism and why they are lacking.

1) People have a natural drive to improve themselves and their condition. This is both a shared drive and an individual drive. Communism attempts to supress the later while raising the former. Only the society as a whole can advance. The individual only improves his personal lot by improving everyone elses lot. However, our individual drive to improve our personal condition can not be supressed. If I can grow enough food to feed myself and my family really well, I will most likely prefer to keep a lion's share of that food and only offer the lesser goods to others.

2) True communism can not sustain a technologically based society. There is no reason to improve mass production items. There is no difference in the position of an inventor and a shoemaker. The inventor has no reward in attempting to mass produce anything new. There is no drive to improve something nor is there the means. The inventor will still produce a prototype and use it personally, but to mass produce somthing takes a lot of planning, materials, and time. To sustain these efforts without capital or central planning would be impossible at best.

3) Man is by his very nature competitive in everything. We strive to best each other in anyway possible (the main reason a lot of people post in OT). This is very closely related to 1), but it extends way beyond that. Most of us accelerate if a car tries to pass ours, even if we don't realize it. We even compete with ourselves, trying to best our own times or scores. We want to know who can climb higher, faster, long. etc. If their are two people building barns, they will try to outdo each other. If their are two towns building barns each town will try to outdo the other. The same applies to whatever group size you chose. This natural drive would have to be stiffled fo communism to work.

Don't get me wrong, a totally free market has major flaws as well. Corporations are basically amoral. They have no desire to work for the good of man except where there is a sustianible profit.